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Will the new CCS enabled superchargers have long cables?

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We've seen the announcement that Tesla will open 3,500 supercharger stalls (probably new ones) to use by CCS cars and, announcing this in concert with the White House, will presumably receive federal money to do this. The question is, just how big an opening of the network is this?


In particular, none of the supposedly "leaked" diagrams of Tesla's "magic dock" -- sometimes depicted as a NACS to CCS adapter built into the stall which can be unlocked and used by CCS cars, and sometimes shown as a dual-cord stall -- show an ordinary length charging cord. All Tesla drivers know it can be fairly hard to get the Tesla cord into their car's port which is right at the rear corner of the car. No other car has the port exactly at that corner (or the opposite front) though the Lexus and Mitsubishi have it somewhat close, and maybe an e-Tron could pull it off with a slightly longer cord. Hyunda/Kias could use it if they parked half a parking space over which we don't want.

Tesla could, to be sneaky, keep their cord and say "we support CCS" but for very few cars. They don't care that much about the bad press this would bring. Tesla cords now use liquid cooling and you can't just stick an extension cord on them.

The expansion is not that much. Tesla has 17,000 chargers now and says it will have double that (34,000) in the same timeframe, so only 10% of their stalls will support CCS. These will presumably be only new installations, and possibly not all the stalls at a station to boot. There are some places like Oregon where getting grants requires having a 350kW station, which Tesla can presumably support with their new V4 supercharger which handles up to 1,000v.

The WH announcement talks of even more money beyond the $5B NEVI program being administered by the states. That program puts a lot of rules on stations which don't match the way Tesla designs stations -- and usually stupid rules, though a few of them, like support for plug-and-charge and exporting stall availability status to appear in other apps, make sense. Screens, credit cards and 150kW minimums at all times on 4 ports are mistakes that come from the government and lobbyists designing your charging station.

Tesla has many other avenues to discourage non-Tesla use of these 10% of their chargers. They will charge CCS drivers more, but they are also offering a $1/month membership according to reports which will bring the price down. Nothing would forbid them from giving power priority to Teslas (or members) except at the 4 NEVI stalls. And they could make only a few stalls support CCS, making the stations less attractive to CCS drivers. (If a station has 32 stalls and only 4 support your car, you may feel less inclined to use it.)

Or will they, as they have said they want to do, embrace the CCS cars -- give them good prices, make all stalls support CCS and put longer cords on all stalls, at least for a CCS cord?

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"Tesla Supercharger" by Open Grid Scheduler / Grid Engine is marked with CC0 1.0.
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That philosophy only works in single car garages. We have a 2 car garage and need to park our Tesla on the right side. If the port were in the front it wouldn’t really matter but placing the port in the back created all sorts of logistical issues. I could mount the charger on the left wall but then it would need to run behind or over our other car. I could mount it on the right wall but then it would have to run behind or over the Tesla or I could mount it on the back wall but then I had to make sure the cord was long enough and it’s constantly being dragged on the garage floor (and poses a trip hazard.) If we should get another EV then there’s no place we could mount a charger where it would reach both cars. Backing in to our garage is not practical, either.

This brings up another point - the vast majority of charging occurs at home, not at superchargers, so it would make more sense to optimize positioning for home charging, not supercharging.

my final point is that the rear camera on my MY is often so cloudy that I can’t accurately use it for backing. On several occasions when I’m on a road trip I have difficulty backing in because the view out the rear is poor and I have a blurry camera. In these cases, pulling in is far cheaper. I reallyh don’t buy the ‘backing in is safer’ excuse.
Some of us like to back in, others like to back out. I prefer backing in my 2 car, 2 door garage. Kind of like your excellent unistrut rail, I made a pivoting jib and mounted the WC on the back wall center, I can easily charge on either side of either car.
If the charge port was different or I liked to pull in forward, I would mount my WC to suit, I realize I’m lucky to have that flexibility in my garage.
 
That philosophy only works in single car garages. We have a 2 car garage and need to park our Tesla on the right side. If the port were in the front it wouldn’t really matter but placing the port in the back created all sorts of logistical issues. I could mount the charger on the left wall but then it would need to run behind or over our other car. I could mount it on the right wall but then it would have to run behind or over the Tesla or I could mount it on the back wall but then I had to make sure the cord was long enough and it’s constantly being dragged on the garage floor (and poses a trip hazard.) If we should get another EV then there’s no place we could mount a charger where it would reach both cars. Backing in to our garage is not practical, either.
For 2 car garages with a single door, you always mount one EVSE on each side. Yes, if you have two cars with the charge ports on the same side (both on the left or both on the right), one cord will need to run behind one of the vehicles to get to the charge port, but that's okay because you're not going to be driving off with the EVSE connector attached. What's important is that you don't block the other vehicle, such that one car could be charging and the other vehicle could be leaving and you'd have to unplug the vehicle that's charging in order to get out of the garage without running over the cord (which you would not do if you have one EVSE on each side). The only time you'd have issues with this is if you had a 3 car garage with a single door but I don't think they make doors that big.

For a garage with two single stall doors, you can mount one EVSE on the pillar if you want to, and one to the side of one of the stalls. If the second EVSE is mounted to the left side, then the pillar EVSE serves the vehicle to the right or vice versa. If you have a 3 car garage with one two stall door and one one stall door, then the pillar EVSE would obviously serve the space on the double stall door just adjacent to it. The other two spaces would then require EVSEs on the sides.
 
I see a lot of Charger Rage incidents when Tesla opens up stations with pedestals located at the rear.
There is a solution to this if Tesla, when a station gets above a certain percent used, switches to assigning stalls to cars.

