What the Heck is up with Autopilot?

[calisnow]

If I had to guess, it sounds like Tesla put in more code to do processing to do things like slow down for curves, don't take exits, etc. So the car computer is now busier doing more things and it is occasionally running out of time to process basic TACC. I could be wrong, but that's what it feels like to me...

It does sound logical but the Mobileye CEO said in his talk last year (link is here on TMC somewhere) that the Eyeq3 is using only about 10% of its processing power in its current application. He made it sound like there is tons of computing headroom.

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I'm nearly certain it uses the radar for distance and secondary detection, and the camera is used to detect what the obstruction is and where (identifying trucks as trucks and things like that)

Well I hope there is still much optimization and AI which can be engineered into the software with the current hardware. On the other hand development might slow down/stop for this version of AP if they are pouring their resources into programming 2.0 in the "lab" at headquarters.

 

[tstafford]

I've experienced TACC aggressively approaching stopped traffic at a light several times. Each time it has happened in the same location. And each time I have taken over rather than gutting it out to see if it would slam on the brakes. The road is a five lane non-divided 45 mph limit. The light is at the bottom of a dip in the road. My guess is that the sensors can't handle the approach angle to stopped cars in the dip eventhough I can see them plainly. I can't be sure that the car would actually rear end a stopped car at the light but the speed is too much for me to not step in and brake.

 

[Chasedrgc1223]

TACC used to make me squirm on close stops which only occurred on highways. Even though it would get very close (and even give me a forward collision warning sometimes), I still trusted the car and let it stop. After this update and specifically this incident, I don't think I will trust it with approaching stopped traffic anymore, and I definitely don't have the same level of trust I did on 7.0. I desperately hope an update goes out to improve stopped vehicle detection.

 

[rxlawdude]

Curious. I have only found 7.1 to be an improvement from 7.0. Why are some suddenly seeing the opposite?

 

[Chasedrgc1223]

I have to admit, initially I did find it to be an improvement, especially in how it slows to a stop and follows cars. That is, however, until it began to not detect cars and/or not detect them quick enough.

 

[spcarso]

Same here rxlawdude. In California, we have horribly faded freeway lanes and 7.1 is much better at keeping me in lane. SO much better. Also, 7.1 seems much better at keeping me away from cars on the freeway compared to 7.0. Then specifically about braking with TACC enabled, I haven't seen any difference between the two. Just wanted to chime in that if it were software based we should all be experiencing the very same thing. (FYI - Car distance always set to 6, and warning on Early.)

 

[thegruf]

Just a thought - has anyone who is having problems with 7.1 tried a full reboot to see if this makes a difference?

 

[BrokerDon]

Same here rxlawdude. In California, we have horribly faded freeway lanes and 7.1 is much better at keeping me in lane. SO much better. Also, 7.1 seems much better at keeping me away from cars on the freeway compared to 7.0. Then specifically about braking with TACC enabled, I haven't seen any difference between the two. Just wanted to chime in that if it were software based we should all be experiencing the very same thing. (FYI - Car distance always set to 6, and warning on Early.)

Same experience for me in SoCal.

 

[jeffro01]

Same here rxlawdude. In California, we have horribly faded freeway lanes and 7.1 is much better at keeping me in lane. SO much better. Also, 7.1 seems much better at keeping me away from cars on the freeway compared to 7.0. Then specifically about braking with TACC enabled, I haven't seen any difference between the two. Just wanted to chime in that if it were software based we should all be experiencing the very same thing. (FYI - Car distance always set to 6, and warning on Early.)

I would agree with this statement FWIW. Had to take a long'ish round trip drive today to the south bay and overall found 7.1 to be much better at keeping it's lane, not hugging the concrete median and when it did drift to close to a vehicle beside me, recognizing that and moving over slightly. I also had no issues with TACC failing to see what was in front of me and adjusting the speed, including coming to a full stop, accordingly based on my set cruise speed and TACC distance setting (it was on 4). I did have one odd quirk with auto steer that was interesting, 101 was curving around a stretch and the car clearly was seeing the lanes but it simply didn't turn so I had to intervene. It's odd when the lane departure warning goes off when you're not the one in control of the steering... I didn't have any traffic on either side of me so I let it go to see if it would actually turn much longer than I would have had there been traffic, as it never turned... The lanes were marked with botts dots which the car was clearly seeing so I have no idea why it didn't turn. At least with 7.1 it knew the lanes were there which is an improvement over 7.0 when it couldn't detect the botts dots at all.

Jeff

 

[bradhs]

I've driving about 700 miles on 7.1 so far and I feel it is better than 7.0. There are a few areas where I had to take over, for example it got too close for comfort in the right most lane on 5 South where there was a construction barrier wall for about 1/4 mile.

 

[Chasedrgc1223]

I have tried multiple reboots as well as power cycles and nothing different. I think an important distinction to be made here is Autosteer vs TACC. I think we can all agree that 7.1 has improved Autosteer in terms of tracking lane markings and keeping some distance between lanes, but for me as well as many others, TACC has been negatively impacted, which can be seen in the instances mentioned in this thread.

 

[Majerus]

Just a thought - has anyone who is having problems with 7.1 tried a full reboot to see if this makes a difference?

I had to this morning prior to my accident. The cars audio was lagging out as well as touch controls. I then filled a bug report using the voice command as this is the second time since 7.1 has been install I have had to restart the MCU

 

[Andyw2100]

I think we can all agree that 7.1 has improved Autosteer in terms of tracking lane markings and keeping some distance between lanes...

