Various thoughts on Model S

[100thMonkey]

my perspective as a Leaf owner may turn out to be radically dwarfed after owning an S, but the main reason we are thinking of going with the HPWC is that after learning a lot about batteries, I've come to the conclusion that I will try and keep the S at around 50% charge to baby the battery (li-ions like to live at 50% for longest life). the HPWC will allow me to do this while still being able to increase the charge rapidly on short notice, making up for some of the lost convenience of keeping the battery at a lower state of charge.

Oh I see....well darn it maybe I should not have bought the HPWC - although it does look pretty cool. Then I could then keep the mobile charger it comes with in the car - if it doesn't melt in the Texas heat. But I'll never have to charge it out in the wild b/c of it's long range. That would only be if I take a road trip. And if I didn't have the HPWC, I could then just bring the charger with me after making sure it had 9:26min of charging time. ...and then I couldve bought the little backward facing car seat for about the same price as the jump seats if I remember correctly.

Well whatever. I know I dislike having my iPad 3 take forever to fully charge, so Id probably feel worse b/c this is a car that needs to get me places. What if I come home late, need to leave early, and then drive far? (Admittedly, this would be such a super duper rare occasion. I've done this maybe three times in my life).

Anyway actually I'd prefer to have the HPWC just for it's looks and was thinking about adding the jump seat anyway just today. I wonder if it's too late to add that to my order once I've locked in?

 

[jerry33]

I've come to the conclusion that I will try and keep the S at around 50% charge to baby the battery (li-ions like to live at 50% for longest life).

You might want to read this (post #39 hcsharp) and then rethink your plan because different LiIons have different requirements. Keeping the Tesla battery at 50% will actually shorten the life. A daily standard charge is best for battery life.

 

[pguerra]

So let's make it simple: if all you're doing is overnight charging, that's right.

I do have a real use case for it though: frequently I'm out on business trips, and the St. Louis airport is ~65 miles from me (with no charging stations in the lot I park in). There are many trips -- a monthly basis or so -- where I come home on a Friday morning, the family packs, and then we head out for a run to my in-laws' roughly 150 mi away. I'll be looking for new parking lot candidates - ones that might offer a charging station - over the next year or so, but I'm not aware of any.

Take away the high-speed charging need then consider the convenience. Will you need to carry your UMC with you to charge elsewhere? Frequently? Will you mind unplugging the 14-50 and coiling the cord neatly in the trunk/frunk on a daily basis (I have a 14-50 welder that's a BEAR to unplug), or would you keep the first UMC in the car and buy another UMC (rumored $500) to coil up and hang in the garage? In the end the price differential for another UMC vs. the HPWC is on the order of $700 - would you pay for double-speed charging for that $$?

HPWC for me. Thanks! I'm keeping the HPWC. But still debating on the jump seats. Biggest concern is that after 77lbs, it is useless. One son 4 yrs old. How many yrs left of use...

 

[FalconNinetyD]

Well my 9yo daughter is only 51 lbs, depends on genetics and how much they eat!

 

[Liz G]

With the likelihood of getting my configuration email Tuesday, I'm P3259, I decided to take a small detour while heading home from Upper Michigan and swing by the Oak Brook store in hopes of getting enough information to finalize my S config.

Spent 2 hours in the store grilling the poor Tesla folks. Ok the first 1/2 hour was actually spent staring at the grey interoir with lacewood and the tan with piano black. Decided to go with the tan and piano black, had previosly decided on the blue exterior.

Thought I would share some of the tidbits I icked up.
1. With the res no. 2359 I can order the 60kWh and still get it this year. No worries.
2. Not getting the tech package will not affect/alter any touchscreen functionality other than the turn by turn nav. In all other ways the touch screen will function the same.
3. Getting the upgrade stereo does add functionality to the touchscreen. Forgot exactly what, probably just sat nav though
4. Auto keyless entry (tech package) will not cause the door handles to extend as you approach the car, at least not yet. Was told it would probably be a simple upgrade later. Door handles would only extend if the key fob was pressed or the door handles were pressed. Auto keyless entry would just unlock the doors allowing the handles to extend when pressed.
5. App would most likeli include the following features.
Ability to track the cars location
Climate controll
Notify you if alarm goes off
Notify you, via alarm, if charging is interupted. Someone cuts the cord or tries to pry it out of your car
Would not include6.
Ability to open pano roof remotely
6. You cannot lock the key fob in the car
7. If both key fobs are in the car the settings on the first key fob to enter the car take precedence on driver set up. At least that's how I understood it.
8. Drivers settings can be associated to each key fob.
9. Car should be plugged in every night.
10. For best battery life, set to charge as slowly as possible. This can be configured in the touchscreen. Ie. Even if you could charge in 2 hours but you've got 8 hours to plug it in. Set it to charge slowly over the 8 hours.
11. No tire pressure monitoring at this time. Though Tesla will know
12. The car will be sending data back to Tesla about itself all the time
13. The pano roof does not have ability for the rear of the glass to tilt up. Opening the pano roof always happens from the front.
14. The app that allows you to see how far you can travel depending on speed etc will be included in the touchscreen. In addition it will include the locations of charging stations and indicate the best speed and points of charge for your trip.
15. You can plug your phone into the usb port and have it connected via bluetooth at the same time. Bluetooth connection is required to access the phone via the touchscreen. Music can be accessed via usb connection.


