Using Superchargers for Local Charging

ecarfan said:

So here I am, the California mod, making a post that may veer this thread off topic, but any such posts can always get moved to the existing thread about this: please don't use a local Supercharger for routine charging unless you have absolutely no way of charging at your residence. When you own an EV you will find that it is simply much more convenient, almost in every case, to charge daily at home rather than visit a Supercharger. If you are considering buying an EV for the first time, before you get the car I recommend you figure out how to charge it at your residence. You will love waking up every day to a "full tank" rather than having to go somewhere to charge the car.

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I know this... Just saying having one closer than 20+ miles would be nice...

silentsnow31802 said:

I know this... Just saying having one closer than 20+ miles would be nice...

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Personally, I'd want them to build superchargers 50+ miles away.

As a point of reference we've had a Model S for 2.5 years in the San Francisco Bay Area and have never used the closest 3 Superchargers (with the nearest only 6 miles away) but have used 6 in the 60-150 mile range. We have not done that in the altruistic belief that SCs only be used for long distance travel but cause that was most convenient with 240V charging at home.

tpoltron said:

As a point of reference we've had a Model S for 2.5 years in the San Francisco Bay Area and have never used the closest 3 Superchargers (with the nearest only 6 miles away) but have used 6 in the 60-150 mile range. We have not done that in the altruistic belief that SCs only be used for long distance travel but cause that was most convenient with 240V charging at home.

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This shows the convenience of charging at home and its superiority to having a detour to a supercharger (equating the experience to the gas station model, but worse in the sense of having to wait significantly longer). Tesla's right, superchargers are meant for long-distance travels! Which boggles the mind as to why they would build some locations in dense cities... (in the US, not in places such as China where lack of home charging is a major issue).

tpoltron said:

As a point of reference we've had a Model S for 2.5 years in the San Francisco Bay Area and have never used the closest 3 Superchargers (with the nearest only 6 miles away) but have used 6 in the 60-150 mile range. We have not done that in the altruistic belief that SCs only be used for long distance travel but cause that was most convenient with 240V charging at home.

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I had a day not long ago with 300 miles of mostly close to home errands, the last a round trip of about 170 miles. Not having a supercharger nearby meant I had to plan a meal break (and a nap...) at a HPWC to make it work. A supercharger would have simplified my schedule on that (unusually hectic) day.

I've experimented with this a bit and I find that if I charge at 3KW (about 9rmph, e.g. 240V16A) or higher overnight I usually start the day with a full (90%) charge. At 5KW (16rmph. 208V24A) I always do. 4rmph (1.4KW, 120V12A) is sometimes enough but frequently isn't.

MarcG said:

This shows the convenience of charging at home and its superiority to having a detour to a supercharger (equating the experience to the gas station model, but worse in the sense of having to wait significantly longer). Tesla's right, superchargers are meant for long-distance travels! Which boggles the mind as to why they would build some locations in dense cities... (in the US, not in places such as China where lack of home charging is a major issue).

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Keep in mind, some people live in condos, townhouses and apartments that don't offer electrical to charge their cars. Not all workplaces have EV chargers either. I agree that Superchargers are meant from trip-charging, but for those that don't have at-home facilities, I'm sure they welcome a nearby SC.

snort said:

I had a day not long ago with 300 miles of mostly close to home errands, the last a round trip of about 170 miles. Not having a supercharger nearby meant I had to plan a meal break (and a nap...) at a HPWC to make it work.

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We are fortunate to have a HPWC on a 100A circuit and dual chargers in the car so the couple times we've come home low, we could get enough charge while taking a potty break and changing for dinner to get us on the road again. As others have pointed out, the need for SCs is much higher if you don't have good charging at home. Its Tesla's mission to enable fossil-fuel-free driving for everyone but they do have to grow within their financial constraints.

Anyway, back to Napa and easing those wine country tours!

derowland said:

Keep in mind, some people live in condos, townhouses and apartments that don't offer electrical to charge their cars. Not all workplaces have EV chargers either. I agree that Superchargers are meant from trip-charging, but for those that don't have at-home facilities, I'm sure they welcome a nearby SC.

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Then don't buy the car if you can't charge it at home. It's that simple.

Jeff

derowland said:

Keep in mind, some people live in condos, townhouses and apartments that don't offer electrical to charge their cars. Not all workplaces have EV chargers either. I agree that Superchargers are meant from trip-charging, but for those that don't have at-home facilities, I'm sure they welcome a nearby SC.

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Keep in mind that many people that live in condos, townhouses and apartments work with the association to get charging where they park. They DO do that. Condos, townhouses and apartments have 220 power. Just like houses. It just takes some imagination to get it.

And how many people work a hundred miles from home. Or 50? You can't make a round trip? Sounds flimsy.

jeffro01 said:

Then don't buy the car if you can't charge it at home. It's that simple.

