We want some Model 3 Leaks, renders, sketches !

[aronth5]

Yes but Tesla will need to work to limit demand for superchargers. If Tesla meets it sales plans they will have 200 times as many cars on the roads in the US within 10 years. Some routes in California are having wait problems with 20 supercharges. That would mean that there would need to be 4000 superchargers along one highway just to meet demand (probably more as higher volume gives higher random variables). This is just not practical. Paying per charge doesn't help either as it won't limit supply during peak demand times.

I expect supercharging to be at least a $2000 extra.

Exactly, I just hope it's not that much. I'm hoping for a 1k extra charge. But as of now, we don't know ****.

Agree since we're essentially saying the same thing. Postpat, one item to note is that in 10 years range will be significant higher so for many owners supercharging usage will decrease and for some hardly needed at all.
This will certainly limit the demand for superchargers per car sold.

 

[Az_Rael]

Exactly, I just hope it's not that much. I'm hoping for a 1k extra charge. But as of now, we don't know ****.

I would imagine that if they charge Model 3 owners less than the $2500 they charge now for Model S owners, then they will also have to lower the Model S price charged. And then deal with unhappy Model S owners who did pay $2500 for the upgrade before the price drop. So my speculation is supercharging will either be included in the car price, or it will be $2500 as an option. The third possibility is some new pay-per-use system for the M3 owners that gets away from the all-you-can-eat model (which is probably unsustainable no matter how many superchargers they build).

 

[Lonnie123]

My opinion: Free Super Charging will be one of the features that distinguishes the S/X from the 3 and justifies the price difference. They literally have to shave $35,000 (50%) off the current base Model S... It aint gonna happen by savings on the battery and shrinking the car a little bit. Features will have to be cut. They will continue to "luxurify" the S/X while keeping the price the same

I spoke a bit about it in this thread (feel free to join in), as I think the base Model 3 will actually be very, very close to getting sold At Cost to manufacture in the beginning. The upgrades will be where Tesla makes money. Super Charging and Auto Pilot will essentially be a "free" (for Tesla) $4-5,000 added on to most of the Model 3's, creating the profit margin. Combine that with the battery upgrades and a few more premium options and you are now in the highly profitable range.

 

[1208]

I know I will get shouted at and sworn at for saying this and I don't believe it should be the case but what if S and X owners subsidised the super chargering for the 3s?

 

[jkk_]

I know I will get shouted at and sworn at for saying this and I don't believe it should be the case but what if S and X owners subsidised the super chargering for the 3s?

Is it really worth it though for anyone? Tesla could charge a nominal fee (say even 500$) for SpC access and gain plenty of funds without really looking too greedy. Of course some people would be cross because "boo-hoo why is it so cheap now" but that's just how technologies advance. You can get a much better television for a fraction of price today than you could get for a year ago.

 

[MassModel3]

You ******* ***** of ***************!

Seriously??? I know it's all in fun, but really???

Anyway...

When the S rolled out, supercharging was a $2500 option for cars with the 40 & 60 KW battery. All 85's had supercharging rolled into the purchase.

In concert with the introduction of the 70's, Elon announced an end to range anxiety, and that ALL Tesla's will always have free supercharging. Of course, any time he makes a blanket statement about Tesla cars, he ALWAYS and ONLY means from that point forward. So yes, there are a lot of 40 and 60 owners without supercharging, me being one of them. Unless it either becomes more affordable (pay per charge, annual fees, drop in price, etc.), or I suddenly have a need (increased driving), I'll probably never have it enabled.

By now Tesla knows the driving habits of electric car buyers. They have precise data for every Tesla ever sold, to include miles driven, where they charged (home, SC, destination chargers, etc.), and they know what they can get away with charging dollar-wise to either break even or come out at least slightly ahead. And they may not initially make the $35K promised cost of the Model 3, that may come later as the Gigafactory comes up to full production, but they will eventually hit that mark. The initial vehicles may be closer to upper 30's or closer to $40K, but they most certainly will have supercharging enabled.

The splitting of hairs, of course, is with saying "supercharging enabled". Does that mean fee-based? Time-of-day restrictions? One charge a week or a month that you can bank and use them all at once when you need to take a long trip? We won't know until March at the soonest. Elon could come out and say, "We're looking at creative ways to give everyone supercharging." I have no idea. ButI'm convinced it will at least be enabled on the cars, though restrictions may apply.

 

[Trev Page]

Seriously??? I know it's all in fun, but really???

