Yoke steering confirmed variable-ratio

[Cheburashka]

people just need to try it, if they don’t like it just buy another CAR, it’s simple

Well, I can't really afford the Plaid anyway so the best I can do is sit here and b!tch about the yoke with a bunch of strangers...

On that note, it would seem to me that it would be hard to keep your hand on the wheel especially with City Streets Beta FSD. How is one supposed to be able to take over at a moments notice when the car is making turns by itself? Easy with the round wheel since you just let the wheel slide in your hands, but in this case you'll have to keep the hands off.

 

[daktari]

Well, I can't really afford the Plaid anyway so the best I can do is sit here and b!tch about the yoke with a bunch of strangers...

On that note, it would seem to me that it would be hard to keep your hand on the wheel especially with City Streets Beta FSD. How is one supposed to be able to take over at a moments notice when the car is making turns by itself? Easy with the round wheel since you just let the wheel slide in your hands, but in this case you'll have to keep the hands off.

That is a great point.
Audi and VW here in Europe had touch sensitive wheel, with a "blended" driver/car interface. Tesla have the torque sensor, binary driver/car interface. Today, you can't hang your hand too relaxed on a Tesla, it will disengage. Changes coming maybe?

 

[whitex]

It is only intuitive to find the turn signal and horn buttons when you are holding the yoke at 9-and-3 and it's not rotated more than 90 degrees.
When you turn the yoke more than 90 degrees, suddenly the turn signal arrows point to the wrong direction and they are either on top or on the bottom. If you change your grip while turning, it gets even more messed up. Good luck finding the correct turn signal or the horn during a turn.

Funny you should mention the arrows pointing in the wrong direction. I was talking with my teenage son, who is more open to the yoke and the video game interface design, though still has some usability concerns with things like the horn or the task bar on the bottom of the MCU screen (instead of the top where it would be on the bottom of the windshield). For the blinkers, he asked, "why didn't Elon just put the blinkers on each side of the wheel, then if the wheel it turned >90 degreed (upside down) just change which button activates left and right blinker - so button on the left, regardless of wheel orientation, would always turn the left blinker (and always point left)?".

So even though Elon seems to target the car to the video game generation (who won't be able to afford it for a while), apparently he didn't bother talking with teenagers (his target market I presume) for some insights on solutions apparently obvious to those who grew up with video games.

 

[thebishop]

Looking forward to the new round wheel design with a perfectly transparent optical quality glass half on the upper half - then you can see through it instead, but still have a proper wheel.

 

[_jmk]

Yoke indeed looks cumbersome and risky, good thing I got the Sept20 LR++. No need to consider the upgrade until a regular steering is an option.

 

[Altair7]

Bingo. Classic case of an answer looking for a question.

To me, a round steering wheel is the most efficient & safest way to accomplish the required task. That's why it's been the way.

It's a lot like saying "you know what? I know round wheels & tires have been round for centuries but... What if they were square instead? How cool would that look?!" The actually doing it regardless of how horrible the function was.

Exactly so. And "blocking the instrument panel" was solved decades ago with steering wheels that tilt.

Square tires? Elon has already applied "alien teechnology" to solve that dilemma: his version will be triangular which eliminates one bump. Rumor has it the three-sided wheel will be fittingly introduced on the Model 3 in Q3 this year.

 

[David29]

People did not like the latest Corvette steering wheel as it was not "circular enough". I recall the chief engineer was not originally a fan and had to be convinced.
Change is hard and hopefully the PROs & CONs have been considered. Would it be cheaper to make?

I doubt the wheel itself is cheaper. But removal of the stalks must save a lot of money. The stalks each had some sort of mechanical/electrical interface, a switch assembly of some sort, and associated wiring. With all the controls on the wheel and some in multi-function buttons, my guess is the overall cost is reduced, as well as simplifying assembly of the steering wheel.

