Two days with Model 3 impressions/review- This is not a mini model S

[S3XY]

Here are a few features they S and X have, that "the 3 doesn't and possibly won't ever have."

Hatchback
72 Amp charger
Panoramic windscreen (X)
Auto open and close front doors (X)
Falcon wing rear doors (X)
two screens
Bio-defense HEPA air filter
Free supercharging
Heated steering wheel and windshield wipers
High res backup camera

However, the 3 has the advantages listed in earlier posts. I think I am going to like it more than my S.

GSP

Unless I missed it I can't believe no one mentioned the S/X's performance advantage.

 

[Pollux]

I finally drove my hubby's 3 today.
The only things I'd like to add to the already glowing reviews wrt comparison to my AP1 S are:
1) Overall, the car is an awesome accomplishment for Elon and Tesla
2) I love the large sun visors on the 3.
3) I think the visibility is amazing, esp to the front. I would like a larger rear-view mirror. It seems too short from side to side for me.
4) The turn indicator is strange! There's no hard click to put it on, just two soft ones that don't obviously stick. It's hard to explain. I do not understand it well yet. But I'm sure I will adjust.
5) I find the center screen very easy to use. As said upthread, the clarity is superb. It does seem to get more glare than the one in my S, but I do have a tinted pano roof in the S and maybe that's the difference?
5) Very sporty, fun, nimble, and tight. Love it!
Very proud of Tesla.

I'm just going to state for the record that @JenniferQ is awesome even if I can't tell anyone why!

Thank you, @JenniferQ!

Alan

 

[JoshG]

4) The turn indicator is strange! There's no hard click to put it on, just two soft ones that don't obviously stick. It's hard to explain. I do not understand it well yet. But I'm sure I will adjust.

This has bothered me too, but I found one reason why they made the turn signal stalk return to middle rather than sticking in its down or up spot until steering wheel releases it mechanically after a turn. With the "hard" turn signal now able to be cancelled by software rather than mechanical means, there are some new capabilities. This is seen when doing an auto-lane-change during autopilot driving. On a Model S, you have to manually "unstick" the turn signal stalk after autopilot completes its lane change. On a Model 3, it's very cool that the car just turns off the turn signal itself when it has completed the lane change. Having driven many autopilot miles on a model S, I really like this new change to the Model 3 turn signal stalk for this reason. It's awkward and fussy to have to cancel your own turn signal after the lane change. Yes, on a Model S you can just hold the turn signal stalk in the "gentle up/down" location until the lane change is done, but if you let it go too soon, the car swerves somewhat jarringly back to the lane it started in as it assumes you changed your mind about the lane change! All in all, the implementation on the Model 3 is better.

 

[onautopilot]

All directions, including to the rear? I ask because a recent review was notably critical of rear visibility.

Thanks for the detailed review!

I just read the Electrek article too. I actually haven’t noticed a lack of visibility to the rear. I think the visibility was generally great in all directions. I may be a little enamored with the car right now though. So I reserve the right to change my opinion

 

[e-FTW]

The rear wheel drive makes it even more obvious. You can break the rear end loose! I'm not talking about drifting here. But if you drive aggressively around a corner the rear will slip out a bit. The model S (AWD version) will go exactly where you point it, its unflappable that way. The rear wheels just don't break loose. The model 3 is very different. Its umm... playful. Like a sports car. The steering is light and sprightly. You feel the bumps in the road. If you goose the accelerator while going around a turn the rear wheels will break loose. Its really different. Its more fun. You could put driving skills to more use than the S, and have a good time doing it. I wasn't expecting this aspect. But I'm not disappointed.

That is what I love about my RWD Model S 70. It feels alive!

 

[JenniferQ]

This has bothered me too, but I found one reason why they made the turn signal stalk return to middle rather than sticking in its down or up spot until steering wheel releases it mechanically after a turn. With the "hard" turn signal now able to be cancelled by software rather than mechanical means, there are some new capabilities. This is seen when doing an auto-lane-change during autopilot driving. On a Model S, you have to manually "unstick" the turn signal stalk after autopilot completes its lane change. On a Model 3, it's very cool that the car just turns off the turn signal itself when it has completed the lane change. Having driven many autopilot miles on a model S, I really like this new change to the Model 3 turn signal stalk for this reason. It's awkward and fussy to have to cancel your own turn signal after the lane change. Yes, on a Model S you can just hold the turn signal stalk in the "gentle up/down" location until the lane change is done, but if you let it go too soon, the car swerves somewhat jarringly back to the lane it started in as it assumes you changed your mind about the lane change! All in all, the implementation on the Model 3 is better.

