+1 - I guess it's getting evident why Volvo is going in that direction. Also could be used to warm the battery pack.
Volvo C30 Electric features range-extending climate control system [video]
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Winter Driving Experiences
- Thread starter kevincwelch
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
+1 - I guess it's getting evident why Volvo is going in that direction. Also could be used to warm the battery pack.
Volvo C30 Electric features range-extending climate control system [video]
znino
Member
Is there a temperature at which it becomes dangerous to the battery to be left just parked outside (unplugged)? Like is -30C safe for example?
I've had a Chevy Volt for a few months (and a P16,4xx reservation). I can attest to an extremely large decline in EV range in the winter, especially if you want to be comfortably warm and drive over 50mph in temps below 30f. The Volt is EPA rated 38miles and I get low twenties range (60% of range) in those conditions in New England preconditioning the battery before driving. Before I bought the volt I thought about the 60kwhr model s, but I really think to be safe 140-150miles is probably a reasonable winter range for the 85kwh model. Unless you want to drive w no heat and leave the window cracked open like many volt owners do to maximize their range.
The other interesting thing about cold is the loss of regen. Once you train yourself to be primarily a one footed driver it was a real shock to me the first time I got in on a real cold day and there was no regen. This is a heavy car and that means a lot on inertia. When you take your foot off the pedal it just keeps on going - no engine braking. At first I actually thought there was an issue - I wasn't slowing down at all! It will catch others out I'm sure. Horrible to have to use the breaks. :smile:
One other thing I have notice and wondered if others have also, namely, the rated range seems to be quite non-linear near the lower end. The other day when the temperature was just above freezing I had run the car down to 50km of rated range and had 35km left to get home. I put the car into range mode and headed out. Put the seat heater on 2 (out of 3) to keep toasty. Initially the correspondence was ~1 to 1 (km driven vs km lost on the rated range). But as I got closer to home the rated range started to drop more slowly so that I arrived home with 35 km of rated range. In the last 5 km of driving the range only went down one km or so.
One other thing I have notice and wondered if others have also, namely, the rated range seems to be quite non-linear near the lower end. The other day when the temperature was just above freezing I had run the car down to 50km of rated range and had 35km left to get home. I put the car into range mode and headed out. Put the seat heater on 2 (out of 3) to keep toasty. Initially the correspondence was ~1 to 1 (km driven vs km lost on the rated range). But as I got closer to home the rated range started to drop more slowly so that I arrived home with 35 km of rated range. In the last 5 km of driving the range only went down one km or so.
Your observations about the Volt (any EV) are correct and of course apply to the MS.
mknox
Well-Known Member
I'm likely alone on this, but would like a user-configurable option on the re-gen to move it from the accelerator to the brake. A light press on the brake (i.e. enough to activate the brake light switch) would start re-gen and further pressure would activate the standard friction brakes.
In my couple of test drives, I found the car to be quite "jerky" because my habit is to completely remove my foot from the gas and coast, with my foot covering the brake pedal ready to stop. I'm sure I could train myself not to do this, but I still drive ICE cars and I wonder about going back and forth. This would also alleviate the "panic" described above when re-gen isn't there, because the car's behavior would be more consistent with an ICE. Sure, in cold weather re-gen might not be there with the light brake pedal push, but you're already on that pedal and just have to continue pushing.
I think this would be an easy software fix. Just add another setting to the already present re-gen settings. If you don't like it, you don't have to use it.
Thats an interesting idea, but there would be a couple of issues :
1. Currently, as soon as you let go of the gas, the re-gen kicks in - but with your idea, you would immediately have to move your foot to the brake to take full advantage of regen - otherwise re-gen will only kick in when you are trying to come to a full stop in which case your real brakes would soon after kick in - and your regen will be very short lived - or - your just temporarily slowing down , but then your foot would need to be riding the brake pedal - with just the right amount of pressure so as to not trigger the real brakes
2. The pressure on your brake pedal would be inconsistent - just like how regen is inconsistent in cold weather.. the amount of pressure you put on your brakes to stop would be different in -20 weather vs +5 weather.. and i think that would play with your mind .. just as the current regen does -
i think the best solution for you ist just set your regen to low ? .. as that pretty much feels like an ICE
No, not dangerous, however the vehicle will keep the battery at a minimum level and use battery power to do that.