 

[David29]

Whether you agree or not, but the reason is quite obvious to anyone sitting in the car. You no longer have the top half of the wheel in the way of your view of the dash. I'm sure a lot of people have experienced this frustration and wish the top half of the wheel is not in the way (and in many cars, no matter how you adjust it, it's impossible to get the wheel completely out of the way; my old ICE car was like this, the steps between the adjustments does not allow a clear view of the dash). And the bottom being square makes entry easier (a lot of cars have square bottom wheels also, so Tesla is not a pioneer in this).

So it just depends on your priorities. For people that don't have to make a lot of u-turns, they may not care much about having to do a full rotation, and they'll enjoy the advantages. Personally, I like a regular wheel better (plus I have a Model 3, so I don't have a screen in front I need/want to see), but I'm not going to say there are zero advantages to the yoke steering wheel.

Personally, I have found it easy enough to adjust my Tesla steering wheel for a full view of the instrument cluster. I realize that plenty of people say they have not been able to do that. But won't the same potential exist with the yoke? There may be people who want the wheel higher or lower than it can go, and the cross piece of the yoke will still block part of their view. My guess is that there will be fewer people who find the steering "device" blocks their view, but it is unlikely to be zero.
My personal guess is that this "innovation" has nothing to do with improved visibility -- it is about reducing cost of manufacturing and assembling the car, plus putting more actions under the control of the car. Now a computer will select gears for you. I read the new owners manual, and the language for the wipers, lights, and gear selection is all emphasizing the automatic element and how you can let the car do it all, unless you want to override it. The only action that isn't automatic is actuating the turn signals, and I am sure Tesla is working towards that, too...

 

[Yanniz]

Funny you should mention the arrows pointing in the wrong direction. I was talking with my teenage son, who is more open to the yoke and the video game interface design, though still has some usability concerns with things like the horn or the task bar on the bottom of the MCU screen (instead of the top where it would be on the bottom of the windshield). For the blinkers, he asked, "why didn't Elon just put the blinkers on each side of the wheel, then if the wheel it turned >90 degreed (upside down) just change which button activates left and right blinker - so button on the left, regardless of wheel orientation, would always turn the left blinker (and always point left)?".

So even though Elon seems to target the car to the video game generation (who won't be able to afford it for a while), apparently he didn't bother talking with teenagers (his target market I presume) for some insights on solutions apparently obvious to those who grew up with video games.

I guess the question would be if you are already on 90 degree turn, why would you want to turn on the turn signal? Theoretically the signal was activated prior to starting the turn.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I guess the question would be if you are already on 90 degree turn, why would you want to turn on the turn signal? Theoretically the signal was activated prior to starting the turn.

What if you need to signal an impending lane change in the middle of a turn?

 

[Cheburashka]

I guess the question would be if you are already on 90 degree turn, why would you want to turn on the turn signal? Theoretically the signal was activated prior to starting the turn.

You'd want to signal when you are exiting a roundabout

 

[stopcrazypp]

Personally, I have found it easy enough to adjust my Tesla steering wheel for a full view of the instrument cluster. I realize that plenty of people say they have not been able to do that. But won't the same potential exist with the yoke? There may be people who want the wheel higher or lower than it can go, and the cross piece of the yoke will still block part of their view. My guess is that there will be fewer people who find the steering "device" blocks their view, but it is unlikely to be zero.
My personal guess is that this "innovation" has nothing to do with improved visibility -- it is about reducing cost of manufacturing and assembling the car, plus putting more actions under the control of the car. Now a computer will select gears for you. I read the new owners manual, and the language for the wipers, lights, and gear selection is all emphasizing the automatic element and how you can let the car do it all, unless you want to override it. The only action that isn't automatic is actuating the turn signals, and I am sure Tesla is working towards that, too...

If the move has to do with costs, I don't see how the yoke reduces costs. Yes, it does have the top section gone, but the bottom section is wider and others pointed out there are overhead costs for retesting, so I doubt there is much if any material cost savings to be had (would not be surprised it may even be more expensive due to less commonality to existing steering wheels). The move to capacitive buttons instead of stalks is independent of the decision to go with a yoke: you have can have a regular wheel and capacitive buttons also.

