Will the second row seats fold flat? If so, how?

[MorrisonHiker]

Even if the seats did fold flat, there's no guarantee an 8x4 sheet would fit I'm pretty sure I couldn't fit an 8x4 sheet in the Q7, even with it's folding seats..

AFAIK the only thing short of a commercial van in the EU that can do this is a Chrysler Grand Voyager (if you want to close the tailgate). With the Q7 you have the option of the roof rack at a push.

Even with my old beater Kia MPV, I have to stand them up on edge to clear the suspension turrets / wheel wells, then drive with the tailgate open

I've actually been known to take my measurements to Home Depot and have them cut up the 16 foot trim for me and drywall is easy enough to cut before loading. [emoji6] As you mentioned, if you just have a couple sheets, you can load it at an angle, standing up. The hatch glass on my current vehicle opens separately from the main hatch, allowing me to load even larger items, leave the glass open and have the item stick out the back. For bigger items or larger purchases, I'll have it delivered or rent a truck but when I know it will fit with the seats down it the hatch open, it goes home right away.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

8x4 sheet is probably not the best example. In the past year I've carried couches, tables, desks, tall cabinets, garden furniture, doors, parquet flooring, garbage, lawn movers, etc.

For many years, everything that I owned was small enough that it could be moved in my CR-V (but eventually it took more and more trips). Even when I upgraded from a futon to a queen size bed, I was able to move it myself since I bought a Select Comfort Sleep Number bed which is easy to disassemble. While a couple have posted that they rarely have their seats down, mine are rarely up as I'm always hauling stuff or driving the dogs around.

Maybe I'll just keep the CR-V and get an S instead but I really was hoping to totally get away from owning an ICE.

 

[smac]

@MorrisonHiker

Normally my strategy too

Lots of the stores here sell boards in 6x3 anyway (often called Handiboard) and ideal for loading in most large cars There's also some EU rules on manual handling that preclude some boards on the basis of weight.

But yes normally I get big stuff delivered. Even when I had a pickup it was often easier.


@Yggdrassill

Completely agree, I think it's just fair before we get a raft of threads suggesting "I'm not buying a Model X because I can't fit sheets of ply in it", to point out even if the seats could fold, it isn't a replacement for a van

I've been to garden stores and bought furniture, I've put complete bikes in the back, I've carted desks and picked up BBQs. All in the back of my S, and all needed the seats folded. This is the minimum the X needs to deliver IMO, or it doesn't deserve the "Utility" tag.

 

[ohmman]

Frankly, at $80-100K min, I can't afford to have another car, so this one would have to be able to do everything.
unfortunately I don't have a stable full of Bentleys or Land Rovers, or even Tahoes, and I'd like to not buy any more petroleum too.
No folding of 2nd row seats means I'd be driving 4 empty seats around 99% of the time.
No folding flat = switch to S85D or S90D for me.

Lucy, on the positive side, you'll love your MS if you wind up getting one. The seats fold flat and it's a true utility vehicle.

Nobody seems to have mentioned that not having the seats fold flat is a bit more severe due to the fact that the falcon wings don't allow roof mounting. Long items like multiple surfboards, for instance, could normally be thrown inside or on top. Now you'll have them... standing on end behind the car on some hitch mount?

 

[scottf200]

I think Tesla(Elon) set expectations with the picture. If that 3rd row is 4' wide then it would fit a 4'x8'. I don't carry plywood or drywall much now a days but I absolutely carry other things that require a lot of space ... more than just folding 3rd row.

Image: http://i.imgur.com/TxqHrWu.png

And certainly this text didn't just imply the 2nd row would fold ... it stated it matter of factly.

Image: http://i.imgur.com/n951Anz.png

image: http://i.imgur.com/wUEJz1u.png

 

[Yggdrasill]

For many years, everything that I owned was small enough that it could be moved in my CR-V (but eventually it took more and more trips). Even when I upgraded from a futon to a queen size bed, I was able to move it myself since I bought a Select Comfort Sleep Number bed which is easy to disassemble. While a couple have posted that they rarely have their seats down, mine are rarely up as I'm always hauling stuff or driving the dogs around.

Maybe I'll just keep the CR-V and get an S instead but I really was hoping to totally get away from owning an ICE.

Hah, my needs are quite similar to yours. I had a 1998 CR-V up until last year, when the driver of an oncoming car fell asleep and totaled it. It was very utilitarian, and I miss it sometimes. The seats were rarely up. Though aside from ground clearence and AWD, my current i30 actually has similar utility. If the seats really don't fold, I don't really know what I'll do. Maybe I'll just keep the i30 for a few more years. Either Tesla will come with folding seats, or the Model 3 crossover will be attractive, or maybe Audi's BEV will be attractive (not likely). Or maybe the Model S will come with a tow hitch, and I'll be able to convince my wife the car isn't ugly/gaudy.

