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TSLA Investor Discussions
- Thread starter Fr23shjive
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Citizen-T
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Did you guys watch the presentation and Q/A from the shareholder meeting? It is up on TM's website now.
2012 Shareholder Meeting | Tesla Motors
There was definitely some new information. Some things I took away with me:
1. Supercharger network announcement that Elon promised in July is going to have something to do with solar
2. Tesla is doing something around battery swapping after all (this was a huge surprise to me)
3. Elon has obviously given some thought (perhaps even had discussions w/ Larry Page?) to offering a self-driving Tesla
4. Definitely 5-stars in all categories (not just overall)
6. Break-even point is somewhere around 8,000 units a year
I'm sure there were others, that's just what I remember off the top of my head.
2012 Shareholder Meeting | Tesla Motors
There was definitely some new information. Some things I took away with me:
1. Supercharger network announcement that Elon promised in July is going to have something to do with solar
2. Tesla is doing something around battery swapping after all (this was a huge surprise to me)
3. Elon has obviously given some thought (perhaps even had discussions w/ Larry Page?) to offering a self-driving Tesla
4. Definitely 5-stars in all categories (not just overall)
6. Break-even point is somewhere around 8,000 units a year
I'm sure there were others, that's just what I remember off the top of my head.
Supercharger stations that use solar and grid power to charge packs.... that you swap into your car as you arrive!
...not likely, I know.
Citizen-T
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It wasn't clear to me from the Q&A whether the battery swapping thing was related to the charging network announcement or not. I imagine that the two are related, but didn't want to jumpt to that conclusion.
Green-Car Credits: Automakers' New Way to Cash In - Businessweek
According to this article, the Model S generates 7 credits with each sale. Selling these green credits to other auto makers can fetch $5k-$10k each. That's $700M to $1.4B in credits alone, for each 20,000 Model S cars sold.
According to this article, the Model S generates 7 credits with each sale. Selling these green credits to other auto makers can fetch $5k-$10k each. That's $700M to $1.4B in credits alone, for each 20,000 Model S cars sold.
2x to 3x crumple front crumple zone distance
rear collision requirements are real low, so Model S resists 50MPH off-center rear collisions (4x to 5x better than requirements)
millions of miles on the car through accelerated life testing
1/10th to run Model S compared to similar performance premium sedans
only all aluminum sedan made in north america
aspiration is to have "no defect rate" as opposed to "low defect rate"
every Model S is taken onto the test track
Elon's Model S is indeed black
June 22nd event will hand over 10 cars
And now I have to leave, this is only about 10 minutes into Elon's talk...I'll finish this later today
rear collision requirements are real low, so Model S resists 50MPH off-center rear collisions (4x to 5x better than requirements)
millions of miles on the car through accelerated life testing
1/10th to run Model S compared to similar performance premium sedans
only all aluminum sedan made in north america
aspiration is to have "no defect rate" as opposed to "low defect rate"
every Model S is taken onto the test track
Elon's Model S is indeed black
June 22nd event will hand over 10 cars
And now I have to leave, this is only about 10 minutes into Elon's talk...I'll finish this later today
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Solar panels can generate about 150W per square meter in full sunlight. The 300 mile Model S has an 85kWh pack which can be fully recharged at a supercharger station in 45 minutes. That's 113.3 kW continuously, assuming perfect charger efficiency, so I'll round up to 120kW. In order to generate 120kW at 150w/square meter in full sunlight, you need 800 square meters of cells, or an array 28 meters on a side. But that's not realistic, because the sun is not directly overhead all day. In reality, you'd probably need an array 3 times that size. Something like 100 feet by 300 feet. Basically, approaching a football field.
^ Plus, most folks park their car in a garage when not driving it.
I personally think that battery swapping is economically unviable, due to the large inventory of spare batteries needed, and the reluctance of people to accept batteries of unknown condition in return for their own new battery. It only works if the battery is leased, but in that case you're tied to the swap company, which only works if they have swap stations everywhere and are solid enough they won't go bankrupt and the creditors take back your battery and leave you with a useless car.
That's the right way to use solar.
I personally think that battery swapping is economically unviable, due to the large inventory of spare batteries needed, and the reluctance of people to accept batteries of unknown condition in return for their own new battery. It only works if the battery is leased, but in that case you're tied to the swap company, which only works if they have swap stations everywhere and are solid enough they won't go bankrupt and the creditors take back your battery and leave you with a useless car.
You are making an assumption that all of the paneled stations would be supercharging stations. That isn't how the current and proposed infrastructure model works. No one is reasonably going to run their vehicle battery down to near-zero and then wait for supercharger availability. A more likely scenario is someone parking at work, running errands, or flying somewhere. I can run to Whole Foods and top off about 3o miles of "refueling" while I shop. That is just on a standard NEMA plug and for now, it's free to me as an enticement to shop there. I can do the same thing at any airport - drive in on a low battery and the car will be fully charged when I return.
On the array, you don't have to have stationary panels. They could be mounted on a tracking array on the roof of a nearby building to provide the optimal angle for any given time of day, if you want optimal output. Tracking mounts aren't all that expensive, relative to stationary mounts.
The biggest problem with using an array and panels (anywhere, any kind, and of any size) is that you can't store the juice unless it is hooked to some kind of battery backup syatem or is grid-tied.
Instead of having a football field-sized grid (I didn't double check your calculations, but am going along with your assumptive model), you would want them to be part of a hybrid-grid-tied or just plain grid-tied system where you would generate some juice from the panels, sell the excess solar energy generated to the grid when the "fueling" stations aren't in use, and then take the net metering or net billing credit from the utility to offset the cost of the grid-pulled juice. You could still do supercharging in this manner and it would be more cost effective than either pulling all the juice from the grid or installing what would otherwise be an off-grid panel system that would be a waste of capacity when not at full utilization.
Accounting for system efficiencies at every step in any kind of electrical power generation and utilization (especially solar) are critical.
I'm off topic for this forum, so I'll quit, but there are many ways that Elon and company can tie Tesla and SolarCity components together to create a lot of really neat possibilities for infrastructure support - one company can enhance the other. It has great potential for a symbiotic relationship.
...if you build it, they will come!
I had to read that section 3 times!
$5,000 to $10,000 dollars extra per car for selling credits? I know that won't last forever and it's just in CA (right?) but is this not something to tell all the "not a profitable company" naysayers?
Huge I tell ya... Huge!
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
FalconNinetyD
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