Also wanted to comment on the HUD idea. Yes, Tesla should get with the times and introduce a HUD, but even given that, that does not really replace the dash display. If you look at even high end cars with AR HUD, the HUD is still relatively small (even compared to the regular dash display) and the contrast seems to go down significantly in brighter conditions. HUD technology have not reached a point where it is like the sci-fi movies.

 

[Needsdecaf]

View attachment 672221
Search in the manual for "variable".

Variable ratio refers to the teeth on the rack having a different ratio at different points of the rack, most likely.

Speed sensitive refers to the assist level, not the ratio.

I'd be 99.9% sure this is actually the case. That description applies to any number of modern vehicles.

 

[Cheburashka]

Variable ratio refers to the teeth on the rack having a different ratio at different points of the rack, most likely.

Speed sensitive refers to the assist level, not the ratio.

I'd be 99.9% sure this is actually the case. That description applies to any number of modern vehicles.

Yep I agree. Variable ratio rack is pretty common.

 

[Cheburashka]

It's so weird they didn't go with steer-by-wire like most assumed they would. Makes no sense. The technology exists and the car has been delayed for a while. Looks like Tesla slapped the yoke where the steering wheel was supposed to go and called it a day.

 

[stopcrazypp]

It's so weird they didn't go with steer-by-wire like most assumed they would. Makes no sense. The technology exists and the car has been delayed for a while. Looks like Tesla slapped the yoke where the steering wheel was supposed to go and called it a day.

Steer-by-wire is still fairly uncommon and by safety regulations you are required to have a fallback to manual steering. The only steer-by-wire I'm aware of is Infiniti's and it has a manual fallback.
Infiniti Q50 steer-by-wire glitch prompts global recall

That's a bigger change that Tesla probably doesn't need to be dealing with now.

 

[Cheburashka]

Steer-by-wire is still fairly uncommon and by safety regulations you are required to have a fallback to manual steering. The only steer-by-wire I'm aware of is Infiniti's and it has a manual fallback.
Infiniti Q50 steer-by-wire glitch prompts global recall

That's a bigger change that Tesla probably doesn't need to be dealing with now.

True, Infiniti had some issues early on but I believe they figured it out.

Either way, the tech exists in a product consumers can buy.

 

[stopcrazypp]

True, Infiniti had some issues early on but I believe they figured it out.

Either way, the tech exists in a product consumers can buy.

But given it's still extremely rare, I doubt Tesla can just buy a off-the-shelf solution from a supplier, so Tesla will have to go through all the same teething issues if they decide to go this route.

Given the huge distrust in Tesla already in China due to the whole braking controversy (many people think Tesla's are "brake by wire"), going with a steer by wire setup at this juncture probably isn't wise at the moment.

 

[Luisito]

Tidbits: For those wondering on how to shift gears with no stalks, Tesla also added physical buttons on the center console just below the phone chargers that act as a backup in the event of center screen failure or those who like to manually shift using buttons.

The horn on the yoke can also sound by placing your palm similar to pressing the center horn on round steering wheels by covering over all the buttons on the right Side of the yoke.

 

[tr1sk]

If the move has to do with costs, I don't see how the yoke reduces costs. Yes, it does have the top section gone, but the bottom section is wider and others pointed out there are overhead costs for retesting, so I doubt there is much if any material cost savings to be had (would not be surprised it may even be more expensive due to less commonality to existing steering wheels). The move to capacitive buttons instead of stalks is independent of the decision to go with a yoke: you have can have a regular wheel and capacitive buttons also.

I'm sure there are decent cost savings associated with not having the stalks. Also, the stalks are a point of potential mechanical failure that is now replaced by a simple non moving button that is unlikely to fail for the life of the vehicle. I don't know about the S, but I know many 3's had malfunctioning stalks that had to be replaced to fix them. The entire steering column assembly needs to be replaced to do it, which includes both stalks + other components.