 

[FlasherZ]

For many years, everything that I owned was small enough that it could be moved in my CR-V (but eventually it took more and more trips). Even when I upgraded from a futon to a queen size bed, I was able to move it myself since I bought a Select Comfort Sleep Number bed which is easy to disassemble. While a couple have posted that they rarely have their seats down, mine are rarely up as I'm always hauling stuff or driving the dogs around.

You're still good:

Doors might not open, though.

...and I get bonus points for tying together the Chysler Cordoba in the picture to the towing thread!

- - - Updated - - -

I think Tesla(Elon) set expectations with the picture. If that 3rd row is 4' wide then it would fit a 4'x8'. I don't carry plywood or drywall much now a days but I absolutely carry other things that require a lot of space ... more than just folding 3rd row.

Yes, and that was over 18 months ago... things do change during engineering - that's why Model X doesn't look exactly like its prototype, and Model S doesn't look exactly like its prototype. People keep posting that e-mail as if to say Tesla can't read their own communications or something. They set a goal of having everything completely fold-flat and either a) changed their mind based on 12-18 months' updated market intelligence, or b) suffered an engineering setback that couldn't be addressed within a reasonable delivery frame.

This is going to make some people unhappy and will result in some cancellations. Some think it's going to be over a quarter of all reserved Model X's - which I think is absolutely wrong. I'm guessing it will be closer to 5% or so, and perhaps the reveal will speak to the benefits we haven't seen yet that could drive growth in excess of that cancellation.

 

[Krugerrand]

A bit of wider perspective, though:

Due to lack of taxation (and lack of luxury features ), Model S and Model X are actually upper middle class cars in many parts of Europe...

And a bit of a reality perspective:

Neither Model S nor Model X can make everyone happy all around the world. Just as the Model S is not as popular in Germany as it is in Norway due to lack of top speed and size, Model X will not be as popular in (fill in appropriate country) as it is in (fill in appropriate country). And trying to make a vehicle that will be equally as popular to all people and all their needs in all countries is truly impossible, especially if the 'general public' is going to stretch themselves to try and own one. That has been quite a phenomena that nobody could have predicted would happen when Tesla decided to build the Model S and X.

Tesla (Elon?) made a choice about those seats. They'll (he'll) find out in relatively short order if it was a wise choice or not. If it turns out to have been unwise, there's a very real possibility they'll make another choice of providing a second seating option, one that folds. Or not. It's also possibly they'll just move on to their end goal Model 3 having reached the point where that can finally be achieved. Because of the success of Model S, the Model X became far less important to the company's ability to achieve Model 3. The reason given for deciding to still do Model X was that Elon thought such a vehicle should exist. Well, it exists now and we are nearing the end of the tunnel when Model 3 can and will exist.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Yes, and that was over 18 months ago... things do change during engineering - that's why Model X doesn't look exactly like its prototype, and Model S doesn't look exactly like its prototype. People keep posting that e-mail as if to say Tesla can't read their own communications or something. They set a goal of having everything completely fold-flat and either a) changed their mind based on 12-18 months' updated market intelligence, or b) suffered an engineering setback that couldn't be addressed within a reasonable delivery frame.

Elon Musk has previously stated that the finished production vehicle will always be better than the concept. If the seats don't fold, Tesla has failed to deliver.

 

[Krugerrand]

Even if the seats did fold flat, there's no guarantee an 8x4 sheet would fit.

And interestingly enough, a large percentage of trucks in the US at least, can't fit an 8x4 sheet either. :wink: I've always wondered why anyone would buy a short bed pick up, but people do. Often enough. And quite a few people buy extended cab pick ups. So, yeah...to each their own and Tesla will soon find out how important folding second row seats are for various peoples/countries. They'll then decide what to do about it, or not.

- - - Updated - - -

Elon Musk has previously stated that the finished production vehicle will always be better than the concept. If the seats don't fold, Tesla has failed to deliver.

In your opinion, which won't coincide with his or that of everyone else. Just so we're clear. :wink:

 

[Twiddler]

Model X middle seat "foldgate"

I am starting this thread in response to the supposed issue that those take with the middle seats "not folding flat." I have a few general assumptions about this topic:

1. We know that the battery will not accomodate much folding into the floor, so clearly folding flat was never an option to begin with, and most of us who know much at all about the skateboard could see this complaint coming.