Anyway...

When the S rolled out, supercharging was a $2500 option for cars with the 40 & 60 KW battery. All 85's had supercharging rolled into the purchase.

In concert with the introduction of the 70's, Elon announced an end to range anxiety, and that ALL Tesla's will always have free supercharging. Of course, any time he makes a blanket statement about Tesla cars, he ALWAYS and ONLY means from that point forward. So yes, there are a lot of 40 and 60 owners without supercharging, me being one of them. Unless it either becomes more affordable (pay per charge, annual fees, drop in price, etc.), or I suddenly have a need (increased driving), I'll probably never have it enabled.

By now Tesla knows the driving habits of electric car buyers. They have precise data for every Tesla ever sold, to include miles driven, where they charged (home, SC, destination chargers, etc.), and they know what they can get away with charging dollar-wise to either break even or come out at least slightly ahead. And they may not initially make the $35K promised cost of the Model 3, that may come later as the Gigafactory comes up to full production, but they will eventually hit that mark. The initial vehicles may be closer to upper 30's or closer to $40K, but they most certainly will have supercharging enabled.

The splitting of hairs, of course, is with saying "supercharging enabled". Does that mean fee-based? Time-of-day restrictions? One charge a week or a month that you can bank and use them all at once when you need to take a long trip? We won't know until March at the soonest. Elon could come out and say, "We're looking at creative ways to give everyone supercharging." I have no idea. ButI'm convinced it will at least be enabled on the cars, though restrictions may apply.

I'm setting my expectations thusly: Model 3 will be Supercharging capable (duh). But like the initial 40 and 60Kwh Model S, it will be a one-time activation fee at the time of purchase or can be done after purchase. Since we're talking about much higher production volumes of Model 3 I'd say the activation price is probably somewhere in the $1000-$1500 mark to cover the ongoing costs of Supercharger deployment upkeep and electrical costs. If Tesla says Model 3 *includes* Supercharging at no extra cost then that's even better. I have very extreme doubts that Tesla would ever impose fee-based charging. The Acceleration of Sustainable Transport™, is very dependent on frictionless adoption of Model 3. It's Tesla's ace in the hole above everyone else (I'm looking at you GM).

It's always better to set your expectations lower so you're not as disappointed when the specs are finally announced. Given the current vacuum of information about Model 3 it's easy and tempting to speculate and impose your wishes onto your expectations and that's a very dangerous thing to do.

If Tesla exceeds your expectations then it's win but let's not forget the non-folding second row seats of Model X, that's still a painful pill to swallow for some.

 

[ichorus]

I think this went off topic somewhere.
Would love to see some leaks

 

[Max*]

Yes but Tesla will need to work to limit demand for superchargers. If Tesla meets it sales plans they will have 200 times as many cars on the roads in the US within 10 years. Some routes in California are having wait problems with 20 supercharges. That would mean that there would need to be 4000 superchargers along one highway just to meet demand (probably more as higher volume gives higher random variables). This is just not practical. Paying per charge doesn't help either as it won't limit supply during peak demand times.

I expect supercharging to be at least a $2000 extra.

That's not how queuing works. If you build out more superchargers along the routes, not everyone will stop at the same ones, so you're distributing your load more evenly.

Also, the 20 car wait, happened once, during a holiday season, when a different road was closed due to (a fire I think?), on an already busy stretch of road. You can't assume that happens every week or even every month in CA.

And finally, if you look at the growth of superchargers, there were 113 superchargers added in the US in 2015. Extrapolate that, and worst case the growth is constant, in 10 years that's an additional 1,130 superchargers in 10 years. I'd imagine that once the Model 3 starts ramping up, superchargers will ramp up too.


I think the Model 3 wont have supercharging standard, but even if it does, I would expect Tesla to work out demand [available superchargers] issue before increasing the supply [cars that can supercharge] tremendously.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...When the S rolled out, supercharging was a $2500 option for cars with the 40 & 60 KW battery. All 85's had supercharging rolled into the purchase...

My recollection was that the 40 did not have Supercharging available but when it was decided to put 60kWh batteries in them, limited to 40 kWh usable, it was possible to upgrade to 60 then add Supercharging. And I believe that Supercharging was a $2000 option on the 60s if added at purchase. It was $2500 to add it later.

I'd be surprised if the base 3 has Supercharging included. I'd expect it as an extra cost option or as some sort of pay-as-you-go plan. We may not even find out all the details in March, or they may be subject to change...

