When to report NHTSA issues?

[NoMoGas]

And how does someone experiencing the failure know that it's a "random failure" vs. "systematic"?

I didn't say there should be a recall. I merely strongly suggest those who have experienced a legitimate safety defect (not user error) should file a safety complaint w/NHTSA, and it'd be better to do it once the issue has been resolved so that it's known what was down to remedy/attempt to remedy it, if anything.

If NHTSA believes there is a systemic issue, they might initiate an investigation which might lead to a recall. And, if there's a recall, that means a free repair to improve the safety of the affected vehicles, possibly yours. Often investigations are never begun and sometimes investigations are closed.

Have you looked at my post at Main Battery and 12V battery failure in the middle of the intersection. - Page 3 on this and examples of documentation I posted at Right front door popped open while driving. Here's another for a different recall, http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM439269/RCDNN-13V235-2333.pdf.

They came from field reports of failures! If nobody reports...

Were you a hall monitor in school? Reporting every person who slid down the banister?


Your zeal to file complaints to NHTSA is a bit strange. They're called complaints for a reason. Do you not trust Tesla to do the right thing? If anything they have gone above and beyond in virtually every instance. Your plan is to COMPEL Tesla to do something they would do anyway on their own without the governments gun to their head, bad press, stock hit, vehicle devaluation due to the media firestorm of any "recall" and God only knows what else.


Sorry, but as long as Tesla is in the crosshairs of heavily monied interests trying to destroy this baby in her crib, and as long as Tesla continued to do right by its customers, I see no reason to complain to anyone other than Tesla.

Just my opinion but I don't see the reason to unleash the jackals.

 

[cwerdna]

Do you work for NHTSA?
Seems like every one of your posts is about NHTSA and how we should all report everything to them

Nope and the latter claim isn't true either.

I've been on numerous car forums since year 2001 or so. So far, this is the ONLY one where there are numerous folks who HIGHLY discourage people from reporting legitimate safety defects to NHTSA. It's bizarre and abnormal.

On other car forums, esp. ones where there are a lot of techies and engineers, if there's a legitimate safety defect, if someone chimes in to report the safety defect to NHTSA (it's not usually me either), NOBODY will lash out at that person.

think bigger picture. Govt agencies only have the resources to really focus on the most prudent of issues. Why do you think this govt has had such trouble staying afloat financially?

So, the body below Who We Are and What We Do | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)

NHTSA is responsible for reducing deaths, injuries and economic losses resulting from motor vehicle crashes. This is accomplished by setting and enforcing safety performance standards for motor vehicles and motor vehicle equipment...

NHTSA investigates safety defects in motor vehicles...

shouldn't be informed about a safety defect in a car because a a bunch of fanboys don't "think" it's safety issue or don't "think" doing so is warranted?

As I said, tens millions of cars have been faced recalls for suddenly stopping, with or w/o any warning lights and they will continue to be recalled for such defects.

Your zeal to file complaints to NHTSA is a bit strange. They're called complaints for a reason. Do you not trust Tesla to do the right thing? If anything they have gone above and beyond in virtually every instance. Your plan is to COMPEL Tesla to do something they would do anyway on their own without the governments gun to their head, bad press, stock hit, vehicle devaluation due to the media firestorm of any "recall" and God only knows what else.

Your zeal and that of others to NOT report legit safety defects to NHTSA is strange.

As for the trust aspect, well, you've already pointed out a potential conflict of interest. And, if there are Tesla employees that feel that something like this where a car "stalls" or "loses power" isn't a safety defect, then well, how far will an internal investigation get? I'm not saying that there are any... but judging by the attitude of some folks here on this forum...

It sounds like what you're saying is any possible consequence to TSLA's stock is more important than your safety, that of other Tesla vehicle owners and that of any vehicles around them, if they end up in an accident w/a Tesla.

To quote from NHTSA Safety Complaint - Page 4

I am in the airline sector of the transportation industry. We routinely report possible safety issues. It's part of our culture. Why do you think the U.S.airlines are the envy of the world for our amazing safety record? It is not considered "tattling". PD is right for reporting this discrepancy.

For any legitimate safety defect in a car that someone experiences, sure many will go unreported (e.g. owner didn't know how/where, didn't know to, didn't feel it was a safety issue, it was unknown if it was a safety defect (e.g. could've been user error), couldn't (not his car, car totalled, etc.).