2. We know that Elon would not let a middle row go without disappearing somehow to allow for cargo

3. MANY, MANY times, the complex design of the middle row has been mentioned, I am sure to accomodate this issue.

So, here is my proposed design - similar to a few others, but with the key difference that the seat back will be all there is above the floow surface. The seat posts (labeled "A") are shaped that way for a reason. I used the prototype pic here for simplicity, but note that the production seat posts are nearly identical.

View attachment seats.bmp

 

[CmdrThor]

Perhaps you missed that there is an existing thread on this topic:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/52842-Will-the-second-row-seats-fold-flat-If-so-how

 

[Twiddler]

Perhaps you missed that there is an existing thread on this topic:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/52842-Will-the-second-row-seats-fold-flat-If-so-how

Yes I did - mods could you please consolidate? Thanks!

 

[scottf200]

In the 25th post that picture was already done.

Will the second row seats fold flat? If so, how? - Page 3

 

[smac]

Just as the Model S is not as popular in Germany as it is in Norway due to lack of top speed and size

I'd say far more of a reason is government policy. If in Germany the S is the same price as an Audi A8 while In Norway it's the same price of an A3, it really isn't surprising the S sells so well there.

I drove between Sweden and Norway this year, and the contrast was remarkable between number of S's I saw on the road between the two neighboring countries. (Similar(ish) average income, similar(ish) speed limits, similar(ish) roads... different taxation policies)


But you are right, the X may not be as popular in some countries as others. (I think the doors may be a negative in our height constrained public parking for example), it doesn't mean it's impossible to build a global car. Porsche Cayenne certainly is very popular both sides of the Atlantic.

As for short bed trucks, here in the UK that's pretty much all you can get .... I had one and the main reason was it had a tax perk being a "commercial vehicle" :redface:

 

[Cosmacelf]

Why are people assuming that Tesla has focus groups and this was a considered design change on their part? I think the real answer is that they ran out of time to do the impossible series of requirements that Elon put on the seats. In the end, they ended up with seats that are neither functional, nor luxurious (SUVs costing half as much get much more cushioning with heated and vented second row seats that can fold flat).

 

[Twiddler]

In the 25th post that picture was already done.

Will the second row seats fold flat? If so, how? - Page 3

Again, this is different because in this diaphragm, the seat posts fold flat into the floor. That involves an entirely different mechanism, with one pivot point at the seat base, and one under the floor. The final position of the seat (and the overall design of the diagram) are the only things shared between the two

 

[AnOutsider]

Why are people assuming that Tesla has focus groups and this was a considered design change on their part? I think the real answer is that they ran out of time to do the impossible series of requirements that Elon put on the seats. In the end, they ended up with seats that are neither functional, nor luxurious (SUVs costing half as much get much more cushioning with heated and vented second row seats that can fold flat).

I'd put money on this over any of the other theories in a heartbeat. In Tesla/Apple fashion, of course they'll downtalk what they can't accomplish. Doesn't mean they didn't WANT to accomplish them.

 

[FlasherZ]

Why are people assuming that Tesla has focus groups and this was a considered design change on their part? I think the real answer is that they ran out of time to do the impossible series of requirements that Elon put on the seats. In the end, they ended up with seats that are neither functional, nor luxurious (SUVs costing half as much get much more cushioning with heated and vented second row seats that can fold flat).

I don't think anyone said focus groups (which are a very specific type of market research). There are plenty of other market intelligence capabilities that many companies have -- and if they did run out of time (I agree more than disagree with you), they likely used the market intelligence to make a decision about how to handle the shortfall.

That said, for my family I find the pictured Model X seats second row seats to be INCREDIBLY functional, without even seeing them in person. In neither my Suburban, nor my Traverse could I have the kids' bags stored under their seat - they were always cluttered under their feet or stuffed in the back where they couldn't get to them. The seats themselves are big blocks and offer no storage around or beneath them. Folding the seats in both of those vehicels sacrifices some space against the rear of the front seat (that's where seat cushions fold against in both models), and creates a very high load floor (and GM took up the under-floor space to move the battery and some other crap there.

As for luxurious, I'm sure others will have to judge. Anything (even black vinyl) would be more luxurious than the stained cloth bench seat in my Traverse.

 

[Johan]

What a waste of time and bandwidth this thread will turn out on Sept 29th if it turns out the 2nd row does fold or somehow otherwise gets well out the way to create class leading storage... It's as likely a theory as other stuff I've read here.