Review calls Tesla's Motor subpar

scottm said:

" I have a friend who spoke with EV engineers at several top companies and they all think – after having done teardowns – that the Tesla motor design is junk, completely incapable of long life under the rapid acceleration that Musk likes to promote so heavily." -- Whitney Tilson, Business Insider

http://www.businessinsider.com/whitney-tilson-on-teslas-model-x-2016-3



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Any top EV engineers out there care to speak for themselves?

Here's your chance!

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I just snorted. "I have a friend who has friends who said blah blah blah."

Yep, that passes the smell test.

They're just sour that they didn't come out with it first. Typical.

Well I spoke to over 100 Mechanical Engineers, who are all good friends of mine, and they say that the motor design is amazing.

lol

scottm said:

" I have a friend who spoke with EV engineers at several top companies and they all think – after having done teardowns – that the Tesla motor design is junk, completely incapable of long life under the rapid acceleration that Musk likes to promote so heavily." -- Whitney Tilson, Business Insider

http://www.businessinsider.com/whitney-tilson-on-teslas-model-x-2016-3



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Any top EV engineers out there care to speak for themselves?

Here's your chance!

Click to expand...

Now lets scrutinize that bold statement a bit

EV engineer - what sort of engineer is that? Is that electrical engineer working in EV industry? Or is it mechatronic engineer? Or mechanical engineer? I could go on and on, but this is the first time I heard a term EV engineer.

What exact engineering discipline is the said EV engineering referring to and how does one qualify to become EV engineer?

My thinking is that only someone not familiar with the existing engineering disciplines would use a term EV engineer as it is not precise, correct or meaningful.

Hey, not even mighty google has an answer to what an EV engineer is. There is not a single google return to a search on ev engineer. Not a single definition. The reason there is no definition of the term is because the term was coined by someone who has no understanding of what they talk about.

Of course, I can be wrong and will gladly accept correction if it comes my way. Anyone wishes to clarify what exactly is EV engineer?

Next step in the statement: EV engineers at several top companies - I am so curious which top companies employ these unclarified mysterious EV engineers.

Lets move further into so far ignorant and meaningless statement.

The teardown of Tesla motor reveals that the motor design is junk?

Gimmeabreak

The proof is in the pudding. How many motor failures were there in Tesla cars so far? I have not heard of a single motor failure in Tesla cars. If someone offers the evidence to the contrary, I will stand corrected and mightily surprised.

AC motors are vulnerable to overheating and ball bearing failures. Tesla manages the heating issues extremely well with a liquid cooling system and controlling monitors. Motors should last the life of the car.

Conflating motor reliability with drive unit reliability (or noise, to be precise) just shows speakers lack of understanding of what they talk about.

Agreed this looks like a conflation between motor and drive unit. I've never heard of a motor failure either, but there certainly have been issues with other parts of the drive units.

Having said that, the causes we know about have mostly been stupid stuff like improperly calibrated grease injectors on the assembly line, rather than any fundamental design issue.

There might be an issue with how performance has been pushed beyond the original design intent, but that's more a problem with marketing than technology.

Lets assume that they are not tech savvys - reading this story (Tesla To Replace Defective Drive Units On 1,100 Model S In Norway) and others and being a hedge fund manager who loves to go short, you will interpt it exactly the way it is presented in the article.

Before new years the stock was $250, during the last couple of weeks the stock was close to $140 - it (likely) had nothing to do with defective drive units - but if you were short in the stock, you were proven correct for whatever reason

Auzie said:

Now lets scrutinize that bold statement a bit

EV engineer - what sort of engineer is that? Is that electrical engineer working in EV industry? Or is it mechatronic engineer? Or mechanical engineer? I could go on and on, but this is the first time I heard a term EV engineer.

What exact engineering discipline is the said EV engineering referring to and how does one qualify to become EV engineer?

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When I told a friend of mine who is an electrical engineer that I got the X his first comment was that everyone at the company he works at wants one. Granted they haven't torn down an X, they just want to own one.

scottm said:

" I have a friend who spoke with EV engineers at several top companies and they all think – after having done teardowns – that the Tesla motor design is junk, completely incapable of long life under the rapid acceleration that Musk likes to promote so heavily." -- Whitney Tilson, Business Insider

http://www.businessinsider.com/whitney-tilson-on-teslas-model-x-2016-3

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Any top EV engineers out there care to speak for themselves?

Here's your chance!

