Because the epitome of car culture has become sad old men like Jeremy Clarkeson.
Also this: Rethinking the Automobile (with Mark Gorton) on Vimeo
Also this: Rethinking the Automobile (with Mark Gorton) on Vimeo
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Why doesn't the younger generation "love" cars like the older?
- Thread starter AnOutsider
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The Model S will be the first car in history for which you can write an app, or reskin the display. This alone will make the car very appealing to a new generation.
I don't think that's it. There can be little doubt it's gotten harder to tinker with technology. The reason you don't see many electronics hobbyists these days is because it really has gotten harder. The fool things have shrunk! Used to be you got these big-ass components with wires on them, and you stuck them through holes in a board that were on 0.1 inch spacing, and then you soldered them together with a pencil iron from Radio Shack.
Now most of the components are surface mount, and many of them are hard to even see. You pretty much have to make a printed circuit card, and be equipped with a microscope, solder paste applicator, extra-fine tweezers, a soldering iron with tiny tips and thin solder... and if you're doing it right add a hot air board pre-heater and an air pencil.
I've met some people who rebuild old BMW's to make them into track cars. The first thing they have to do is figure out how much of the electronics and wiring they can rip out without disabling the engine.
Love this thread!
This was my first thought. Also read "Shopcraft as Soulcraft" by a philosopher motorcycle mechanic does a great job describing how kids are not taught real world skills anymore and devices are all disposable and no longer repairable.
Here's the bad news. This is all terrible for overall car sales.
Not a good time to start a car company but probably OK if Tesla's goals are modest.
This was my first thought. Also read "Shopcraft as Soulcraft" by a philosopher motorcycle mechanic does a great job describing how kids are not taught real world skills anymore and devices are all disposable and no longer repairable.
Here's the bad news. This is all terrible for overall car sales.
Not a good time to start a car company but probably OK if Tesla's goals are modest.
SByer
'08 #383
So, as a forty-mumble working at 'that internet company' with all the twenty-somethings, I'll lay out what I've seen (and what's happening in the valley):
- Public transportation in the US is f*d up. We won't pay for a decent system, so it never crosses that line into territory where it's useful for those that have alternatives. In the Bay Area, it means large employers now have their own transportation systems. And they kick ass. WiFi on board, super comfy seats, enough bike storage to entend their range. Heck, my car'll be in for it's 3rd yearly next week, and that's what I'll be doing. And I'd do it more often if I wasn't dead in-between stops (#firstworldproblems), and I'll probably do it more often as traffic gets worse. (And bike to work more often when it's sunny and warm).
- Self-driving cars are coming. Inevitable. And they're already better than humans, which, for the most part, drive like crap. Wandering all over the road, texting and calling, changing lanes without signaling. I've watched the SD Priuses and they track far more straight and confident than most of the drivers out there. But...
- Individuals driving does not scale. Epic traffic jams in Shanghai, every freeway in LA, it just doesn't work. Building more roads just doesn't work. Interchanges and offramps revamped just 8 years ago are over saturated. It just doesn't scale.
- City planners have actually been doing better. Mass transit hubs with high density housing. Mixed urban and high-end retail. With the window of being able to drive anywhere in a reasonable time in urban and sub-urban areas becoming smaller, and cities being eager to re-vitalize mixed downtown areas to satisfy constituents or state mandates, the un-dense population model of vast suburban areas with tiny centralized shopping areas breaks down and just doesn't happen anymore. It's taken time, but the needle is starting to move.
And I'll disagree - it's not computers. I grew up with computers. It's the internet, the connectedness, the constant need to feel needed or know what's going on. The stimuli the kids grow up with now are outside the box of what evolution equipped us to deal with. Plus, it's not an all of a sudden thing; it's a slow tide. As the commute gets slowly more painful, and your company offers a better way to get there, and you can stay connected, and get to work with your inbox near zero... driving in a car during the commute just doesn't make sense if you can avoid it, and owning a car just for weekends doesn't ame much sense when car share programs can fill in the occasional gap. Like I said, even with the Roadster, and it's ability to make the commute far more serene and sublime than any clunky ICE, I'm just about there for my commute, even with the white sticker, and when that's gone...
I console myself by listening to Red Barchetta sometimes and punching it for the short bits of 85 that are semi-clear sometimes, though of course I replace 'motor law' with 'engine law' in my mind like it should have been.
- Public transportation in the US is f*d up. We won't pay for a decent system, so it never crosses that line into territory where it's useful for those that have alternatives. In the Bay Area, it means large employers now have their own transportation systems. And they kick ass. WiFi on board, super comfy seats, enough bike storage to entend their range. Heck, my car'll be in for it's 3rd yearly next week, and that's what I'll be doing. And I'd do it more often if I wasn't dead in-between stops (#firstworldproblems), and I'll probably do it more often as traffic gets worse. (And bike to work more often when it's sunny and warm).
