This would also imply the cabin heater could be used to augment the pack heater. That doesn't seem to happen either.
Someone will just have to dismantle their car.
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This would also imply the cabin heater could be used to augment the pack heater. That doesn't seem to happen either.
Someone will just have to dismantle their car.
green1
Active Member
That would be consistent with statements that Tesla has made in the past about how things work.
ThosEM
Space Weatherman
I think it actually implies that the cabin and battery resistance heaters are coupled but needn't be, since either is more direct than the other at doing its job. There would be little point in activating the cabin heater to warm the battery, but if there is heat coming from the drive motor into the cabin, it can be shared with the battery through the exchanger.
The most remarkable thing about this system to me is that the heat pump has no reversing valve to permit it to pump heat into the cabin or the battery loops. That was my motivation for chasing down the patent. We really ought to pile on Tesla and demand that they design that feature into the car. Even the lowly LEAF has a reversing heat pump.
Unfortunately being warm and comfortable while also being efficient and preserving range in the winter are not "sexy" compared to automagically parking your Tesla badly, so I don't expect anything to happen anytime soon.
wjhepworth
Member
I noted a distinct difference between having Range Mode On or Off. With Range Mode off I was losing approximately 20-30% at temps around 5 degrees in an S70D -- higher when I had to park the car outside for lengthy periods. As soon as I turned it back on the loss was more in the 10-20% range. Makes a pretty big difference.
mknox
Well-Known Member
They haven't implemented this in the Model S. I got into a long debate with another member here about this a while back, and he convinced me otherwise. You can verify for yourself that the glycol loop does not enter the cabin and there is no liquid heater core in the car. There is only electric resistive heating in the cabin.
I drove from Toronto to Montreal round trip this weekend in this -25ºC weather (in an ICE car, I have a Model S 70D reservation). My consumption was under 10L/100km (2010 Mazda 3 Sport). I've been making mental notes on all my road trips well before even reserving my 70D. Just for reference, here are the driving distances between superchargers on this journey:
Tesla Montreal to Cornwall: 113km
Cornwall to Kingston: 177km
Kingston to Port Hope: 155km
Port Hope to Tesla Lawrence: 95km
This post has caused me to seriously re-think Supercharging spacing in Canada, based on snowy, cold, and generally unpredictable conditions just being a fact of life. We're going to need maximum spacing under 100km!
Tesla Montreal to Cornwall: 113km
Cornwall to Kingston: 177km
Kingston to Port Hope: 155km
Port Hope to Tesla Lawrence: 95km
This post has caused me to seriously re-think Supercharging spacing in Canada, based on snowy, cold, and generally unpredictable conditions just being a fact of life. We're going to need maximum spacing under 100km!
Pretty much the figure I came up with. You have a ~70 mile radius around a supercharger for travel in a P90D. You can do longer distances if you know your next stop will be a supercharger only, but it can't go to 140 miles or you have "no mans land" for off-highway travel between those two superchargers. I wasn't even counting the deep extreme cold like Montreal either.
mknox
Well-Known Member
That is my understanding as well. I ordered about a year before production and was told that they did use a kind of "heat pump" to harvest power train heat for the cabin. This was why I got into a protracted argument with the other forum member on this. Aside from expense, I also heard there just wasn't enough heat to make a dent in the cabin, and it made more sense just to circulate the heat through the battery and drive unit. Even there, the battery/drivetrain loop still needs supplemental electric heating in certain conditions.
flankspeed8
Member
Makes it even worse when you take into account a Model X that is trying to tow a rack of snowmobiles
The answer is don't, not if you plan to hit the highway. I got the pano roof because I thought I would put a roof rack on. I realize now that was a mistake.
green1
Active Member
There are a few places where Tesla stated that they did this. Seems like it's yet another of their lies... add it to the horsepower, acceleration times, timelines, battery capacities, etc.
ThosEM
Space Weatherman
Likewise, I learned to look for the patent and diagrams after such a long discussion here. What documentation did the other member provide that convinced you Tesla has not implemented its own patent?
Maybe start with the diagnostic screen that shows the implemented coolant loops in the center console.
Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
Trev Page
Member
The section on the left labelled "parallel" can switch to "series". Judging by the diagram I think series is the mode used to preheat the battery/cabin and parallel switches the battery to it's own heat/cool cycle.
It never connects to the cabin, it only connects the battery to the drivetrain and chiller.
Trev Page
Member
What I meant to say is the loop can open or close to capture cabin heater into the circuit for battery temperature management.
It can't. Coolant doesn't run to the cabin only R134A. The coolant loop is overlapped with the R134A loop, it doesn't intersect except through the chiller. Hot R134A from the cabin evaporator goes straight to the compressor and the condensors. The segment between EAC and chiller is a suction line.
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