For Teslas, that's easy. As you arrive at the supercharger, your screen says, "Take stall 4C." You take it, because none of the other stalls will activate for you. If somebody is in it somehow (they aren't getting power) you say that and it assigns you a different one.

For non-Teslas, they fire up the app as they arrive at the station. It knows what car they have, what side their cord is on and tells them to take their stall.

And Tesla makes sure that cars which use the cord on the left (facing the charger) as put together, and kept to the right side of the bank. Cars which use the cord on the right (Teslas and a few others) are kept to the left side of the bank. There is a spare space on the right side. An empty space divides the cars, but the stalls on both sides of it are in use, so no stall is wasted.

In the initial phase, a few confused drivers will have problems. They will park at at a stall and learn they parked at the wrong one and move. The next time, they'll know.

It could be the Audi is the only car that can't charge here, if the Polestar/Volvo/Ioniq will reach.
 
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Between the spots so the pedestal is on the side when you park. That way you can either pull in or back in depending on where your charge port is.
That is definitely nice and allows the cord to reach many more places on the vehicles, possibly even reach an e-TRON. Tesla only rarely does it this way in the USA, presumably for a variety of reasons. It's a lot cheaper and cheaper to dig up and trench past the curb in an existing parking lot, though not as big a deal in a brand new lot. There is also the risk of cars hitting stalls in such locations, which may mean you need bollards but even they would not protect it the way backstops and curbs might.

A number of stations have one stall at the rear side, which you can go into frontways -- even towing a trailer if there is room to the rear. Everybody likes those, and trailer drivers very much like them. But it's usually only one stall and often its still on the curb at the end of a row.

Of course there are the places with pull-through which are great, but not super common, and probably only with greenfield lots. In the early years pretty much all SC were retrofits on existing lots, though today that is changing.
 
For 2 car garages with a single door, you always mount one EVSE on each side. Yes, if you have two cars with the charge ports on the same side (both on the left or both on the right), one cord will need to run behind one of the vehicles to get to the charge port, but that's okay because you're not going to be driving off with the EVSE connector attached. What's important is that you don't block the other vehicle, such that one car could be charging and the other vehicle could be leaving and you'd have to unplug the vehicle that's charging in order to get out of the garage without running over the cord (which you would not do if you have one EVSE on each side). The only time you'd have issues with this is if you had a 3 car garage with a single door but I don't think they make doors that big.

For a garage with two single stall doors, you can mount one EVSE on the pillar if you want to, and one to the side of one of the stalls. If the second EVSE is mounted to the left side, then the pillar EVSE serves the vehicle to the right or vice versa. If you have a 3 car garage with one two stall door and one one stall door, then the pillar EVSE would obviously serve the space on the double stall door just adjacent to it. The other two spaces would then require EVSEs on the sides.
The problem isn't driving over the cord - it's that the garage space is fairly tight so there's not much room to walk behind the car to deal with the cord with the garage door closed. There's also a significant chance that it will come under the garage door. It also means continually dragging it across the floor, through salt, sand and water, potentially damaging the cord and getting it dirty, in term meaning you end up needing to wash your hands every time you plug the car in. Overhead mounting in that location is also problematic due to the garage door tracks.

Backing in is not a viable option, either - a narrow opening will little space on either side, routinely needing to back up a snow and ice covered driveway with a rear camera that is frequently obscured from road spray means backing in would be asking for damage.
 
The problem isn't driving over the cord - it's that the garage space is fairly tight so there's not much room to walk behind the car to deal with the cord with the garage door closed. There's also a significant chance that it will come under the garage door. It also means continually dragging it across the floor, through salt, sand and water, potentially damaging the cord and getting it dirty, in term meaning you end up needing to wash your hands every time you plug the car in. Overhead mounting in that location is also problematic due to the garage door tracks.
Let me guess - 20' deep garage? Garages less than 24' deep should be banned. Not sure how you even get the rear hatch open or get stuff out of the trunk without opening the garage door with less than 24' of garage depth.
 
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Honestly I bet 3rd party extender cables will quickly become a thing. Something like this but either CCS1 on both ends or CCS1 and the car end and just the NACS receptical on the other. An extra 0.5-1 meter would solve the length issues for many cars:
 
The Audi e-Tron seems to be the main car that will have a problem -- IF the cord can reach the Polestar/Ioniq/Volvo location which is not as shown in that diagram. If people follow a rule of "right side (looking at stall) charging cars (Tesla) keep left, left side charging cars keep right" wasted stalls should be rare. Ideally the stalls would be assigned by Tesla to assure this. The big question will be the Bolt, which is a very common car.
 
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IF the cord can reach the Polestar/Ioniq/Volvo location which is not as shown in that diagram.
It reaches in Europe, so I see no reason it wouldn't reach here in the US.

The big question will be the Bolt, which is a very common car.
I saw someone post a video showing a Bolt plugged in and charging, so that doesn't seem to be a problem.
 
They duplicated the CCS experience quite well -- first stall didn't work, had to move, then only getting 62kW.
The low charge rate is a likely a combination of a cold battery, not being pre-conditioned, and that the GV60 is an 800volt car so it has to use onboard voltage "doubling" which is limited to 100kW. (I think toward the end he said he was getting ~90kW, after the battery had a chance to heat up.)

The Taycan will have similar issues. The standard 400v equipment is limited to 50kW, though you could pay extra to get a 150kW converter when you spec'ed the car.
 
so he's functionally taking up 2 spots because the port on his GV60 is on the back right so if a Tesla comes both the charger he's using and the one to the right are unavailable.
Yes, that's the unfortunate reality of how it's going to be. He did mention if location was busy he would have parked on the spot that has the stall on the side. That one he wouldn't have blocked anyone.