I'm so glad you wrote about this, because I only have AP1 in my S, and once I got the 3's AP calibrated today, I noticed just that! No more do I have to cancel the indicator after a lane change. Much easier!

 

[MP3Mike]

I was curious about this so removed the plastic insert pieces from my model 3 frunk and couldn't find a cabin filter there as in my model S. Unless it is accessible instead from the cabin side, the model 3 has none.View attachment 270405

The version of the Model 3 manual that I have only says this:

Cabin Air Filter
Model 3 has an air filter that prevents pollen,
industrial fallout, road dust and other particles
from entering through the vents. The air filter
should be replaced when necessary. Contact
Tesla.

 

[North75]

This has bothered me too, but I found one reason why they made the turn signal stalk return to middle rather than sticking in its down or up spot until steering wheel releases it mechanically after a turn. With the "hard" turn signal now able to be cancelled by software rather than mechanical means, there are some new capabilities. This is seen when doing an auto-lane-change during autopilot driving. On a Model S, you have to manually "unstick" the turn signal stalk after autopilot completes its lane change. On a Model 3, it's very cool that the car just turns off the turn signal itself when it has completed the lane change. Having driven many autopilot miles on a model S, I really like this new change to the Model 3 turn signal stalk for this reason. It's awkward and fussy to have to cancel your own turn signal after the lane change. Yes, on a Model S you can just hold the turn signal stalk in the "gentle up/down" location until the lane change is done, but if you let it go too soon, the car swerves somewhat jarringly back to the lane it started in as it assumes you changed your mind about the lane change! All in all, the implementation on the Model 3 is better.

I always thought most modern cars are like the Model 3. My last 2 BMW’s don’t lock the stalk up or down. I’m pretty sure my wife’s Acura is the same. In the BMW you can either push the stalk up or down to cancel a signal. It’s always seemed easy enough to me. For some reason I just assumed that all cars that have the soft 3 blink position don’t lock the stalk in the full position. I guess I don’t drive enough different cars.

 

[suwaneedad]

Let me clarify I mean on future vehicles only. I wouldn’t expect the current system to be upgradable. If the refreshed interior was designed with an upgradable screen/GPU module, that would be amazing. Unlike an iPad, it wouldn’t need the same components in such a small, lightweight space. No battery either. Getting a quality screen that can survive the elements is trivial in these quality quantities.

As to the percentage that would upgrade, I don’t believe it would be a small fraction. Maybe you do it every 24 months. And, don’t forget, the latest goes into every new car. Even if it’s just a bullet point (“This first upgradable screen and graphics processor in a vehicle ever”) could still trigger sales. People like knowing their investments have some futureproofing.

A Model S with upgradable battery pack, Autopilot hardware, and center screen would be the most futureproof vehicle ever made. Two of those three are already possible and easy, if not cost prohibitive for now.

A year or so ago, Elon upgraded something in S and a reasonable question at the time was whether existing S owners would be able to bring their cars in for upgrade (this may have been autopilot upgrade, I don't recall). Elon's reaction was pretty violent and swift, ranting about he can't slow down innovation by getting distracting with retrofits. For someone like me, who owns cars F O R E V E R, this was a bummer and my immediate thought was "Tesla owners ought to lease." That said, I'm happily buying my 3, largely because I expect that it will be the last car I ever buy. Either because during its lifespan America migrates to car-sharing in earnest and my vehicle ends up in the Tesla Network, or because by the time I'm done with this car's useful life, owning cars in America will be quaint (as Elon says, like owning a horse).

 

[cwerdna]

4) The turn indicator is strange! There's no hard click to put it on, just two soft ones that don't obviously stick. It's hard to explain. I do not understand it well yet. But I'm sure I will adjust.

I'm haven't driven the 3, but I'm guessing it's strange to anyone not used to BMWs and/or Minis (BMW has owned them for awhile). (raises hand as I'm not a BMW guy)

I always thought most modern cars are like the Model 3. My last 2 BMW’s don’t lock the stalk up or down. I’m pretty sure my wife’s Acura is the same. In the BMW you can either push the stalk up or down to cancel a signal. It’s always seemed easy enough to me. For some reason I just assumed that all cars that have the soft 3 blink position don’t lock the stalk in the full position. I guess I don’t drive enough different cars.

