Winter Driving Experiences

[Doug_G]

Doug it will be great to have your well informed opinion. Would you please test the car on something steep and slippery, perhaps a driveway to make a more controlled situation. That is where if any where the RWD non studded Model S might find its limit.

This is what today looks like (and our parking lot had been cleared once already!):

I didn't have time to "play" too much; as it was it took my 4X longer than normal to get to work.

It was pretty darn slippery, especially turning out of my neighborhood onto the main collector road, when I had to waddle through 6-8 inches of slushy snow (I didn't try raising the suspension). The TC was doing its job nicely; the car accelerated slowly but steadily.

The road surface was a little weird on the heavily traveled roads - a good thick layer of ice but it was like washboard. I had no problem at all with that, but some of the other cars were all over the road. The guy in front of me had his back kick out every time he hit the gas. The car behind me almost got rear-ended but the guy managed to steer into the other lane, barely managed to keep it on the road, then ended up beside me. I backed right off and stayed well behind him. Not getting my car pranged on its second day by some yahoo who doesn't know the term "safe following distance".

Comparing against my former AWD Infiniti G37, in terms of control and stability it is on a par. Stable and controllable. If you get going too fast on a curve it will undesteer a little, but back off the accelerator and the nose tucks in nicely. Under the worst conditions I think the acceleration is a little slower compared to AWD, but it's not like you'll be setting any land speed records. Never felt like I was going to get stuck or anything.

There's a steep curving hill on one of the routes I can take home. I'll try and go home that way tonight, see how it does.

 

[Vexar]

Winter is about the only time I ever see a 360 on a freeway (unless I'm watching the Rockford Files). Trouble is, I see dangerous moves every winter. I used to have a running joke with an ex-girlfriend that every time we would see a Ford Excursion parked, we would declare that it looks better upside-down. In a drive from Minneapolis to Chicago, I saw no fewer than three inverted Ford Excursions in the ditch.
The other chaotic car I usually see troubled with Winter is the Pontiac Grand Prix. I think that the alternator gets what (what the heck is an alternator? I may forget soon...) and the car has an electrical fault. Since the Model S is neither top-heavy nor built with electrically-sensitive parts exposed to the elements, I know it will fare better than these exemplary Detroit automobiles. Doug, thanks for sharing your specific experience. Be gentle with your charging cable in the cold, though!
random question: does the nosecone thaw out at all after driving?
Have a safe drive home, no matter how awesome the car is.

 

[celter]

No, not realy. It was pretty flat, but the snow was heavy.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

Doug,

Which tires do you have? We can't evaluate your assessment without that crucial piece of info. On snow, tires mean everything.

 

[Doug_G]

Doug,

Which tires do you have? We can't evaluate your assessment without that crucial piece of info. On snow, tires mean everything.

Pirelli

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random question: does the nosecone thaw out at all after driving?

No.

Have a safe drive home, no matter how awesome the car is.

I just went to the DMV to get my personalized plates ("N TESLA") transferred. Drove all the way in awful conditions, only to be told that they moved. (Been there since at least the 70's.)

The new location is easy walking distance from my office - literally at the end of our street. Their sign isn't up yet. :cursing::biggrin:

 

[rsquared99]

Doug - It's hard to keep up with the real world when you've been living in a Tesla bubble for so long! Congrats and good luck with the new toy.

 

[Doug_G]

Was joking with the lady at the DMV that I was lucky I got my new car before the end of the world.

Don't worry, despite the crappy weather I still enjoyed the unnecessary drive!

 

[mknox]

Since the Model S is neither top-heavy nor built with electrically-sensitive parts exposed to the elements, I know it will fare better than these exemplary Detroit automobiles.

Aren't all of the electrical components exposed to the elements? The drive inverter, motor and battery are all under the car exposed to road slush and salt. I for one am a bit anxious about how the battery connectors and the drive inverter will hold up to winter road salt. At the Tesla store the other day, I was looking at the electric parking brake which, along with it's wiring and connectors, is also fairly exposed.