Then, there's a set that will report. Then, there's a set that's somewhere in between. Zealots and fanboys who actively discourage and succeed in doing so will further diminish the chances a report will make it to NHTSA and it showing up at all on their radar (so that they can see possibly spot troubling any trends, patterns, or high %). And, w/such a small number of Tesla-branded vehicles floating around vs. established automakers, those absolute numbers will probably look relatively small.

 

[qwk]

Do you work for NHTSA?
Seems like every one of your posts is about NHTSA and how we should all report everything to them, its as if youre getting fired for lack of reports coming in!

Yup. Sounds like a typical government employee. Looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[bonnie]

Speaking as someone that most would immediately point to as a fangirl (and wow, do those terms irritate me as dismissive) and someone who has a fairly large portion of their portfolio invested in TSLA, I have to agree that potential safety issues should be reported to BOTH Tesla and NHTSA.

(I'll wait for a moment while you all pick yourselves up off the floor.) ...

So here's the deal. I work with medical devices. Voluntary reports are encouraged by clinical facilities, clinicians, end users, manufacturers, etc for not only device malfunctions when problems occur, but also 'even if no adverse event resulted, were the event to happen again, it's reasonable to believe it could result in an adverse event'. And not even if your device caused the problem. And I make those reports all the time on OUR devices even if I know we did not cause the problem. And yes, those reports are in a public database and can be used by our competitors. And I do it anyway.

Why? Why bring the government down on my head like that? (Because yep, I'm the person who deals with it.) Because it all goes into one database that is used for trending and monitoring. And that database has saved lives. Back in the 70s, a number of pacemaker manufacturers voluntarily reported shortened battery life (which yeah, could lead to an adverse event). No single manufacturer had reason to believe that the few instances they had experienced was a trend. But the agency saw the trend across the product class, rather than specific models - found the common root cause - and got things turned around before it led to a major event. Just because I report doesn't mean it's a black mark against me. NOT reporting is a black mark against me.

Keeping potential safety information out of the NHTSA seems like a good idea at first glance. But it really isn't. And I'm speaking as a huge supporter of Tesla, as one who would call Tesla first, and would probably ask them if they reported it voluntarily.

My two cents.

- - - Updated - - -

And cwernda, I also have to agree that it would be nice to see you contribute in other areas of the forum, rather than focused just on what needs to be reported.

- - - Updated - - -

And all of you? You're close to the line of making this personal. That's a warning from a moderator. Civil discussion, please.

 

[walla2]

I do not consider this a safety issue and will not be reporting this to the NHSTA. The car warned me. Gave me time to get to a safe place and I never felt unsafe. No other car I've owned ever would give me a warning and let me drive further. I called Tesla, and the first thing they asked about was my safety. I think they do care about this problem and handled it appropriately in my best estimate. Those that know me know I will speak my mind here if I have a problem with something.

As an update, I got the car back with what looks like a refurbished "A" battery. It drives again as it always has and service was excellent. Still have one issue remaining that I prefer not to discuss yet here but perhaps will someday.

 

[bonnie]

And that's your decision. Reporting should always be voluntary, based on what you believe is (or is not) a safety issue. In no way did I mean to imply otherwise.

 

[Kraken]

Nope and the latter claim isn't true either.

I've been on numerous car forums since year 2001 or so. So far, this is the ONLY one where there are numerous folks who HIGHLY discourage people from reporting legitimate safety defects to NHTSA. It's bizarre and abnormal.

On other car forums, esp. ones where there are a lot of techies and engineers, if there's a legitimate safety defect, if someone chimes in to report the safety defect to NHTSA (it's not usually me either), NOBODY will lash out at that person.


So, the body below Who We Are and What We Do | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)

shouldn't be informed about a safety defect in a car because a a bunch of fanboys don't "think" it's safety issue or don't "think" doing so is warranted?

As I said, tens millions of cars have been faced recalls for suddenly stopping, with or w/o any warning lights and they will continue to be recalled for such defects.

Your zeal and that of others to NOT report legit safety defects to NHTSA is strange.