Jeff

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Ah, I've heard this "let them eat cake" argument before. Yes, the ideal situation is for every apartment and condo building to have chargers, but unfortunately we're not there yet. So you're saying that until that happens people who live in major cities like London, Hong Kong, NYC, should not be buying Teslas? Somehow I don't think that's Elon Musk's strategy.

roblab said:

And how many people work a hundred miles from home. Or 50? You can't make a round trip? Sounds flimsy.

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I work 73 miles from home. If I make a round trip I have an estimated 50 miles left from a p85.

Yep, ecarfan, this thread veered off topic. Forty lashes with a wet noodle for you! :smile:

jeffro01 said:

Then don't buy the car if you can't charge it at home. It's that simple.

Jeff

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Thats some total short sighted BS right there

The more EVs on the road, the better. Period.

MarcG said:

This shows the convenience of charging at home and its superiority to having a detour to a supercharger (equating the experience to the gas station model, but worse in the sense of having to wait significantly longer). Tesla's right, superchargers are meant for long-distance travels! Which boggles the mind as to why they would build some locations in dense cities... (in the US, not in places such as China where lack of home charging is a major issue).

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This may not be as big a challenge in China as some anticipate. In China, most new apartment complexes in large cities must have a minimum number of parking spaces per flat. Once sales of the apartments reach a certain density these parking spaces are sold to residents. The cost of a parking space is very high but most apartment owners will attempt to to buy at least one and sometimes more as they are an appreciating asset and would help with resale values or rentals of the apartment. The service company for the apartment complex are nearly always willing to "negotiate"/ a price for allowing you to install electric to the allotted space.

My local Tesla shop say they have people who will help deal with the service company if needed to arrange charging and have had a 90% success rate of install.

I have noticed a number of new office complex's and shopping malls and higher end hotels locally offer charging stalls for their visitors, some are HPWCs (usually at 36 amps) or generic, pay as you go stalls or a combination of the two.

Nicoletta said:

Ah, I've heard this "let them eat cake" argument before. Yes, the ideal situation is for every apartment and condo building to have chargers, but unfortunately we're not there yet. So you're saying that until that happens people who live in major cities like London, Hong Kong, NYC, should not be buying Teslas? Somehow I don't think that's Elon Musk's strategy.

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Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. If you can't charge at home, then don't buy one. Certainly, don't take up valuable SC space to charge either. Sorry, actually no I'm not sorry, but I'm tired of dealing with SCs who have locals charging hogging up the stalls for people like myself who are trying to use it for what it was intended for. Long. Distance. Travel.

Jeff

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bxr140 said:

Thats some total short sighted BS right there

The more EVs on the road, the better. Period.

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The only BS here is your reply. There is already enough of a problem with locals hogging SC spots and since there isn't a good way for Tesla to stop that, even if they could why would they as it would be a sales discourager, then I don't want people who bought a car they couldn't charge at home to be taking up precious SC spaces.

So again, if you can't charge at home, then don't buy the car.

Jeff

jeffro01 said:

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. If you can't charge at home, then don't buy one. Certainly, don't take up valuable SC space to charge either. Sorry, actually no I'm not sorry, but I'm tired of dealing with SCs who have locals charging hogging up the stalls for people like myself who are trying to use it for what it was intended for. Long. Distance. Travel.

Jeff

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The only BS here is your reply. There is already enough of a problem with locals hogging SC spots and since there isn't a good way for Tesla to stop that, even if they could why would they as it would be a sales discourager, then I don't want people who bought a car they couldn't charge at home to be taking up precious SC spaces.

So again, if you can't charge at home, then don't buy the car.

Jeff

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Jeff, haven't Tesla made it clear that those that cannot get home charging installed are welcome to use the SC for local charging? If that is the case then it seems like you have to get Tesla to change policy to be satisfied.

I'm with Jeffro01 on this one... There might be exceptions, but the idea is to have overnight or at work charging figured out for most buyers BEFORE acquiring EV. 300-mile errand days hopefully are not too frequent for most ppl (actually, I know for a fact they are not, based on statistics). Overcrowded SCs is a big issue for long distance travelers IMO and will only get worse.

Using local superchargers as a substitute for charging at home is going to suck anyway. You'll be going to the supercharger about twice as often as you'd visit the gas station in a gas car, and you'll be spending way more time for each visit. It's feasible, but it's not going to be very enjoyable. Home charging is the best solution. There may be difficulty in getting the relevant permission, but that's what needs to be worked on, not superchargers.

mikeash said:

Using local superchargers as a substitute for charging at home is going to suck anyway. You'll be going to the supercharger about twice as often as you'd visit the gas station in a gas car, and you'll be spending way more time for each visit. It's feasible, but it's not going to be very enjoyable.

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+1 :biggrin: