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It is not my intention to try to make you stop posting. I am skeptical of chart analyses and will continue to post my opinions. I hope you will continue to post yours. I do not understand why crossing the 50 or 200 day moving average is significant, or why we should expect the price to stay above or below once it crosses that line. But I read your posts with interest. I'm not a short-term investor and I doubt I ever will be. But learning what motivates others, or how they make decisions, is always interesting. Do keep posting. I will also. I think the short-term fluctuations are a drunken walk, or Brownian motion, sufficiently chaotic to be unpredictable. Contrary opinions are always welcome.

I'm not going anywhere, don't you worry. In fact, here is a really, really long post with various thoughts.

Rather than opinion I present you with fact: I'm up 120% on TSLA alone so far this year by watching the "drunken walk" and making moves based on it. My trading log says I've made 12 good trades and 2 bad trades in TSLA this year. That is not the kind of performance I expect to see from something that is "sufficiently chaotic". Just because you can't predict the moves doesn't mean they are unpredictable.

If you don't have a good understanding of why these things are important, or don't have the time and inclination to learn why they are important, that's fine. I don't advocate that everyone should do chart analysis or try to capitalize on this kind of volatility. In fact, if you don't have the time and inclination I would say DO NOT make short-term trades, you'll get killed.

That said, if you don't understand, participating in an argument about whether a move is technically significant or not seems pretty silly. You can dislike it if that is your persuasion, but the vast majority of professional investors use technical analysis to decide when to buy and when to sell. So realize that you are an amateur ridiculing something that you admittedly don't understand which is the industry standard. Even if you are right and it is just numerology, the fact that all the big money playing in the market is looking at the same thing makes it worth paying attention to. A sort of self-fulfilling prophecy if you like.

I welcome a discussion with anyone that is looking at the same chart and seeing something more or something different from what I saw. The comment about the low volume of the previous failed rallies was a very welcome addition to the conversation.

How about an example? Again, rather than opinion I present you with fact:

Screen Shot 2012-09-19 at 10.08.01 AM.png


Is it purely by chance that the blood-letting yesterday stopped right at that red line, or did I tell you the day before that the probability of falling back below that red line was less than the probability of staying above it?

I was able to save some of my winnings from Monday by selling a bit at ~$32.50 and buying back when we touched that red line. Did I get lucky? Maybe. Did I take a calculated risk that was measurable? Absolutely. Is it still possible that in the coming days I'll be proven wrong and we will eventually fall below that red line, then the green one? Yeah, sure; but, the probability of that happening is less than the probability that we stay above it based on my calculations.

As always, any new news has the ability to completely disrupt these probabilities. Other's much smarter than I would beg to differ, but in my experience, this analysis is only valid in a vacuum. So when the news changes, I throw it all out the window. As an example: I made a comment some months ago that the 200-day was going to $35 and I was sitting on my hands until then. We stayed on that path for several days and my confidence was building, then news of production delays showed up in our forums which completely voided my predictions. I threw the whole plan of attack out and sold a chunk that day at ~$35.50.

Screen Shot 2012-09-19 at 10.23.55 AM.png


Now, that was a great trade, but I incorrectly predicted that the 200-day or 50-day would be able to stop the selling after that news. I was wrong. One of my 2 bad trades this year was trying to buy back at that 200-day, which was far too early.

The reason that your comment about what the stock price was last year or whatever wasn't valid is because the new technical cycle only started after the sell off from that bad news. Furthermore, you'll note that we were stuck in that pattern of being unable to break through the 200-day while there was a news void. When we received the good news that production was ramping up better than the streets latest expectations, we again broke through the barrier (for the better this time). Now I believe we have entered a new technical phase, one where those lines provide support not resistance. If I'm right, what the stock did last week is just as irrelevant as what it did last year.

Again, news has the potential to send us right back below that line. For instance, if the supercharger announcement is a big letdown, or is so expensive a project that it brings Tesla's cash position back in question, we could be right back where we were last week.

While I don't suppose that I've convinced you that this stuff works, I hope I've at least given you the impression that we aren't just reading tea leaves here. There is a process, with rules, and math to be done; and, its effectiveness can be measured. So, while I don't expect you to adopt this strategy yourself, dismiss it out of hand at your own risk.
 
I think the short-term fluctuations are a drunken walk, or Brownian motion, sufficiently chaotic to be unpredictable. Contrary opinions are always welcome.

+1 - As Cali would have said, there is no reason for these wild swings. The charts work just as well as anything else and they'll work until they don't.

It's much easier to pick the game-changer fairly early and then hang in through the turbulence. Those who saw the revolution of iPod/iTunes and invested in it for the long term made money. Those who saw the revolution of Google's simple/elegant and yet effective search engine/marketing model made money. Likewise, iPhone, iPad, etc. I was blind to all of them but the iPad, but when it came out, I was against buying individual stocks. With Tesla, I see another paradigm shifter, and this time I'm ready.

Edit: I think Citizen-T's analysis is good and for those with the stomach and time, it might be a good strategy.
 
RE: Citizen-T's #2981 post...
I would liken it to power running to your house. The fluctuation in power (in the extreme case brownouts) has some patterning to it, and often you could make more-than-weather-forecast-reliable predictions about it. But there are meta events, like unplugging your house from the grid, that trump the patterns.

One key point where I disagree with his commentary is the measure of "12 good trades" vs "2 bad trades". These are not generally comparable. The number of trades is far less interesting than how much those trades gained or loss. When I was doing some aggressive options activity one year, I had over 200 trades in one year. Only like 5 were "bad trades", but the amount of loss on those trades effectively cancelled out like 100 "good trades".
 
