2024 Model 3 Performance Announced - Discussion thread post announcement

[LoL-Gas]

I'd wait for the inevitable issues of a new model to be ironed out.

Generally speaking it's best to get the last year of a model. Who knows, they may add in that high resolution radar in a year or so... they could also take stuff away, Tesla is odd

and with HW5 around the corner and Tesla making recent HUGE strides in FSD, It worries me that current models will be obsolete very quickly.

 

[OCR1]

Unless you mean used, they were launched "heavily discounted" since for anyone who can take advantage of the point of sale tax credit, they are cheaper than the LR version. I doubt they get much cheaper than they are now, and in fact would expect them to get more expensive. Its simply NOT SUSTAINABLE in any form for the LR to be more expensive than the P for most of the people who are going to buy this car.

They will need to either lower pricing on the LR or raise pricing on the P, to fix that. As I said before, one of those choices makes them more money and one makes them less. Unless the company is about to go under or gets extremely cash strapped, I wouldnt expect them to do the thing that makes less money.

The M3P is currently $6,250 more than the LR. We tend to think of it as being less money for those of us who are eligible for the $7,500 tax incentive. However, while it is less expensive for us, Tesla still recoups the entire $6,250 in extra revenue once it collects the $7,500 back from the government. This allows them to price the car just a hair under the $55K cap and still be eligible for the credit.

I don’t see Tesla raising the price above $55K and losing the $7,500 government handout. I have a hard time believing it cost Tesla $6,250 more to produce the P over the LR. I think the P is still the most profitable M3 variant for them once they collect back the $7,500 credit.

So as long as the government holds the sedan cap at $55K I think Tesla’s hands are tied. M3P sales would likely plummet if they raised the price above $55K and took the tax credit away. The most they could increase the price at this point would be $1K, which would limit the tax credit to gray/black models only.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Unless demand is high and production isn’t keeping up which is likely to be the case as long as the Performance variant is less money than the Long Range.

This is obviously an opinion, but with interest rates as they are I don’t think low production and high demand will be the issue. Most people live on monthly payments anyways. Once the hype of this release dies down, macroeconomic conditions don’t really project any meaningful sustained demand. It’s more likely they drop the LR price back to $45,990 (or less), which was the price at release after they catch up on the “hype” orders. I think around December is when that happens for the year end push that they will almost certainly need for numbers. There is only excess demand right now due to hype and a botched Fremont production ramp up, all short term issues.

 

[Jeremy3292]

The M3P is currently $6,250 more than the LR. We tend to think of it as being less money for those of us who are eligible for the $7,500 tax incentive. However, while it is less expensive for us, Tesla still recoups the entire $6,250 in extra revenue once it collects the $7,500 back from the government. This allows them to price the car just a hair under the $55K cap and still be eligible for the credit.

I don’t see Tesla raising the price above $55K and losing the $7,500 government handout. I have a hard time believing it cost Tesla $6,250 more to produce the P over the LR. I think the P is still the most profitable M3 variant for them once they collect back the $7,500 credit.

So as long as the government holds the sedan cap at $55K I think Tesla’s hands are tied. M3P sales would likely plummet if they raised the price above $55K and took the tax credit away. The most they could increase the price at this point would be $1K, which would limit the tax credit to gray/black models only.

Agree 100%. Tesla is capitalizing on the demand and hype of the new Highland and P trim releases. If they raise the P trim over $55k, demand evaporates instantaneously. For a real world example, I myself won’t buy one then lol. The LR price will drop for sure also. It’s $1,750 higher now than at release. Tesla always is a big player in classic supply & demand economics. It’s been their calling card for as long as I can remember. Set a selling price, if demand comes in high, raise it immediately, if demand wanes, lower price.

 

[White_Walker]

I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised when they actually put a Dragy on it without any passengers. I think Tesla has sandbagged that 0-60 mph time a bit. With a fully optimized battery I believe this car will be capable of running the 2.9 time without rollout subtracted.

Adding 16% max torque to the rear motor is very significant. That is something like a 10% overall improvement. That is more than a .2 second difference.

View attachment 1042685

Anyone actually interested in what these facts translate into? It's well know the prior M3P easily makes 550hp.

Now add 22% and 32% to 550hp = 671hp continuous and 726hp peak. Now obviously pure speculation however I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised by the 1/4 mile times.

 

[brianman]

The M3P is currently $6,250 more than the LR. We tend to think of it as being less money for those of us who are eligible for the $7,500 tax incentive. However, while it is less expensive for us, Tesla still recoups the entire $6,250 in extra revenue once it collects the $7,500 back from the government. This allows them to price the car just a hair under the $55K cap and still be eligible for the credit.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but doesn't that mean they should focus on meeting all demand for $54.9k cars that they can? If so, it seems odd to have pushed the red paint above 55k such that a number of buyers either buy the lower priced combos or skip buying altogether.

 

[cptnslo]

Anyone actually interested in what these facts translate into? It's well know the prior M3P easily makes 550hp.

Now add 22% and 32% to 550hp = 671hp continuous and 726hp peak. Now obviously pure speculation however I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised by the 1/4 mile times.

lol we’re all pretty positive it’s not MS power levels

 

[brianman]

lol we’re all pretty positive it’s not MS power levels

Might want to be more specific. Pretty sure it beats a 2012 P85.