Ok that was all I could remember. Hope you find it helpful.

One other thing. I was really happy to see that Tesla wants you to get the best car for you. I was trying to decide between the 300 mile battery or the tech package, I couldn't afford both. After talking thru the options and my needs with the Tesla rep he suggested I go with the the 230 mile and tech package as I would get everyday enjoyment out of the tech package vs only needing the 300 miles a couple of times a year. He could have pushed me towards the 300 mile battery, as that would have gotten Tesla an extra $6k, but instead he pushed me towards what was best for me. Can't say I've ever experienced that with any other car dealership I've gone to.

 

[JRP3]

Ahhh but you are assuming that they have not already done that.

True. Anyone sit in the back seat and poke at the foam to see how deep it is? Do the seats feel hard?

 

[Liz G]

One other comment. Something I noticed during my test ride in Chicago. In the car with a solid roof the roof over the back seats is lower than the roof over the front seats. If you look you can see that the roof drops quite a bit, half to 3 quarters of an inch, right behind the front seats, about the same place as the placement of the bar in the piano roof and it doesn't go back up. I've got it on video. I'll will try to post if I can.

 

[contaygious]

Yeah I don't fit in the back without pano roof.

For the the sound system it adds the screen that lets you move the center position of the stereo around e..g, on the driver seat. It also adds Dolby on/off, but I prefer off.

Auto keyless entry with door latches extending is coming in update. Also you can program the car to lock the doors when you walk away. Not sure if you need tech for that.

 

[ModelS1079]

In response to question about my source for 60kWh hardware being included but not enabled:
Larry, this is from a direct conversation with my configuration specialist at the Palo Alto area showroom, Friday, Aug 10th. I had just been told in White Plains that the 60Kwh battery would have the Supers=charge hardware included, and was shown this on the design/configuration website as well, while in the NY showroom. By phone, the CA specialist noted that Tesla was planning to enable the 60kWh supercharge hardware for a fee; after I noted that seemed misleading in light of the new web posting (which clearly says supercharge hardware is included), he indicated that he thought that, although the hardware was included, there would be a separate fee later to enable it. Would welcome further clarification if you come by it.

 

[ModelS1079]

Your thoughts are absolutely welcome and encouraged, however not in sticky threads that aren't for general discussion, and definitely not cross posted to multiple threads. Please post to a more appropriate discussion thread (or create your own), then edit these posts down to just a link to that post.

Just a rookie TMC maneuver; I tried to post on another thread and thought it did not take, tried another but it ended up on it's own. Note taken. Still don't know what a sticky thread is. Damn. But I know a nice car when I see one.

 

[ModelS1079]

I took a test drive so I'll answer: it's a must-have because the handling is awesome and the ride is very smooth. Like combining the best of a sports car and a luxury car suspension. I think the Tesla rep told me that the car was originally designed for the air suspension and they added the standard suspension in after but don't know if that's really true. The rep considered the air suspension and the premium sound the two best "bang for the buck" upgrades.

Did not test drive, but after reading reviews (individual and trade reviews), and seeing the car lift and drop in the showroom (how cool is that?), it seems a (relatively) small price to pay for a big jump in enjoyment of the car. Ditto on speaker upgrade as noted above. As per Liz G, I am saving with a 60kWh battery, and instead enjoying the tech package, speakers - and air suspension.

 

[MikeK]

13. The pano roof does not have ability for the rear of the glass to tilt up. Opening the pano roof always happens from the front.

Yes, but to open, the back has to tilt up in order for it to roll back over the top of the roof. My impression was that "Vent" did exactly that. Tilt the back up but not roll the roof back. So, perhaps it just has to move back a little bit?

 

[100thMonkey]

thanks for the link. Certainly I've got lots more reading to do before delivery. what I'm doing with the Leaf now should work great. I think ahead a bit, charge up enough to get me back to the ranch with roughly 50% for overnight (reduces cladding of anode/cathode), then start over using an end timer for the next days driving. The depth of discharge on a daily basis is kept to a minimum. I avoid going below 30% SOC and above 80%, it's my understanding that between 30% and 50% SOC has the lowest propensity for cladding. my approach would avoid stressing the battery by not driving it at a low SOC. I doubt there is that much of a difference in chemistry between the Leaf and the S, but I have not looked into it deeply yet. what I've found with our driving patterns is that the vast majority of our driving happens in relatively short jaunts, so full fast charges are rarely necessary and will be much less so with the 85 kW S pack. I'll have a much better sense of this once I become more familiar with the charging options of the S and put some miles on it in real life. I may conclude that it's just not worth thinking much about with the standard mode option and TMS. The Leaf's current challenge with heat and lack of TMS has us thinking a lot more about charging habits, I suspect the intent with the design of the BMS of the S is to reduce the need to think about it so much.