- Self-driving cars are coming. Inevitable. And they're already better than humans, which, for the most part, drive like crap. Wandering all over the road, texting and calling, changing lanes without signaling. I've watched the SD Priuses and they track far more straight and confident than most of the drivers out there. But...
- Individuals driving does not scale. Epic traffic jams in Shanghai, every freeway in LA, it just doesn't work. Building more roads just doesn't work. Interchanges and offramps revamped just 8 years ago are over saturated. It just doesn't scale.
- City planners have actually been doing better. Mass transit hubs with high density housing. Mixed urban and high-end retail. With the window of being able to drive anywhere in a reasonable time in urban and sub-urban areas becoming smaller, and cities being eager to re-vitalize mixed downtown areas to satisfy constituents or state mandates, the un-dense population model of vast suburban areas with tiny centralized shopping areas breaks down and just doesn't happen anymore. It's taken time, but the needle is starting to move.
And I'll disagree - it's not computers. I grew up with computers. It's the internet, the connectedness, the constant need to feel needed or know what's going on. The stimuli the kids grow up with now are outside the box of what evolution equipped us to deal with. Plus, it's not an all of a sudden thing; it's a slow tide. As the commute gets slowly more painful, and your company offers a better way to get there, and you can stay connected, and get to work with your inbox near zero... driving in a car during the commute just doesn't make sense if you can avoid it, and owning a car just for weekends doesn't ame much sense when car share programs can fill in the occasional gap. Like I said, even with the Roadster, and it's ability to make the commute far more serene and sublime than any clunky ICE, I'm just about there for my commute, even with the white sticker, and when that's gone...
I console myself by listening to Red Barchetta sometimes and punching it for the short bits of 85 that are semi-clear sometimes, though of course I replace 'motor law' with 'engine law' in my mind like it should have been.
Arnold Panz
Model Sig 304, VIN 542
An article in the Atlantic jumping off of the NY Times article on the topic that started this thread:
Why Don't Young Americans Buy Cars?
Basically, there is a lot of agreement that cars don't have the cultural cache that they used to, and given how millenials like to live (in or near cities or urban-like environments), cars are much less essential to their lives than they were for previous generations. The numbers are somewhat startling on drivers licenses and owning cars for the younger generation.
Why Don't Young Americans Buy Cars?
Basically, there is a lot of agreement that cars don't have the cultural cache that they used to, and given how millenials like to live (in or near cities or urban-like environments), cars are much less essential to their lives than they were for previous generations. The numbers are somewhat startling on drivers licenses and owning cars for the younger generation.
Cars have evolved.
"Once upon a time," cars needed *lots* of tender loving care, and all the time. I can remember many a weekend spent with Dad as he changed the oil, checked the plugs, sanded and Bondo'ed the rusty spots, did battle with the wiper blade inserts, flushed the radiator, replaced and then readjusted the headlights, swapped winter tires for summer tires, and packing the wheel bearings. I remember trying to hold the spooky blinking timing light steady during the tune-up ritual, and handing dad the next lug nut when swapping the tires. Good 'ol days.
Today, you can't do *anything*. It's all computerized, sealed, and lifetime lubricated. I'm surprised that the hood latch doesn't need a dealer-only key to open it. There's no more fun bonding going on between father and son, or for that matter, car and driver.
A few decades ago, a motor trip - *any* motor trip - was fun in and of itself. The rolled down window, the wind in your hair, the roar of the not-so-muffled engine as you traversed hill and dale to - wherever. Even a trip to the grocery store had meaning. (Of course, riding with Mom was sometimes a lot more exciting than one would think). :-O
Today, cars are not much more than 4-wheeled elevators, a traveling living room, or a place to put your brain on time-out until you get to your destination. Lets face it: a good number of TV commercials try to dredge up memories of cars they built 50 years ago to fire up a desire that just isn't there for today's cars.
There are times I think back to the first cars I've owned when I was a lot younger and a little more foolish, and think of them fondly.
I am wondering if my daughter, 25 years from now, will even *remember* what her first car was. It will have been just a way to get from A to B.
- - -
I don't know if Tesla will revitalize the way we think about cars. The Model S won't be known as the first electric car, but it may become known as the one that made electric cars popular and affordable.
Only time will tell.