As for the trust aspect, well, you've already pointed out a potential conflict of interest. And, if there are Tesla employees that feel that something like this where a car "stalls" or "loses power" isn't a safety defect, then well, how far will an internal investigation get? I'm not saying that there are any... but judging by the attitude of some folks here on this forum...

It sounds like what you're saying is any possible consequence to TSLA's stock is more important than your safety, that of other Tesla vehicle owners and that of any vehicles around them, if they end up in an accident w/a Tesla.

To quote from NHTSA Safety Complaint - Page 4

For any legitimate safety defect in a car that someone experiences, sure many will go unreported (e.g. owner didn't know how/where, didn't know to, didn't feel it was a safety issue, it was unknown if it was a safety defect (e.g. could've been user error), couldn't (not his car, car totalled, etc.).

Then, there's a set that will report. Then, there's a set that's somewhere in between. Zealots and fanboys who actively discourage and succeed in doing so will further diminish the chances a report will make it to NHTSA and it showing up at all on their radar (so that they can see possibly spot troubling any trends, patterns, or high %). And, w/such a small number of Tesla-branded vehicles floating around vs. established automakers, those absolute numbers will probably look relatively small.

I think the part you're missing is that no one here thinks this is a safety issue. The car warned him, and he had a chance to pull over and have it taken care of. It didn't put him in a dangerous situation. And while I understand the point of tracking trends, I'm going to guess that Tesla is all over tracking any incidents like this because they were spending good money and time on it.

I'm not a fanboy of Ford, but I didn't report my alternator issue either.

Another metaphor for ya, this would be like the CIA collecting a report about every homicide worldwide to see if there are hidden terrorist links.

 

[brianman]

Another metaphor for ya, this would be like the CIA collecting a report about every homicide worldwide to see if there are hidden terrorist links.

At best a confusing metaphor these days.

 

[AMPd]

Nope and the latter claim isn't true either.

I've been on numerous car forums since year 2001 or so. So far, this is the ONLY one where there are numerous folks who HIGHLY discourage people from reporting legitimate safety defects to NHTSA. It's bizarre and abnormal.

On other car forums, esp. ones where there are a lot of techies and engineers, if there's a legitimate safety defect, if someone chimes in to report the safety defect to NHTSA (it's not usually me either), NOBODY will lash out at that person.


So, the body below Who We Are and What We Do | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)

shouldn't be informed about a safety defect in a car because a a bunch of fanboys don't "think" it's safety issue or don't "think" doing so is warranted?

As I said, tens millions of cars have been faced recalls for suddenly stopping, with or w/o any warning lights and they will continue to be recalled for such defects.

Your zeal and that of others to NOT report legit safety defects to NHTSA is strange.

As for the trust aspect, well, you've already pointed out a potential conflict of interest. And, if there are Tesla employees that feel that something like this where a car "stalls" or "loses power" isn't a safety defect, then well, how far will an internal investigation get? I'm not saying that there are any... but judging by the attitude of some folks here on this forum...

It sounds like what you're saying is any possible consequence to TSLA's stock is more important than your safety, that of other Tesla vehicle owners and that of any vehicles around them, if they end up in an accident w/a Tesla.

To quote from NHTSA Safety Complaint - Page 4

For any legitimate safety defect in a car that someone experiences, sure many will go unreported (e.g. owner didn't know how/where, didn't know to, didn't feel it was a safety issue, it was unknown if it was a safety defect (e.g. could've been user error), couldn't (not his car, car totalled, etc.).

Then, there's a set that will report. Then, there's a set that's somewhere in between. Zealots and fanboys who actively discourage and succeed in doing so will further diminish the chances a report will make it to NHTSA and it showing up at all on their radar (so that they can see possibly spot troubling any trends, patterns, or high %). And, w/such a small number of Tesla-branded vehicles floating around vs. established automakers, those absolute numbers will probably look relatively small.

You say it yourself "legitimate safety defect"
That's not the case here, the car gave OP time to pull over to a safe location, had the car just went dead in the middle of the freeway while he was driving it then yes I agree that's unsafe, but he received a warning!

The problem here is our definitions of a safety defect are completely different.

edit: Cwerdna I don't know if you've seen the thread about the tesla driver that hit the cyclist in Santa Cruz, the driver fell asleep and is blaming the new car smell for that.
In your opinion, should he report that to NHTSA?