What you describe about your BMWs seems to be a BMW-(and Mini-)only thing which they switched to years ago. I've never driven any other cars with that goofy turn signal.

Not sure what your timeframe of "modern" is, but my '13 Leaf has the traditional lock stalk up/down until you turn the steering wheel a certain amount. I'm pretty sure this was the case on the pre-production '18 Leaf I drove almost a month ago. I can't think of any non-BMW and non-Mini cars that I've rented or test driven in the past 5 years that has the goofy BMW/Mini behavior. I'll probably be test driving a few new cars at an auto show in a few days.

My 06 Prius, my former 04 Nissan 350Z, former 02 Nissan Maxima, my dad's former 02 Toyota Rav4 and my mom's 07 Altima Hybrid all have the traditional stalk behavior.

 

[Ulmo]

This is by far one of the most informative reviews I've ever read, seen, heard, experienced, or in any way input about the Model 3.

Having real customers owning the car obviously has made this review outcome a huge difference. All of the industry insider news mags, company employees under NDA, etc., never gave any type of review like this.

It also helps that the owner has owned a Model S AWD like I have, so that I understand their comparisons.

This is the first time I think I have an idea of the actual feel of the Model 3, and just from reading some text. Great job!

 

[Ulmo]

This is a massive problem to me. There’s no way the “flagship” S should be allowed to have an inferior UI. It’s inexcusable for a vehicle twice the price or more. Yes, I understand they’re differently sized vehicles, but they’ve had plenty of time to plan. An S interior refresh to surpass the 3 should’ve been announced already for delivery when the 3 was launched.

I have a day one 3 reservation and my S is coming off lease in April. I can’t imagine getting a new S in 4 months with an inferior screen/cluster.

I wish car leases were 6 month. Then we wouldn't have to worry about any of this.

 

[Canuck]

This is by far one of the most informative reviews I've ever read, seen, heard, experienced, or in any way input about the Model 3.

Agreed. Thanks @onautopilot for such a thorough and well written review. The only thing I didn't like about it is that we don't get the 3 up here until "late 2018" and reading your review makes the wait so much harder!

That said, I'm happily buying my 3, largely because I expect that it will be the last car I ever buy. Either because during its lifespan America migrates to car-sharing in earnest and my vehicle ends up in the Tesla Network, or because by the time I'm done with this car's useful life, owning cars in America will be quaint (as Elon says, like owning a horse).

How old are you? I'm 52 and I highly doubt I will see in my lifetime owning a car being like owning a horse was in the past. Elon is overly optimistic about timelines (understatement of the year so far?). I admire the guy greatly but to think we can live on Mars when we can barely figure out how to live down here with an environment already in place leaves me wondering if he's some kind of a mad genius.

 

[Ulmo]

For the Model S, that's a really weak list for over twice the price. It doesn't even have a range advantage.

I agree.

Come on Tesla, let's see that interior/tech refresh. I mean, at least add the X's auto-open front doors already. You can do it!

I disagree: while I lamented loudly and often about Tesla not doing improved S and X sooner, at this point, that is water under the bridge, and for the time being, they are focusing on the Model 3. During this time, there will be a situation in which the Model 3 has:

• The only Tesla vehicle with premium suppliers
• The only Tesla vehicle with the premium products from the premium suppliers
  
• The only Tesla vehicle with the best supplier teams
  
• The only Tesla vehicle with the latest manufacturing experience
• The only Tesla vehicle with the latest Tesla knowledge and technology
• Most of the newest manufacturing attention for automobiles at Tesla

For the time being, the Model 3 will have all the best attention.

Then, Tesla has a lot of new vehicle models coming, which will incrementally introduce models that each have their own niche that fits some market segment better than the Model 3:

• Tesla Semi, for those of you with big loads (this is Tesla tiptoeing into the industrial end of mobile equipment, transport, mobile energy, trucks, tractors, etc.; they might not even try anything past semi for quite some time, if ever, or they could retool the Fremont factory for a full range of electrified industrial equipment after they finish their next version road vehicle manufacturing robots installed in Nevada.)
  
• Model Y, a bus-like Model 3 (think minivan/SUV/wagon/X)
• Roadster 2020, an actual all-Tesla Roadster
• Pickup

Then, finally, updates for Model S and Model X can be considered. It may well be 2025 by the time Model S and Model X are redesigned much, and by then, Lucid Air will have taken over. (Looks like Germany is all about weak compliance cars now; Germany is weak lately. And the rest of Europe and Asia is playing catchup. China may have the only other luxury EV comparable to USA manufacturers like Lucid.)

On the other hand, maybe Tesla wants to keep its Model S & X market share, and will do a redesign on them in 2018 and 2019. But I think we shouldn't expect anything very soon. Because this is a legitimate question, once we start to see comfortable S curve numbers on Model 3 production (comfortable from the point of view of stockholder longs and uncomfortable from the point of view of stockholder shorts), I'm certain that Tesla will be feeling pressure to explain where the Model S and Model X are going from potential customers in that market segment. Therefore, I'd be unsurprised to hear news from Tesla about this in 2018. At that moment, we can see how committed they are to finally fixing S & X, or if they are just going to do another refresh, update, revisit, revamp, or uninspired refinement, without any understanding why the market is asking for stuff to get done. (I have a sinking feeling not one Tesla employee has ever owned a Mercedes S class or even higher end E class, Cadillac Escalade, or Ford Expidition, and most can't even afford the newest mid level or even low level ICEs.)

 

[Ulmo]

I just read the Electrek article too. I actually haven’t noticed a lack of visibility to the rear. I think the visibility was generally great in all directions. I may be a little enamored with the car right now though. So I reserve the right to change my opinion

Awesome! I love a bonafied disagreement mystery.

 

[Shock-On-T]

I wish car leases were 6 month. Then we wouldn't have to worry about any of this.

Sounds like long-term Turo rental.

 

[JeffK]

This is a massive problem to me. There’s no way the “flagship” S should be allowed to have an inferior UI. It’s inexcusable for a vehicle twice the price or more. Yes, I understand they’re differently sized vehicles, but they’ve had plenty of time to plan. An S interior refresh to surpass the 3 should’ve been announced already for delivery when the 3 was launched.

I have a day one 3 reservation and my S is coming off lease in April. I can’t imagine getting a new S in 4 months with an inferior screen/cluster.

The model S is not twice the price.
The base Model S plus premium upgrades is 43% more than an equivalent Model 3 (long range battery, premium upgrades, and larger wheels, dual motors (< $5000) )
With that you still get smart air suspension, HEPA filter, nearly all aluminum body, self presenting door handles, another display, supercharger credits, hatchback, larger vehicle, quicker vehicle, and infinite mile/eight year drivetrain and battery warranty.

Unless the Model S is redesigned to be easier to manufacturer, it's always going to be more costly to produce and won't have the quality the Model 3 is capable of, simply due to the human factor. If/when the Model S is redesigned, it's likely going to be after the Model 3 ramp up. H2 2018 at the earliest (wild guess).

Also the S is hardly the flagship. The goal of the company was always Model 3. It's their pinnacle achievement and the result of the original master plan. It is the most important product that they've produced to date and will affect the most people. If you want to look at the highest performance vehicle, it's going to be the future Roadster.

Think of the S as simply a larger more premium vehicle that will often have certain features before Model 3, similar to a BMW 5 series vs a BMW 3 series.
Elon Musk on Twitter

 

[suwaneedad]

Agreed. Thanks @onautopilot for such a thorough and well written review. The only thing I didn't like about it is that we don't get the 3 up here until "late 2018" and reading your review makes the wait so much harder!



How old are you? I'm 52 and I highly doubt I will see in my lifetime owning a car being like owning a horse was in the past. Elon is overly optimistic about timelines (understatement of the year so far?). I admire the guy greatly but to think we can live on Mars when we can barely figure out how to live down here with an environment already in place leaves me wondering if he's some kind of a mad genius.

I'm 46. I own cars for 18 years routinely. If in 2035 car ownership in America is similar to how it is today, I will eat a Model 3 steel-belted radial (preferably the 19" fitment). The major change will be autonomy, of course, at which point I'll just summon a vehicle to my door as needed rather than owning one. This is why I expect M3 to be my last owned vehicle; autonomy/summon/sharing will arrive in earnest before my M3 has reached the end of its useful life.

 

[JoshG]

It may well be 2025 by the time Model S and Model X are redesigned much

I'll take the other side of that bet. In fact, I'm willing to bet a comprehensive interior redesign of the Model S is available before mid 2019. (In all likelihood, it will be by mid 2018, but decided to give myself a little wiggle room.)

 

[Waiting43]

On the other hand, maybe Tesla wants to keep its Model S & X market share, and will do a redesign on them in 2018 and 2019.

Maybe??