But he's up 120% on those 12 good and 2 bad trades. Wished I had the insight and stomach that he had to make those trades, I would be a Sig owner now, versus being very nervous about wether I can really afford the 60 kWh pack...

Btw. I reluctantly bought 100 yesterday at $31, in the hope to make some gain before I have to cut Tesla the check in (hopefully) December.
 
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I'm not going anywhere, don't you worry. In fact, here is a really, really long post with various thoughts. <...snip...>
Thanks. I appreciate the long, detailed posts.

OTOH, a rising tide floats all ships, and the market is up about 25% since January '09. I do wish you and all the others here the best of luck. You're up 120%. Scaling to the approximately $6,000 I have in TSLA, would I gamble $6,000 in the hopes of winning $7,200? No, I wouldn't. Would I gamble $6,000 on the long-term success of a company I consider well-managed, that is engaged in what I consider a socially beneficial enterprise? Obviously, yes.

I'm curious as to whether you are trading in other stocks as well, or just Tesla? (Obviously, you don't have to answer.)

(I'll answer my own question: I have tiny positions in three other companies that I like. I bought them several years ago and just sit on them. My real investments, the ones I live off of, are mostly mutual funds and a few bond issues. On occasion, on the advice of paid professionals, I sell something and buy something else, but only rarely, and for reasons related to the fund or company, never to try to capitalize on short-term market movements.)
 
OTOH, a rising tide floats all ships, and the market is up about 25% since January '09. I do wish you and all the others here the best of luck. You're up 120%. Scaling to the approximately $6,000 I have in TSLA, would I gamble $6,000 in the hopes of winning $7,200? No, I wouldn't. Would I gamble $6,000 on the long-term success of a company I consider well-managed, that is engaged in what I consider a socially beneficial enterprise? Obviously, yes.

I think (I could be way off here) by "up 120%" he means he has more than doubled up. That's plausible in my book. I've been following the same technicals for the last year, and paired with knowledge of the company and access to news early (forums) this stock has been very good to trade. I've learned to trust my own conclusions and to also start believing in the fact that with my interest in TSLA I'm actually most of the time "ahead of the market" when it comes to hearing and especially understanding/interpreting news. I'm up 30% in the last 9 months, but about half of my position I ser as core (long long) while the other halve I trade (so I guess my traded position is up 60%).

I do agree though with brianman, it can take just one poor trade to cancel out even hughe gains over night. However, in that scenario I'd think a really long position would also sugfer.
 
There is a process, with rules, and math to be done; and, its effectiveness can be measured.

There is also, however, that the belief that it works affects the behavior of enough people playing the game that it does end up working after all. That you allude to "Big Money" using this analysis is consistent with that belief.

For instance, if enough money thinks the stock will drop until the red line, then the stock price will continue to drop until it reaches the red line, at which point enough money thinks that's the bottom and so starts to buy, thus preventing the stock price from dropping below the red line. So, even if this wasn't true, that enough money believes it to be true makes it true.

Now, anyone want to tell me whether the cat in the box is dead or alive? :wink:
 
For instance, if enough money thinks the stock will drop until the red line, then the stock price will continue to drop until it reaches the red line, at which point enough money thinks that's the bottom and so starts to buy, thus preventing the stock price from dropping below the red line. So, even if this wasn't true, that enough money believes it to be true makes it true.

This is how the world works. If you can convince enough people that something is possible - it will be possible!
Or just concvince yourself - and you can do anything, absolutely anything!
Stock, media, everything seems to follow these rules.
tough to actually learn and implement properly(but doable)
 
This is how the world works. If you can convince enough people that something is possible - it will be possible!
Or just concvince yourself - and you can do anything, absolutely anything!
Stock, media, everything seems to follow these rules.
tough to actually learn and implement properly(but doable)

You are absolutley correct. Remember the original "startrek"?

the flip open communicators? flip phones and cell phones now exist.
the "pads" they used to use to take notes on? we now have tablet computers, in fact the iPad seems to have been directly inspired by StarTrek

I don't want to be FIRST in line, but in the first group of 10,000 that gets to try out the "transporter" :)
and who's up for a ride on the enterprise? thats comming too, look out Space-X :)
 
Thanks for the explanation of the Technicals Citizen T. I think I could be successful with short trades in Tesla If I had the time. As it is I am still levering my position with options. This is my first time in the market and I am 28. I have about 70 percent of my position betting on the next 6 months to a year. If i lose everything I will be fine ... I consider it a low price to pay for future success in the market. Keep up the informative post please.
 
I'm starting to wonder if JP knows absolutely nothing about GAAP or whether he's just being deliberately obtuse. That latest article is plain gobbledygook.

He's mixing up working capital with pure cash and suggesting that Tesla's financial situation worsens as deposits are converted to revenue, totally ignoring that those deposits are only a fraction of the total revenue stream from finalized car sales. Huh?

It was stated here on TMC and plenty of other places months ago, that Tesla might sail close to the wind from a working capital perspective but they had the back-up of a remaining $33million to be drawn down from the DOE loan and income from the development services for Daimler which only started in Q2. That said, we also have to remember that the situation improves with every car delivered (conversion of inventory to revenue and profit) and Tesla has a whole bunch of cars being delivered already and what's starting to look like hundred's in the next four weeks.

The big banks don't always get it right but generally they tend towards caution. Let me see Merrill Lynch & Morgan Stanley or John Petersen...experienced, successful financial analysts or a blogger who doesn't appear to understand basic accounting.....hmmm, who would I bet on being right?
 
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