Click to expand...

When Mr. Tilson gave half his article space to Anton Wahlman, one of the notorious Seeking Alpha Tesla bears (without even naming him), I lost all faith in the objectivity of that article. It was Wahlman, not Tilson - who made that tear-down comment. He's the "friend who is short Tesla stock." Anton writes nothing but hit pieces on Tesla so he can try to cover his shorts. Tilson was the notorious shorter of Lumber Liquidators when it ran into trouble about formaldehyde levels in its laminate flooring. I know it's valid to make money off negative outlooks, but it just rubs me the wrong way. I invest in companies that I think have promise; I simply avoid those that I think do not. There's already too much negativity in the world to live life hoping for someone or something to fail.

-CB

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bonnie said:

I just snorted. "I have a friend who has friends who said blah blah blah."

Yep, that passes the smell test.

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Exactly. And it wasn't even the author who said this. The statement about the friend was in the section written by Anton Wahlman ("Tilson's friend"). So it was the friend who had friends who said...

It's amazing what passes as "journalism" these days.

As a Mechanical Engineer i was a little disappointed to hear they are using conventional bearing with the drive units. Those do over time need maintenance and do fail (as i've experienced early on in my S). I was hoping for some form of friction less magnetic bearing but im sure they had their reasons other than just cost...

That guy - Anton Whalman - who made the comment is a Tesla hater, who lies all the time and makes outrageous allegations about Tesla in his many Seeking Alpha articles. He is just making up that stuff. I wouldn't pay any attention to what that guys says, and in fact there is an army of folks out there who are just making up these stories every day just to see this company fail and make big buck shorting the stock, or in some cases they are paid shills of ICE auto manufacturers and dealers.

Now that Koch brothers have publicly announced that they will kill the electric car revolution, expect to see an exponential increase of these articles and comments, and pressure from legislators

I'll just continue to drive my car to 1 million miles thank you very much.

And until someone provides analytical evidence of accelerated motor vibrations this point is moot

Whoever came up with the idea of securities lending has a lot to answer for. :wink:

ohmman said:

OT, but my take on it is that the seemingly endless supply of "content" masquerading as journalism is responsible for the dilution of quality in real journalism. Most of the time, people want to click, get their confirmation bias fix, and move on. The incentive structure has broken down for the good articles, and so they're becoming harder to find. Paying for content is one way to increase the odds of getting better pieces.. but the quality dilution even bleeds behind paywalls. The other way is to avoid clicking through to questionable content.

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Agreed. I sometimes can't resist clicking on "click bait" article titles, out of morbid fascination or plain curiosity. "7 Reasons The Model 3 Will be a Huge Success... You Won't Believe #4!" (not a real article... yet). But so many articles are written either a.) just to get clicks (and ad dollars, which many pubs share directly with the authors) and/or b.) to promote a particular agenda, be that political, personal or financial. I find my BS detector going off so much these days. But trying to correct every false assertion in what passes as a news story these days is a losing battle.

MrBoylan said:

Agreed. I sometimes can't resist clicking on "click bait" article titles, out of morbid fascination or plain curiosity. "7 Reasons The Model 3 Will be a Huge Success... You Won't Believe #4!" (not a real article... yet). But so many articles are written either a.) just to get clicks (and ad dollars, which many pubs share directly with the authors) and/or b.) to promote a particular agenda, be that political, personal or financial. I find my BS detector going off so much these days. But trying to correct every false assertion in what passes as a news story these days is a losing battle.

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There's even a name for these...."listicles." I work in digital media, and they're all the rage. I at least try to make the ones I write informative, and include some historical context.

It appears there is no end to the line of "J.B. Straubel wannabees" ...

mkjayakumar said:

That guy - Anton Whalman - who made the comment is a Tesla hater, who lies all the time and makes outrageous allegations about Tesla in his many Seeking Alpha articles. He is just making up that stuff. I wouldn't pay any attention to what that guys says, and in fact there is an army of folks out there who are just making up these stories every day just to see this company fail and make big buck shorting the stock, or in some cases they are paid shills of ICE auto manufacturers and dealers.

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So, you're saying that Anton Wahlman wants to be a Tesla Killer?

igotzzoom said:

There's even a name for these...."listicles." I work in digital media, and they're all the rage. I at least try to make the ones I write informative, and include some historical context.

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Yeah, I think I've heard that term. I write about technology, too, and should probably start employing this technique for the forces of good!