 

[Doug_G]

There's a steep curving hill on one of the routes I can take home. I'll try and go home that way tonight, see how it does.

The Model S handled the hill with no trouble whatsoever - a bit anticlimactic in fact.

I ended up doing quite a bit of driving today and the conditions were, well, horrendous. The road surface varied from snow covered to deep snow to sheer ice. Dozens of accidents, lots of cars in the ditch - even one of the city's new double-decker buses! In places the snow was deep enough that my air dam was skimming. Yes they were plowing and salting but the snow was coming down fast all day.



I've now had a chance at a more thorough evaluation, and compared with my previous AWD Infiniti:

• Traction control is clearly superior. The Infiniti would really balk when the TC engaged, often hesitating for a couple of seconds. The Model S doesn't do that at all. Sometimes accelerating from a standstill the wheels would slip for a moment, then there would be a bit of a "clunk" and the car would get moving.
• Steering is on a par, perhaps even a little better.
• When accelerating on ice the back showed no tendency to kick out.
• Regenerative braking is very nice because it lets you slow down in a very controlled fashion. Also good for pulling in the nose if you start to understeer. The Infiniti simply doesn't have that!
• In deep snow acceleration was inferior to the Infiniti. Were talking deep enough that the air dam was skimming, e.g. fording a snowbank at an intersection. I suspect raising the suspension would have helped, although that takes a few seconds so you wouldn't do it all the time. AWD would very probably have helped in this situation, but I never had the feeling that the car was going to bog down. It was just a bit slow getting rolling.

 

[PureAmps]

Doug, thanks for sharing. I'm considering a Model X to replace an existing SUV I use for occasional winter driving, so I'm glad to hear it handles well and should bode well for the AWD X.

One question I have is about snow accumulation on the hood. In an ICE vehicle, the engine heat will typically prevent accumulation of significant snow/ice on the hood. Since the frunk is not heated, I'm wondering if you had any problems with snow accumulation on the hood that would impact visibility. Particularly if you are driving slow enough that the snow will not blow off on its own.

 

[darthy001]

Very interesting info Doug! Especially useful for those of us who face the potential for similar conditions 4-5months of the year!

Makes my gutfeeling from the short testdrive here seem correct since I felt the traction and stabilty control was very good. TC was in fact brilliant on the slippery roads.

 

[Mike_Schlechter]

Bummer!! But good call on installing the plug.

Making that drive in a 2005 Escape Hybrid was torture after ten days driving the S!

I found out a neighbor up here has a Volt, and is willing to let me charge off her in exchange for test drives. Oh well. Now I know for next time.

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The Model S handled the hill with no trouble whatsoever - a bit anticlimactic in fact.

I ended up doing quite a bit of driving today and the conditions were, well, horrendous.

Awesome post. Helpful and highly informative.

 

[mikevbf]

The Model S handled the hill with no trouble whatsoever - a bit anticlimactic in fact.

Thanks Doug. The one place I have fell short, AWD or not, in other cars is a particularly steep driveway with an under layer of ice. Studded tires and good driving have been about the only thing that has got me up in those specific conditions. AWD definitely helped too but not as much as the tires.

How steep would you guess the grade you climbed? How did it compare to the Roadster's climbing ability in foul weather? Other than the steep icy driveway scenario, I would have to admit that yours and others reports make me much more confident about the Model S without AWD or studded tires. Again thanks for the report. If any of you have a truly steep icy hill or driveway to test the Model S, please post your experience.

 

[ToddRLockwood]

Thanks for the report, Doug.

I live in Vermont, so I was a bit concerned when Tesla pushed up my delivery from June to February. My Model S is being delivered with summer tires. I didn't imagine I'd be ordering the 19" wheels & snow tires until next fall. I've decided to go with Dunlop performance snow tires...

DunlopSP Winter Sport 3D

My "other" car is a 2002 Audi S6 wagon with all season Continentals. Your report leads me to believe that I won't experience much loss in grip or handling. Sounds like the TC might be even better on the Model S.

That storm is just beginning to arrive here!

