Time to change a basic Supercharging design?

[Chris Barnes]

As someone from Houston it doesn't shock me at all that someone stole the charging cables from 18 of 19 Superchargers in Montrose. Nobody seems 100% sure if this was a copper theft or an anti-EV action.

BUT - my question is this: is it time to take the cables off of EV chargers in America?

In other countries the driver has to supply their own charging cable - the dispenser provides just a port to plug into. Should Tesla move this way in the US, too?

I can see how this might also resolve the non-Tesla "cord is too short" issues that result in double parking spots being taken by non-Teslas while charging. Just have a long enough cable in your car.

Is it time to change a basic Supercharger design?

 

[Sophias_dad]

Far too much of an installed base to do that now.

Additionally, the cords(to carry 150-250kw) are big, heavy, expensive items. I understand newer ones are even liquid cooled. Its an added expense that no one will welcome. They'll take up space/weight in the car, some folks won't be physically able to use them, and so on.

 

[Chris Barnes]

Far too much of an installed base to do that now.

Additionally, the cords(to carry 150-250kw) are big, heavy, expensive items. I understand newer ones are even liquid cooled. Its an added expense that no one will welcome. They'll take up space/weight in the car, some folks won't be physically able to use them, and so on.

I tend to agree with you. Also, how long does it take to remove 18 charging cables? 15 minutes? 30? This Supercharger is in a very populated area. My first question is where are the police? But I already know the answer to that one. I've had cars broken into in Houston. I've been in auto accidents in Houston. The police don't respond unless you say there's an 18-wheeler involved. Very sad. We'll never know what happened here AND KPRC was kind enough to let everyone know it's safe to do this. <eye roll>

 

[RTPEV]

In other countries the driver has to supply their own charging cable - the dispenser provides just a port to plug into. Should Tesla move this way in the US, too?

This is the case for Level 2 stations (and it's not a bad idea), but definitely not DC fastchargers. As @Sophias_dad pointed out, those are huge cables with specialized sensors and cooling. It would really not be practical to design such a system.

This is partly the outcome of the initial site design of Supercharger/fastcharger stations being placed in relatively unwanted areas (beggars can't be choosers) in the far corners of parking lots.

The solution is likely to take the form of stations becoming more front and center (and hopefully laid out more like gas station islands to accommodate various vehicle sizes/shapes) with well lit, covered (or even indoor), and monitored sites.

Until then, a "simpler" solution would be to enclose the cable behind a door that is latched closed until a customer authorizes payment (and requires the door to be relatched before the transaction is complete). Unfortunately this defeats the plug-and-charge convenience, but such a solution may be necessary.

 

[Tam]

As someone from Houston it doesn't shock me at all that someone stole the charging cables from 18 of 19 Superchargers in Montrose. Nobody seems 100% sure if this was a copper theft or an anti-EV action.

BUT - my question is this: is it time to take the cables off of EV chargers in America?

In other countries the driver has to supply their own charging cable - the dispenser provides just a port to plug into. Should Tesla move this way in the US, too?

I can see how this might also resolve the non-Tesla "cord is too short" issues that result in double parking spots being taken by non-Teslas while charging. Just have a long enough cable in your car.

Is it time to change a basic Supercharger design?

I think Tesla is planning a NACS extension cord. Tesla Semi has been using that for years. So the car owner cable is great once the bugs are worked out: weight, costs, disability accommodations...

I also like @RTPEV 's idea of locked cable. An automatic lock/unlock cable cabinet responding to your Tesla car's signal. The problem is cost, not technology.

China already has an automatic obstacle depending on Tesla car's signal to make sure the supercharger is not ICEd.

 

[Tam]

An article on cable extension:

Tesla is working on NACS extension cable to fix Supercharging issues with different port locations

Tesla has confirmed that it is working on a NACS to NACS extension cable to fix the issues with Supercharging...

electrek.co

 

[Chris Barnes]

An article on cable extension:

Tesla is working on NACS extension cable to fix Supercharging issues with different port locations

Tesla has confirmed that it is working on a NACS to NACS extension cable to fix the issues with Supercharging...

electrek.co

"It’s not clear when the new solution will be available."

Yeah, considering this was at the beginning of March and it's now May AND they probably laid off the people working on it...

 

[Tam]

"It’s not clear when the new solution will be available."

Yeah, considering this was at the beginning of March and it's now May AND they probably laid off the people working on it...

True. It is not a technical impossibility like landing astronauts on the burning sun.

It's about the implementation of existing technology. That means DON'T lay off the Supercharger team.