Nope. Some people believe 7.1 has changed for the worse in this regard as well:

Elon: The AP Lane Keeping Bias to the Right is Not Safe, please fix!

 

[Todd Burch]

I believe the lane biasing is not better, and in many cases worse (after all, I'm the OP of that thread).

Control/smoothness in curves is better.

Staying straight vs. exits is much better.

Ability to see lines in low contrast situations is better.

Nagging is worse (get too many nags when it's not needed).

Staying straight passing through intersections seems a little better.

Staying straight when cresting hills is worse.

I have still not seen a single issue with TACC slowing me down approaching another car.

For the post above with the dashcam video where the car was merging in the highway and the driver had to take control, that looks exactly how it was in 7.0...and 6.2 with TACC as well.

 

[Andyw2100]

For the post above with the dashcam video where the car was merging in the highway and the driver had to take control, that looks exactly how it was in 7.0...and 6.2 with TACC as well.

I had meant to watch that video earlier, but got distracted. Thanks for reminding me!

I've also had similar issues since 7.1 on the highway with traffic traveling at 65-70mph. If I ended up catching up to a slower car in my lane, my MS would not slow to keep it's distance. My TACC distance is always at 6/7. This never occurred while on 7.0 even for merging traffic like in the video link below from my Blackvue cam. TACC did not slow for the car. It's obvious in the video how much time I gave TACC to react before I intervened. The car was displayed on my dash LCD as a vehicle directly in my path. My distance was set at 7.

Watching that video, I actually think that may be normal, improved TACC behavior, and I agree with Todd, to a point. I'm just not sure TACC worked that well back in 6.2, and I know it didn't when it was first released, but at some point between when it was first released and now Tesla improved it as follows, and I think that is what we see in the video.

When TACC was first released it didn't seem to take into account the speed of the car in front of you when deciding if it needed to slow down or not. All that mattered was the distance, and the speed your car was travelling. So, as an example, if a car passed you, and then immediately cut into your lane, even if it was travelling much faster than you, TACC would slow you down briefly, until the distance between your car and the target car had increased. At some point Tesla adjusted this, such that if it was obvious that the car was travelling faster than you, and that the distance between the cars would be increasing, the Model S would not unnecessarily slow down briefly, simply to maintain some preset mandatory gap.

In the video above, the car entering the highway is accelerating. By the time the driver manually slowed the Model S down, the two cars were probably travelling at close to the same speed, as evidenced by how quickly the car in front pulls away. I think the TACC software was accounting for the other car's speed and possibly even rate of acceleration, and not slowing the Model S unnecessarily, allowing less of a gap than normal, because it was only going to be for a very short time.

I definitely see this as an improvement in TACC over the way the first iteration functioned.

 

[Todd Burch]

Andy, agree. To clarify what I meant:

In 6.2, TACC didn't really account for the car's speed in front. If it passed you and pulled into your lane in front, the S would brake or regen because it was trying to strictly maintain following distance, even if the lead car was moving faster. Just as you say.

7.0 introduced a vastly smoother TACC, Which finally accounted for the leading vehicle's speed and allowed following distance to be smaller for a period of time while it gradually adjusted back. (7.1 improved this further and is outstanding at this, IMHO).

What I meant RE TACC having the same behavior as in 6.2 is that if a car is merging into your lane in front of you, it takes a moment for TACC to start tracking it for speed adjustments. It still does in 7 and 7.1, but is better now.

Even though it's better though, it's still not immediate so it's a good idea to always intervene when someone cuts in front of you and their speed is more than a few mph slower than you.

 

[drsaab]

I think it is now worse in stop and go traffic. If the car in front changes lanes it wants to follow that car and if it doesn't follow it , it will dart ahead to the next car in front in the same lane. If it does not see it fast enough there can be an accident.

On highway speeds it seems about the same as 7.0 since it uses lane markers over following the car in front like it does at very slow speeds.

 

[Chasedrgc1223]

I was hoping nobody would bring up the autosteer conflict thread. I just didn't want to get into it in that post haha!! I've been following that thread too, but it seems as if people here see more improvement than harm.

 

[jeffro01]

I think it is now worse in stop and go traffic. If the car in front changes lanes it wants to follow that car and if it doesn't follow it , it will dart ahead to the next car in front in the same lane. If it does not see it fast enough there can be an accident.

On highway speeds it seems about the same as 7.0 since it uses lane markers over following the car in front like it does at very slow speeds.

Odd, I haven't seen that behavior at all in 7.1. The car accurately has tracked cars coming in and out of my lane without darting or aggressively breaking. Situations like these are highly circumstance based so it's possible your circumstances have been different than mine.

Jeff

 

[qqragoon]

I had to this morning prior to my accident. The cars audio was lagging out as well as touch controls. I then filled a bug report using the voice command as this is the second time since 7.1 has been install I have had to restart the MCU

Agreed on the lagging. After 7.1 update, I feel sometimes multi-tasking (audio, auto parking, summon, live backup camera) lags the system. only use AP on freeway so far no incident happened on TACC as other people described on freeway.

- I had an audio control not working incident right after an interrupted auto-perpendicular parking. The CID decided reboot itself to recover the audio control.
- Also had a backup camera "crash" (see image below) after a manual stopped summon from remote control. I had to manually reboot the CID to get the backup camera bak in normal image. It's interesting to me they cut the image in half before display it? ...