 

[cptnslo]

Might want to be more specific. Pretty sure it beats a 2012 P85.

Haha refresh MS lol

 

[Jeremy3292]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but doesn't that mean they should focus on meeting all demand for $54.9k cars that they can? If so, it seems odd to have pushed the red paint above 55k such that a number of buyers either buy the lower priced combos or skip buying altogether.

They dropped the black color price $500 and the price of white seats $500 after raising the base price $1,000, so it seems they are doing that. You need to remember the actual cost of producing the cars also. Like ultra red is an expensive paint option bc it costs Tesla more money to produce it. So it may not be worth it to Tesla to include that one option under the $55k cap. I would also wager Tesla saw a lot of stealth gray & black seat orders at $52,990 so they bumped it up $1k to make higher margin bc demand for it is high right now. This also can be anecdotally corroborated in the fact that you used to see a ton of white M3/MY on the roads bc it was a free color. Now all I see is MSM (stealth gray) bc it is the free color. Not as many people pay the extra $$$ for color as I think we think people do. Lots of people out there don’t care and just want the free color, whatever it is.

 

[JezzaE]

This is obviously an opinion, but with interest rates as they are I don’t think low production and high demand will be the issue. Most people live on monthly payments anyways. Once the hype of this release dies down, macroeconomic conditions don’t really project any meaningful sustained demand. It’s more likely they drop the LR price back to $45,990 (or less), which was the price at release after they catch up on the “hype” orders. I think around December is when that happens for the year end push that they will almost certainly need for numbers. There is only excess demand right now due to hype and a botched Fremont production ramp up, all short term issues.

It’s all opinions and wishful thinking with the lot of us I’m afraid

 

[Jeremy3292]

It’s all opinions and wishful thinking with the lot of us I’m afraid

For sure, but there is some method to the madness when it comes to pricing

 

[JezzaE]

For sure, but there is some method to the madness when it comes to pricing

Agreed, Tesla isn’t afraid to have it on full display either which spins heads because it’s always been done through the smoke and mirrors of dealers.

 

[Ultron]

I bought my current model 3 per in june 2019 and I got $3750 fed tax credit. Would that affect me receiving a full $7,500 now if I traded it in on a new one?

 

[P-Lo801]

I bought my current model 3 per in june 2019 and I got $3750 fed tax credit. Would that affect me receiving a full $7,500 now if I traded it in on a new one?

The previous tax credit offered has no bearing on this current one. The only factor is whether or not you meet the income limit caps and have enough of a tax liability.

 

[arkhos]

I bought my current model 3 per in june 2019 and I got $3750 fed tax credit. Would that affect me receiving a full $7,500 now if I traded it in on a new one?

I don't think it does - I think you can make use of the tax credit a set number of times (2 I believe?) each calendar year. I thought I read that last month.

 

[OCR1]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but doesn't that mean they should focus on meeting all demand for $54.9k cars that they can? If so, it seems odd to have pushed the red paint above 55k such that a number of buyers either buy the lower priced combos or skip buying altogether.

They are just trying to shift demand to other colors by making red ineligible. Red cost more to produce so there’s no reason for them to give up margin when they can sell just as many other colors right now.

 

[Barbutza]

Issue: can’t make enough Panasonic batteries at Nevada (USA).

Business decision: use most of them in Model Y (tax credit) as it is the best seller.

Result: M3P differences between regions. Model Y demand tanks, too many Model Y available for sale.

I am confused as to why they can’t just manufacture a battery with the same performance in China/Germany though. Is Nevada manufacturing really that much more advanced?

@eivissa

NCA batteries used in US come from the Panasonic factory nearby.
In China they use NMC batteries from LG and LFP batteries from LG and BYD afaik.
I guess the decision is more about cost than anything else, for cars produced in China they don't want to add to the cost by importing packs from Japan (older M3Ps still had Panasonic NCA batteries). Unless they change the strategy or Panasonic builds a factory near Shanghai I don't see how that will change.
NMC has some advantages over NCA, but not in the performance or charging areas, both arguably important for an M3P trim.

 

[Jeremy3292]

NCA batteries used in US come from the Panasonic factory nearby.
In China they use NMC batteries from LG and LFP batteries from LG and BYD afaik.
I guess the decision is more about cost than anything else, for cars produced in China they don't want to add to the cost by importing packs from Japan (older M3Ps still had Panasonic NCA batteries). Unless they change the strategy or Panasonic builds a factory near Shanghai I don't see how that will change.
NMC has some advantages over NCA, but not in the performance or charging areas, both arguably important for an M3P trim.

So LG or BYD can’t make a good NCA battery like Panasonic? That was my question/point.

 

[selby]

This is obviously an opinion, but with interest rates as they are I don’t think low production and high demand will be the issue. Most people live on monthly payments anyways. Once the hype of this release dies down, macroeconomic conditions don’t really project any meaningful sustained demand. It’s more likely they drop the LR price back to $45,990 (or less), which was the price at release after they catch up on the “hype” orders. I think around December is when that happens for the year end push that they will almost certainly need for numbers. There is only excess demand right now due to hype and a botched Fremont production ramp up, all short term issues.

The interest rates right now are crazy. Making me second guess my order. The lowest I have been able to find is 4.95% which is better than Tesla’s advertised rate of 6.39%. It’s painful to see the amount of interest paid over the loan.