 

[Doug_G]

One question I have is about snow accumulation on the hood. In an ICE vehicle, the engine heat will typically prevent accumulation of significant snow/ice on the hood. Since the frunk is not heated, I'm wondering if you had any problems with snow accumulation on the hood that would impact visibility. Particularly if you are driving slow enough that the snow will not blow off on its own.

Yes, snow does not melt off the hood. I cleared it off before driving and was amused to get home and find the hood was completely white. It was, of course, only a thin layer of wet snow - the airstream would have blown more than that off. If the snow were very wet, and you were driving extremely slowly, you might get some accumulation - but it probably wouldn't go anywhere.

Around here you must clear the hood off along with the windows, before driving. Otherwise you get a "face full of snow" and it affects visibility. Also unless you're very rude you should clear off the roof, too, so you don't do that to the guy behind you.

In short, as long as you are appropriately preparing your car for the journey, there is no issue. No different from an ICE.

Thanks Doug. The one place I have fell short, AWD or not, in other cars is a particularly steep driveway with an under layer of ice. Studded tires and good driving have been about the only thing that has got me up in those specific conditions. AWD definitely helped too but not as much as the tires.

How steep would you guess the grade you climbed? How did it compare to the Roadster's climbing ability in foul weather? Other than the steep icy driveway scenario, I would have to admit that yours and others reports make me much more confident about the Model S without AWD or studded tires. Again thanks for the report. If any of you have a truly steep icy hill or driveway to test the Model S, please post your experience.

It's pretty steep. I've had previous generation RWD cars get stuck on lesser hills, especially front-engine cars that had little weight on the drive wheels. The combination of decent snow tires and a significant amount of weight on the rear makes it a non-issue. Of course we do get the rare ice storm where it is pretty insane to drive any car.

I don't normally winter drive the Roadster. Last February when I took it to the auto show in Toronto, I got caught in a major blizzard an hour before I got home. I didn't encounter any steep hills, but the Roadster handled the conditions very well. If anything I feel more confident in the Model S. My impression - based on limited experience mind you - is that the Model S turns better but the Roadster might have an edge on rear traction.

 

[mknox]

Doug, you're a brave man! I would be freaking out if I had to take my new baby out in that kind of weather literally a day after I got it! Thanks for the reports, however. It does instil confidence in Model S's winter capabilities.

How much of this to you attribute to the winter tires? I am getting mine with 19" all-seasons and have been wondering if that will be enough. I have generally used winter tires on my cars, but I've just gone with the all-seasons on my AWD Cadillac, and it has performed very well. (Having said that, Toronto area winter weather is generally a lot lighter than Ottawa!)

 

[Doug_G]

I think winter tires are an important factor for any car. That said brand-new all seasons aren't horrible; they might be okay for the wimpier Toronto winter. I have used all seasons before and find that once they get a bit worn they don't work very well. So in the end you're better off using a different set for winter anyway.

Given the torque of the Model S I'd keep a close eye on the tread depth of the rears.

 

[Brian H]

...
We're talking deep enough that the air dam was skimming, e.g. fording a snowbank at an intersection. I suspect raising the suspension would have helped, although that takes a few seconds so you wouldn't do it all the time. ...

Is it possible/sensible to drive in, say, the High position on such streets?

 

[Mayhemm]

I've decided to go with Dunlop performance snow tires...

DunlopSP Winter Sport 3D

Good choice of tire. I have the WS3D's on my '11 Audi TT and they work great. You have to be a little more vigilant in loose snow/slush, but overall you can pretty much drive like it was summer (ie: without anxiety)

 

[Seattle]

so how was snoqualmie pass driving

I'm driving my S with 19"s and the stock Eagle RS-As up to snowy Snoqualmie Pass here in Washington state tomorrow for some skiing. I'll give you a qualitative report, especially the snowy parking lot aspect - most of the rest of the trip is on plowed interstate, so I don't expect a ton of drama.

And was there some place special to park or plug in? Unlike stevens pass, I haven't heard of a charging station there.

I am also curious about how much range you burn with a day's cold winter parking.