-- Ardie
"Once upon a time," cars needed *lots* of tender loving care, and all the time. I can remember many a weekend spent with Dad as he changed the oil, checked the plugs, sanded and Bondo'ed the rusty spots, did battle with the wiper blade inserts, flushed the radiator, replaced and then readjusted the headlights, swapped winter tires for summer tires, and packing the wheel bearings. I remember trying to hold the spooky blinking timing light steady during the tune-up ritual, and handing dad the next lug nut when swapping the tires. Good 'ol days.
Today, you can't do *anything*. It's all computerized, sealed, and lifetime lubricated. I'm surprised that the hood latch doesn't need a dealer-only key to open it. There's no more fun bonding going on between father and son, or for that matter, car and driver.
A few decades ago, a motor trip - *any* motor trip - was fun in and of itself. The rolled down window, the wind in your hair, the roar of the not-so-muffled engine as you traversed hill and dale to - wherever. Even a trip to the grocery store had meaning. (Of course, riding with Mom was sometimes a lot more exciting than one would think). :-O
Today, cars are not much more than 4-wheeled elevators, a traveling living room, or a place to put your brain on time-out until you get to your destination. Lets face it: a good number of TV commercials try to dredge up memories of cars they built 50 years ago to fire up a desire that just isn't there for today's cars.
There are times I think back to the first cars I've owned when I was a lot younger and a little more foolish, and think of them fondly.
I am wondering if my daughter, 25 years from now, will even *remember* what her first car was. It will have been just a way to get from A to B.
- - -
I don't know if Tesla will revitalize the way we think about cars. The Model S won't be known as the first electric car, but it may become known as the one that made electric cars popular and affordable.
Only time will tell.
-- Ardie
I think you're dead wrong on the idea that you don't see many electronics hobbyists these days. I think there are more than ever. Just look at the Arduino revolution. Anybody can program a microcontroller now and build a simple circuit to perform cool tasks. A lot of kids and adults alike are into it.
Look at Make magazine. When they started about 5 yrs ago everybody said "Print publications are going out of business left and right, and you are starting a new one?!" So far it has exceeded all their expectations.
I agree there are more hobbyists, but not 100% convinced that hobbyists and tinkerers make up enough of car owners to be the reason for the decline.
In HS most kids either wanted a car for freedom or to throw body kits on it fast n furious style. Very few were tinkering under the hood. If I had to guess, I'd say that the hobbyists and tinkerers are a very small subset of the overall car drivers out there, but as the overall numbers decline, the ratio of hobbyists to non-hobbyists increases.
In HS most kids either wanted a car for freedom or to throw body kits on it fast n furious style. Very few were tinkering under the hood. If I had to guess, I'd say that the hobbyists and tinkerers are a very small subset of the overall car drivers out there, but as the overall numbers decline, the ratio of hobbyists to non-hobbyists increases.
That's great to see, although it's really about programming a microcontroller, not building stuff from scratch - like I did for my first computer.
In California they took away some of their freedom by not allowing the new drivers to carry passengers until they are 18.
To the tinkerers are a minority. This forum is filled with this minority. The Arduino hobbyists are the Heathkit of today which cmae from the crystal radio experimenters of before that. Those kids are the ones that become the engineers that build the disposable toys we all buy.
BTW, Make magazine is filling the void left be Popular Mechanics and Electronics left when they went all glossy and only have the content of shiny new products.
Other magazine like Popular Photography, Old house Journal (This Old House), and more area also prime for replacement with actual how-to versions and the internet is filling some of that hole.
BTW, Make magazine is filling the void left be Popular Mechanics and Electronics left when they went all glossy and only have the content of shiny new products.
Other magazine like Popular Photography, Old house Journal (This Old House), and more area also prime for replacement with actual how-to versions and the internet is filling some of that hole.
I am completely uninterested in driving.
However, I live in a small town in a rural area. Driving is a necessity to get to an awful lot of stuff. Driving is a complete necessity if you live outside downtown, and I had to, due to lack of wheelchair-accessible housing stock downtown.
I would have preferred to have no car and never drive at all. Decent bus service would be nice (almost none of the country has this), decent train service would be far better (some parts of the country have this -- everyone USED to, in the late 19th century, until it was all ripped out). I get motion sick on buses and in cars, but in trains I can actually read or write.
I got a Model S because it's the best option if I'm *forced* to have a car. Which I am.
But I would rather not have to drive at all. Ever. There are a lot of really dangerous drivers on the road -- crazy people who tailgate and speed and pass when they shouldn't. Because of this, driving is a fraught experience even when it's going well. I would also like to get the dangerous drivers OFF the road, by the way.
Indeed.
I found out today if you go into a jewelry store looking pretty rough (I was at work this morning, doing some physical, and very messy labor) that a Model S really helps you get assistance. I go in, "Is that your Tesla?", "Yeah", 10 minutes of Tesla time. Then "How can I help you!"!!
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