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

You say it yourself "legitimate safety defect"
That's not the case here, the car gave OP time to pull over to a safe location, had the car just went dead in the middle of the freeway while he was driving it then yes I agree that's unsafe, but he received a warning!

The problem here is our definitions of a safety defect are completely different.

edit: Cwerdna I don't know if you've seen the thread about the tesla driver that hit the cyclist in Santa Cruz, the driver fell asleep and is blaming the new car smell for that.
In your opinion, should he report that to NHTSA?

Much as Bonnie said, what's the harm in reporting anything and everything? Let NHTSA be the one to cut out the noise and see patterns and trends. We do want Tesla - the company and the stock - to succeed but, full disclosure throughout (and Tesla being proactive about fixing things) is better than unwelcome surprises later IMO.

 

[AMPd]

Much as Bonnie said, what's the harm in reporting anything and everything? Let NHTSA be the one to cut out the noise and see patterns and trends. We do want Tesla - the company and the stock - to succeed but, full disclosure throughout (and Tesla being proactive about fixing things) is better than unwelcome surprises later IMO.

The harm would be when a news organization points out all the NHTSA reports but leaves out the details, and people who see that article without looking at the actual complaints will stay as far away from Tesla as possible, just because "have you seen all the complaints NHTSA received about tesla"
"I heard the car sucks, NHTSA has been receiving a ton of complaints about it"

I know, I know most people might look into it further, but I'm willing to bet more likely than not most readers will stop after the article and just go with it.

as far as unwelcome surprises go, it's a car, you cannot be 100% certain that nothing will go wrong, regardless of how many complaints are filed.

 

[Ugliest1]

... I'm willing to bet more likely than not most readers will stop after the article ...

Or the headline.

 

[Electricfan]

I would (will, if it happens to my Model S) report this. If your car stops and strands you its a safety issue, regardless of the warning (obviously I don't mean for a flat tire - for something major like the 400lb li-ion battery has a problem). And in Houston rush hour traffic you probably won't make it to the side of the road before it quits, as it can take quite a bit of maneuvering in heavy traffic to reach the side of the interstate. And you're definitely not safe sitting on the side of the interstate in rush hour. So yes, its a safety issue.

I bought the car on the premise it would be more reliable than a conventional car. I still believe that will be the case. But its such a revolutionary vehicle, to me its all the more important we keep all issues transparent, open, not hidden or swept under the rug. If there's a battery problem and all "A" batteries should be replaced (just an example, not saying this is the case at all), the only way we'll get that done is through reporting issues like this.

Thanks Bonnie for the pacemaker battery example - perfect illustration of why to report safety issues.

 

[walla2]

I would (will, if it happens to my Model S) report this. If your car stops and strands you its a safety issue, regardless of the warning.

So if you get a flat, run out of gas, or get a check engine light that requires you to pull over, one should report this to the NHSTA based on being stranded? Again, things breakdown. Moving things fail, humans included. If I had felt unsafe, I'd without a doubt be talking to Tesla and the NHSTA. I did not feel unsafe. I felt like I needed roadside assistance. I think even had I been in rush hour traffic, I would have felt the same.

 

[AMPd]

I would (will, if it happens to my Model S) report this. If your car stops and strands you its a safety issue, regardless of the warning (obviously I don't mean for a flat tire - for something major like the 400lb li-ion battery has a problem). And in Houston rush hour traffic you probably won't make it to the side of the road before it quits, as it can take quite a bit of maneuvering in heavy traffic to reach the side of the interstate. And you're definitely not safe sitting on the side of the interstate in rush hour. So yes, its a safety issue.

I bought the car on the premise it would be more reliable than a conventional car. I still believe that will be the case. But its such a revolutionary vehicle, to me its all the more important we keep all issues transparent, open, not hidden or swept under the rug. If there's a battery problem and all "A" batteries should be replaced (just an example, not saying this is the case at all), the only way we'll get that done is through reporting issues like this.

Thanks Bonnie for the pacemaker battery example - perfect illustration of why to report safety issues.

No body is sweeping it under the rug, the problem was reported to the right people, TESLA!
Someone here already said it (don't remember the user, sorry) but reporting it to NHTSA is like telling the government to make tesla do something they're already doing!

Personally I trust TM and Elon Musk, I believe they keep safety their number one priority. They've already proved that in the past.