 

[Tam]

An article about automatic obstacles to prevent being iced but allowing Tesla cars in fine. That automation could be transferred to automatic unlocking cable cabinet:

Tesla China Integrates Ability to Unlock Anti-ICEing Floor Lock System into Phone App

Tesla owners are often faced with ICEing all over the world, but the company's team in China resorted to measures. The manufacturer has installed a floor lock system on their Superchargers and now Tesla car owners can unlock them using the company's mobile app.

www.tesmanian.com

 

[Tam]

Another anti-cable theft technology is induction wireless charging.

Currently, it's about 20kW, but the experimental speed could be 100kW.

Michigan has a 1-mile-long Wireless Charging Roadway. It'll be hard for a cable thief to dig up the road!

 

[father_of_6]

They should redesign the cables so that they activate when being cut.

 

[Tam]

They should redesign the cables so that they activate when being cut.

I'm not sure it's consistent with Elon Musk's concern about a population collapse!

 

[Chris Barnes]

It'll be hard for a cable thief to dig up the road!

I wouldn't put it past them!

 

[MP3Mike]

Until then, a "simpler" solution would be to enclose the cable behind a door that is latched closed until a customer authorizes payment (and requires the door to be relatched before the transaction is complete).

It might slow it down, but it wouldn't eliminate it. See below:

They should redesign the cables so that they activate when being cut.

No point, they don't care:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1787336347591561650

 

[father_of_6]

No point, they don't care:

Wow, that's nuts. What a shame. This is why we can't have nice things. There are always people willing to drag humanity down for self gain.

 

[Tam]

Wow, that's nuts. What a shame. This is why we can't have nice things. There are always people willing to drag humanity down for self gain.

It's human nature: some are good, some bad, the rest in between...

Thus, a designer needs to take that into the consideration.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

It happens here in the UK too at specific locations which are presumably quiet and with a nearby population of scrotes. The value of the reclaimed copper is really quite low but I suppose these people are happy to do whatever for a few £/$.

The only answer for the moment would be highly visible, monitored CCTV of the chargers and/or security staff on site, neither of which are probably practical or cost-effective.

In time, the more the chargers are in use, the less the scrotes will attack. Untethered chargers are are a backward step. Maybe attack monkeys could be employed? Like Trunk Monkey, but Charger Monkey.

 

[Watts_Up]

As someone from Houston it doesn't shock me at all that someone stole the charging cables from 18 of 19 Superchargers in Montrose. Nobody seems 100% sure if this was a copper theft or an anti-EV action.

BUT - my question is this: is it time to take the cables off of EV chargers in America?

In other countries the driver has to supply their own charging cable - the dispenser provides just a port to plug into. Should Tesla move this way in the US, too?

I can see how this might also resolve the non-Tesla "cord is too short" issues that result in double parking spots being taken by non-Teslas while charging. Just have a long enough cable in your car.

Is it time to change a basic Supercharger design?

I think you mixed up the two types of public charging, such as Level 3 DC Supercharging (about 100 kW+) and Level 2 AC charging (about 10 kW.)

From your title, you mentioned "Supercharging" which are using liquid cooling cables, so the cables cannot be unplugged from the charging station.
So, it would have been a good idea to have a way to protect them from vandalism, using a cabinet door or a rolling back mechanism.

However, in the case of Level 2 AC charging, in Europe those public chargers require that each user has his/her own charging cable, but not in US.

In my area, those Level 2 AC charging are constantly vandalized, and I agree that the US Level 2 design should be changed to use a separate cable.



But would the US users accept this change requiring to buy an extra cable, which might cost around $100 ?

BYOC – Could Bring Your Own Cable Ever Take Off in the U.S.? — The Watt Car

One of the most interesting developments in the last decade with the increase in popularity with EVs is what different strategies various regions and countries have taken in terms of infrastructure and code… BY EDWARD A. SANCHEZ

www.thewattcar.com

 

[Tam]

For AC charging, the EU has been carrying its own cables in its EVs:

BYOC – Could Bring Your Own Cable Ever Take Off in the U.S.? — The Watt Car

One of the most interesting developments in the last decade with the increase in popularity with EVs is what different strategies various regions and countries have taken in terms of infrastructure and code… BY EDWARD A. SANCHEZ

www.thewattcar.com

 

[MLXXXp]

I agree that the US Level 2 design should be changed to use a separate cable

The J3400 (NACS) specification includes a standard for "carry-along" level 2 AC cables. The EVSE side is always J3068 "Mennekes". The vehicle side can be J3400, J1772 or J3068.

SAE J3400 and the game-changing advances in AC charging

Advancing the conversation around mobility knowledge with news and trends to benefit humanity.

www.sae.org