 

[Chris TX]

When did he say that? Model S owners are having trouble at some superchargers getting charged because of lines. Imagine the problems once these Model 3's start rolling out.

Yes, I get model s and x owners getting free access because they are paying
70k+ for their car.

Le sigh:
Elon Musk Confirms Free Supercharging for Tesla Gen 3 (Model E) - Inside EVs

 

[gregincal]

Le sigh:
Elon Musk Confirms Free Supercharging for Tesla Gen 3 (Model E) - Inside EVs

From the article you just linked to: "We suspect that access to the Supercharger network will be an option for Gen 3 (so, some will undoubtedly say it isn’t free then)."

 

[Chris TX]

From the article you just linked to: "We suspect that access to the Supercharger network will be an option for Gen 3 (so, some will undoubtedly say it isn’t free then)."

Yeah, that's speculation from the author. That's not Elon's words. That was back when the Model S was only 60 and 85, with the 60 having the SC option. Now that the 70 and 85/90 are in full production, along with all the MX variants, SC is included at no extra cost.

 

[FlatSix911]

Agreed ... It’ll be optional... But once you pay for it, then access to Superchargers is "free".

January 31, 2014 Yesterday, in Munich, Germany, Tesla Motors CEO mentioned a Gen 3 (Model E) feature that had not been previously known.
Musk confirmed to the crowd of gatherers that Gen 3 will get free access to the growing network of worldwide Superchargers.
This, of course, will be a huge selling point for future Gen 3 buyers.

We suspect that access to the Supercharger network will be an option for Gen 3 (so, some will undoubtedly say it isn’t free then).
Our advice for future Gen 3 buyers is simple: opt for Supercharger access. Tesla’s Supercharger network is a game-changer for EVs

 

[vinnie97]

Is it really worth it though for anyone? Tesla could charge a nominal fee (say even 500$) for SpC access and gain plenty of funds without really looking too greedy. Of course some people would be cross because "boo-hoo why is it so cheap now" but that's just how technologies advance. You can get a much better television for a fraction of price today than you could get for a year ago.

Doesn't always apply to TVs from a pure PQ standpoint. Pioneer's last plasma actually held its own against the competition for years (even today some folks would only give them up if you pried them from their cold, dead fingers, etc.). And to really get comparable PQ from an LCD, you have to pay beacoup money for a high-end multizone full-array local dimming set or a newfangled OLED TV. Apologies, I realize this is more of an anomalous exception than a rule.

 

[tga]

Doesn't always apply to TVs from a pure PQ standpoint. Pioneer's last plasma actually held its own against the competition for years (even today some folks would only give them up if you pried them from their cold, dead fingers, etc.). And to really get comparable PQ from an LCD, you have to pay beacoup money for a high-end multizone full-array local dimming set or a newfangled OLED TV. Apologies, I realize this is more of an anomalous exception than a rule.

The first 1080p plasma generally available was the 50" Pioneer Elite Pro-FHD1 at $8,000. After a while, they weren't selling well, and Pioneer started discounting them and throwing in a free lower end 50" 720p set to sweeten the deal. I managed to score the local dealer's last BOGO deal. I still have both sets today, and wouldn't trade the FHD1 for any of the LCD crap I've seen. OLED's are nice, but still too pricey. I'm keeping the plasmas until they die or 4k OLED's get really cheap (and 4k content becomes ubiquitous)

 

[MassModel3]

My recollection was that the 40 did not have Supercharging available but when it was decided to put 60kWh batteries in them, limited to 40 kWh usable, it was possible to upgrade to 60 then add Supercharging. And I believe that Supercharging was a $2000 option on the 60s if added at purchase. It was $2500 to add it later.

Correct on both points. I bought used and for me it was always only available at $2.5K so I had that stuck in my head as the cost for SC for a 60 (or 40's with a 60). :redface:

 

[Reeler]

 

[gregincal]

<pic>

Model S alpha. See here for instance:

Tesla 'Car of the Year' is Getting More Expensive - Drivers Seat - WSJ

 

[Reeler]

Model S alpha. See here for instance:

Tesla 'Car of the Year' is Getting More Expensive - Drivers Seat - WSJ

Found the image in a Model 3 article that showed in my Facebook yesterday. Looks smaller than the Model S. Also nicer shape than what the Model S ended up being.

If the Model 3 looks this nice, the Chevy Bolt is dead on arrival.