So while it is not dangerous, IMO, it will lessen your range.
I was parked outside, no plug, in -5f (about -20c) degree weather for 8.5 hours yesterday. Rated range was 179 miles when I parked.
When I came back, it was 101 miles. I drove home on the highway, which is a 29 mile trip. When I got home the rated range listed was 102 miles
. It was nice to see the rated range recover as I drove and the batteries warmed up.This is about as severe a case as I expect to see in MN.
Tesla states that you could lose your battery warranty if left unplugged below -30C for more than 24 hours.
No, not dangerous, however the vehicle will keep the battery at a minimum level and use battery power to do that.
So while it is not dangerous, IMO, it will lessen your range.
I was parked outside, no plug, in -5f (about -20c) degree weather for 8.5 hours yesterday. Rated range was 179 miles when I parked.
When I came back, it was 101 miles. I drove home on the highway, which is a 29 mile trip. When I got home the rated range listed was 102 miles
This is about as severe a case as I expect to see in MN.
Interresting! Tesla has claimed that the range will recover when you start driving, but some owners have reported that the range does not recover (the discussion is about wether the battery has in fact lost anything, or if the range loss is due to the temperature of the cells. ) On the other hand, a 70 mile loss in 8 hours should really not be correct.....
Wondering if it would be possible to send the Regen current to the battery heater instead of the Battery in case the pack is too cold. Wouldn't be better use of that energy. Don't understand the technicality/feasability of it so just an idea.
Maybe that's feasible. I'm pretty sure there's room for many little improvements like this.
Right now, the battery heating is what's killing it. Today (-22°C), for half of the day and starting with a warm pack in my heated garage - I had 4 battery heating bursts (as I had to stop to the restaurant, then the office, then a client, then lunch). Good news is that I have enough range for my whole day with the 85 kWh pack. But someone that would have to meet many clients would be close to 160-170 km of real range today for a standard charge.
After driving the car for a few days, I think Tesla nailed it. After you drive it for a bit, I think you'll agree. If you're driving slow enough to cause the car to 'jerk' by lifting quickly then you're driving slow enough to not use the break, that's an issue for retraining muscle memory. If on the other hand, you're driving down the freeway (or even, really over 35-40 mph), and you need to stop more quickly you completely lift, and move your foot to the brake, applying just as much additional brake as needed, the regen KEEPS WORKING even when applying the brake, it's like having two brakes.. It's really fantastic.
mknox
Well-Known Member
I actually do kind of like it based on my limited test drives, and even if I had my "wish list" option, I would probably keep it in standard re-gen mode in the summer. I was worried that in winter (slippery) conditions the re-gen might cause the rear tires to lose traction, but others have said the TC works well in these situations. Then there is the issue of re-gen not being there when you expect it. That's why I was thinking it might be a nice option to have.
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Yep, that would work. I was thinking a third setting moving re-gen to the brake would at lease still give you the option of standard re-gen except over on the brake pedal.
The Chevy Volt, via the shift lever gives you the choice of min regen (D) versus my favorite max regen (L). I know drive one pedal all the time. My brakes will last forever. The Volt driver can leave it in either D or L. Or switch back and forth.
I would love super regen as a choice. Now that would be nice.
I would love super regen as a choice. Now that would be nice.
And the Volt, unlike Tesla, has special steel rotors that don't rust. Tesla worked with Brembo to design their brakes to be optimized for an EV, but they forgot this important consideration.
Edit: I have since received conflicting information about the MS rotors so this post may be wrong about the rotor's resistance to rust.
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I haven't seen corrosion on my Model S rotors yet, and they're wallowing in salt. The Roadster's rotors would be brown the next morning.
William13
Active Member
Then I stand corrected. I was told by a technician that the MS rotors did not use an iron compound that would resist rust to any degree. In fact I asked him to check on it after hearing about the rotors being used on the Volt. He even got back to me after supposedly checking his information. Good to know.
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