You might want to read this (post #39 hcsharp) and then rethink your plan because different LiIons have different requirements. Keeping the Tesla battery at 50% will actually shorten the life. A daily standard charge is best for battery life.

The cathode in Li ion batteries forms defects (microcracks) due to stress caused by expansion and contraction relative to neighboring materials. It is simply bigger or smaller depending on whether it's charged or discharged. The more you discharge it, the more it changes size. And the more it changes size, the more microcracks it gets. These microscopic cracks lower the battery's capacity. That's one reason why smaller cycles, more often, contribute to longer battery life. That's why you should plug it in every night.

Heat aggravates the microcracking process, so keeping your battery cool contributes to longer battery life. And guess what? Your battery heats up more when used at a lower SOC because it requires more amps to keep your car going 65mph than it does at a higher SOC. That's why you should charge it every night.

Capacity fade also comes from the build-up of non-soluble deposits on the anode and cathode. This chemical process happens faster when the battery is warmer. It also happens faster when at a high SOC. But the process slows to a crawl when you drop the SOC to 80 or 90%, and slows only a tiny bit more at 50%. So if you are going to drive your car, keeping it charged in std mode has less impact on battery life (lower amps, less heat) than driving at a lower SOC. But if you're not going to drive your car for a few days, there are no amps or heat to worry about. That's when Tesla recommends putting it in storage mode, which keeps it at a lower SOC.

end of science lesson.

 

[Liz G]

Yes, but to open, the back has to tilt up in order for it to roll back over the top of the roof. My impression was that "Vent" did exactly that. Tilt the back up but not roll the roof back. So, perhaps it just has to move back a little bit?

Perhaps the rep was mistaken then. Or perhaps it just lifts and slides in conjunction so you cannot just tilt it open. I'm just relaying the info the rep gave me when I asked. He did not demonstrate. Though he seemed very certain you couldn't just tilt the rear of the glass. Perhaps Rod and Barbara will be kind enough to shed some clarity on the functioning of the pano roof.

 

[brianman]

Perhaps we need to see what "1% open" means for the Panoramic Roof.

 

[JRP3]

Still don't know what a sticky thread is. Damn.

A thread that is pinned to stay at the top of each forum so it doesn't get pushed down with newer threads.

 

[Larry Chanin]

In response to question about my source for 60kWh hardware being included but not enabled:
Larry, this is from a direct conversation with my configuration specialist at the Palo Alto area showroom, Friday, Aug 10th. I had just been told in White Plains that the 60Kwh battery would have the Supers=charge hardware included, and was shown this on the design/configuration website as well, while in the NY showroom. By phone, the CA specialist noted that Tesla was planning to enable the 60kWh supercharge hardware for a fee; after I noted that seemed misleading in light of the new web posting (which clearly says supercharge hardware is included), he indicated that he thought that, although the hardware was included, there would be a separate fee later to enable it. Would welcome further clarification if you come by it.

Thanks for the elaboration.

Did you get the impression that this fee was just for the the 60 kWh cars, or for all cars?

Thanks.

Larry

 

[ModelS1079]

Thanks for the elaboration.

Did you get the impression that this fee was just for the the 60 kWh cars, or for all cars?

Thanks.
Larry

The specialist clearly indicated that the additional fee to enable supercharging hardware to function was for only 60kWh cars, as the specialist noted that the 85's would be enabled at time of vehicle purchase, and the 40's were too sensitive to have the supercharge hardware (too much heating and degredation with supercharge). Perhaps the most significant impression I took away is that Supercharging, which is direct DC-to-DC charging, apparently contributes significantly to degredation if used routinely. Hence, I am hoping there will be, say, 70-80 Amp chargers available as well that will benefit from Twin Chargers onboard (the internal Tesla dual AC to DC chargers) - taking more time than Supercharge, much fater than regular charging, but taking less life from the battery. Feedback from BatteryTechies welcome, and from anyone who hears more about the supercharge plan for 60 kWh cars. Thanks.

 

[BryanW]

S1079, this is why I ordered the twin chargers. I won't need them at home, as I will only be using the HPWC on a 240/50 amp line. (I know I could go with an outlet, but I want the HPWC for looks, and for any visiting Model S passing through Utah and stopping in for drinks and a visit). For the majority of my road trips, I think I will be able to get by just fine with the twin chargers going at 70-80 amps while I get a meal. As long as they have this option, I should rarely need to supercharge, thus sparing the battery. I was originally going to get the single charger, but the more I thought about this possibility, the more the twin charger made sense, even though I won't need it at home.

 

[contaygious]

Do they even have twin charging stations? I thought supercharging would be more common. I don't want to pay for twin charger to wait hours anyway so skipped that option.