 

[cwerdna]

Speaking as someone that most would immediately point to as a fangirl (and wow, do those terms irritate me as dismissive) and someone who has a fairly large portion of their portfolio invested in TSLA, I have to agree that potential safety issues should be reported to BOTH Tesla and NHTSA.

(I'll wait for a moment while you all pick yourselves up off the floor.) ...
...
Keeping potential safety information out of the NHTSA seems like a good idea at first glance. But it really isn't. And I'm speaking as a huge supporter of Tesla, as one who would call Tesla first, and would probably ask them if they reported it voluntarily.

My two cents.

- - - Updated - - -

And cwernda, I also have to agree that it would be nice to see you contribute in other areas of the forum, rather than focused just on what needs to be reported.

Thank you for chiming in. As for my focus, take a look at my posts in the last month or two. Outside of this thread, most of them have nothing to do w/reporting safety defects to NHTSA.

I do not consider this a safety issue and will not be reporting this to the NHSTA. The car warned me. Gave me time to get to a safe place and I never felt unsafe. No other car I've owned ever would give me a warning and let me drive further.

That fact that it quit running when you weren't out of charge is a safety defect.

I think the part you're missing is that no one here thinks this is a safety issue. The car warned him, and he had a chance to pull over and have it taken care of. It didn't put him in a dangerous situation.

There are several here besides myself who think it is. See above. Warning isn't good enough. It isn't supposed to happen w/sufficient charge.

You say it yourself "legitimate safety defect"
That's not the case here, the car gave OP time to pull over to a safe location, had the car just went dead in the middle of the freeway while he was driving it then yes I agree that's unsafe, but he received a warning!

The problem here is our definitions of a safety defect are completely different.

edit: Cwerdna I don't know if you've seen the thread about the tesla driver that hit the cyclist in Santa Cruz, the driver fell asleep and is blaming the new car smell for that.
In your opinion, should he report that to NHTSA?

Again, it shouldn't have stopped.

As for the cyclist case, from the sniff test, it sounds like a BS excuse, but I don't know all the details. Unless there are compounds given off by the car's interior that are proven/known to cause humans fall asleep, then it's the driver to blame, not the car.

Much as Bonnie said, what's the harm in reporting anything and everything? Let NHTSA be the one to cut out the noise and see patterns and trends. We do want Tesla - the company and the stock - to succeed but, full disclosure throughout (and Tesla being proactive about fixing things) is better than unwelcome surprises later IMO.

Yep!

So if you get a flat, run out of gas, or get a check engine light that requires you to pull over, one should report this to the NHSTA based on being stranded? Again, things breakdown. Moving things fail, humans included. If I had felt unsafe, I'd without a doubt be talking to Tesla and the NHSTA. I did not feel unsafe. I felt like I needed roadside assistance. I think even had I been in rush hour traffic, I would have felt the same.

As for flat or running out of gas, it depends. If it's a flat due to a safety defect in a tire (not a road hazard) or a fuel gauge w/calibration that's WAY off (e.g. runs out when still pointing to way above empty), then that's something that's worthy of reporting to NHTSA. As for check engine light by itself, no. If you lose power suddenly, yes.

BTW, the Gen 3 Prius recall I referenced FINALLY has some documentation. I really hope some of you doubters/naysayers will spend the time to read them:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM450077/RCAK-14V053-1068.pdf
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM450071/RCDNN-14V053-0945.pdf - this has the meat of the info

From NHTSA's site

RECALL Subject : Inverter Failure may cause Hybrid Vehicle to Stall
Report Receipt Date: FEB 12, 2014
NHTSA Campaign Number: 14V053000
Component(s): HYBRID PROPULSION SYSTEM
Potential Number of Units Affected: 700,000
...
Manufacturer: Toyota Motor Engineering & Manufacturing
SUMMARY:
Toyota is recalling certain model year 2010 through 2014 Prius vehicles. In the affected vehicles, the Intelligent Power Module (IPM) inside the inverter module (a component of the hybrid system) contains transistors that may become damaged from high operating temperatures. If this occurs, various warning lamps will be illuminated on the instrument panel and the vehicle will have reduced power allowing it to only drive a short distance.
CONSEQUENCE:
The vehicle may enter a fail-safe/limp-home mode that limits the drivability of the vehicle. The hybrid system could also shut down completely resulting in a vehicle stall, increasing the risk of a crash.
REMEDY:
Toyota will notify owners and dealers will update the software for both the motor/generator control electronic control unit (ECU) and the hybrid control ECU, free of charge. If an owner experiences a failure of the inverter before the vehicle receives updated software, the dealer will replace the inverter assembly with a new one at no charge. The recall is expected to begin in late February 2014. Owners may contact Toyota at 1-800-331-4331.
NOTES:
Owners may also contact the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Vehicle Safety Hotline at 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), or go to Home | Safercar -- National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).

 

[Electricfan]

So if you get a flat, run out of gas, or get a check engine light that requires you to pull over, one should report this to the NHSTA based on being stranded? Again, things breakdown. Moving things fail, humans included. If I had felt unsafe, I'd without a doubt be talking to Tesla and the NHSTA. I did not feel unsafe. I felt like I needed roadside assistance. I think even had I been in rush hour traffic, I would have felt the same.

That was funny - as you were posting this I was editing my post with almost exactly your words! But I hope I answered your question in my edit. The battery is a major, expensive component, and it has the potential to be extremely dangerous. So any big problem that required it be replaced should be reported.

 

[cwerdna]

No recall needed. Toyota's problem is systematic whereas the issue reported here is random failure. Although, A packs do seem to have a rather high failure rate.

And how does someone experiencing the failure know that it's a "random failure" vs. "systematic"?

I didn't say there should be a recall. I merely strongly suggest those who have experienced a legitimate safety defect (not user error) should file a safety complaint w/NHTSA, and it'd be better to do it once the issue has been resolved so that it's known what was down to remedy/attempt to remedy it, if anything.

If NHTSA believes there is a systemic issue, they might initiate an investigation which might lead to a recall. And, if there's a recall, that means a free repair to improve the safety of the affected vehicles, possibly yours. Often investigations are never begun and sometimes investigations are closed.

To revisit these claims of "random failure" vs. "systemic" involving the recall of 1.9 million Priuses. Toyota recalls 5500 Prius cars claims

Toyota says there have been no warning lights or failures on Priuses sold in Australia, but that 450 owners worldwide had experienced the issue, which led to the global recall campaign

So, if you do the the math of 450 / 1,900,000 = ~0.0236%. That was enough to cause a recall!

If you multiply that tiny percentage by 30,000 (let's assume there are 30K Model S on the road now), you get ~7.

I haven't followed every single of Model S reported here that suddenly lost power (not due to HV battery depletion) and left the driver stuck, but I think there have been more than 7. And, we know not every single Model S owner is here on this forum. The membership numbers are insufficient.

If they all go unreported to NHTSA and if there Tesla employees involved in the process who are just as dismissive about cars suddenly losing power as "not" being a safety issue...

 

[pbleic]

So, if you do the the math of 450 / 1,900,000 = ~0.0236%. That was enough to cause a recall!
If you multiply that tiny percentage by 30,000 (let's assume there are 30K Model S on the road now), you get ~7.

Understand the math, but the recall is only for certain models of Prius. 700,000. (450/700,000)*30000 = 19.

Also, these 450 were presumably all from the same mechanism, triggering a recall. I haven't heard that there is a common mechanism involved with the Model S failures reported here. I am sure there have been FAR more than 450 Prii with various different types of engine failure.

 

[FlasherZ]

Each time that I've tried to draft some sort of an addition to this conversation, I end up erasing the post because it's all been said before and there are those that continue to persist that government is the solution to all problems. I'd just suggest we leave the trolls alone and go back to our days.

And, for what it's worth, I will not be reporting to the NHSTA that I experienced a failure and had to pull over last night, requiring a tow to the service center. Seems something best handled by Tesla, not some overstocked bureaucratic BS organization.

To Bonnie: your example was quite different and required cross-manufacturer and cross-servicer coverage; in this case, Tesla has all the IP, all the service data, and should and can make the calls. In our world right now, the NHSTA is merely a "me too" body, called to come in with a sledgehammer and bully people around -- and worse yet, it's used as a weapon against new technology in this case. Completely different set of circumstances.

(Oh no! What will the trolls do now that they can't downvote me for suggesting that government is not Tesla's mommy?!)