TrueDelta.com

[Kandiru]

By the angry red face avatar next to Model S so far not looking good, hope that once more owners join in things will look more balanced. If you read carefully the problems are mostly trivia, but 200 mile roundtrips are not my cupatea.

Do we know if the "rangers" will fix anything in one's driveway and if unable bring loaner?

 

[mkaresh]

I'll have an updated stat for the 2013 soon. It looks there will be a slight improvement.

We continue to especially need more 2014s. Ended up two short of the absolute minimum this time around.

Join TrueDelta

 

[rdrcrmatt]

Signed up.

 

[mkaresh]

Thanks!

We especially need more 2014s and up. The revised cars, with the new motors and other changes, should be entered as either 2014.5s or 2015s. Officially still 2014s?

We have updated our reliability stats for the Model S to include owner experiences through September 30, 2014. Repair frequencies, in terms of repair trips per 100 cars per year:

2013 Model S: 99, high

This is a little better than earlier.

To view the repairs behind these numbers, check the stats for other cars, and sign up to help improve this information (next update in February):

Tesla Model S reliability ratings and comparisons

 

[mkaresh]

New stuff this time. We've updated our reliability stats for the Tesla Model S to include owner experiences through the end of 2014. Plus we've added reliability trends graphs. These indicate how a model's reliability has changed as it has aged, and how different model years performed when the same age.

Repair frequencies, in terms of repair trips per 100 cars per year:

2014 Model S: 109, high, very small sample size
2013 Model S: 83, high, but improving now that the initial bugs have been fixed

We have two additional statistics, "Nada-odds" and "Lemon-odds", to indicate the percentage of cars with no repairs in the past year and those that required 3+ trips to the repair shop:

2013 Model S: 52, 8

We'll have further updates in May and in August. The more owners participate, the more comprehensive and precise these will be. We especially need more 2014s and 2015s.

To see how competitors compare, and to sign up to help improve this information:

Tesla Model S reliability ratings and comparisons

Not much of a trend graph yet, since the cars are still fairly young and we have a sufficient sample for only the 2013:

 

[alternatename]

Just joined and added my 2014 Model S. I've only had it since December, but no issues so far.

 

[mkaresh]

Thanks, I do appreciate it. In the current round of the survey we have 18 responses for the 2014 so far--not enough for a precise stat, so every response really helps. We have 46 for the 2013--good, but more would be better.

For those who haven't yet joined, details here:

Join TrueDelta

 

[mkaresh]

We'll be publicly releasing updated stats this weekend. We won't yet have one for the 2015, but based on the small amount of data we do have on the newest cars they could have far fewer problems than the 2012s-2014s. I hope more owners of the 2014s and 2015s will join so we can provide precise stats for both years.

Note: if you have a D model bought in 2014, enroll it as a 2014.5. This will group it with the 2015s, which is where we have the AWD powertrains listed.

 

[chriSharek]

I added my 2011 Volt and will add my MS when I get it this summer. But, this data doesn't speak well at all for the MS. I did read the comments and they were all positive (mostly about the service), but still makes me slightly concerned. I'm NOT showing this data to my industrial engineer of a wife!

 

[mkaresh]

Thanks, I do appreciate it. Owners do report outstanding service.

Are you getting a new or used Model S? As I just mentioned, the 2015s are looking much better so far, based on a very small amount of data. The 2012-2013s have been improving, and it's possible that the 2014s will as well once the common first-year issues are out of the way.

 

[kuttakamina]

Thanks, I do appreciate it. Owners do report outstanding service.

Are you getting a new or used Model S? As I just mentioned, the 2015s are looking much better so far, based on a very small amount of data. The 2012-2013s have been improving, and it's possible that the 2014s will as well once the common first-year issues are out of the way.

On the other hand this is version 1 for dual motor. I wonder what sort of magic that might play. Your site is awesome by the way

 

[mkaresh]

I'd glad you like the site.

On the reliability impact of two motors, we'll see. So far, so good. While there have been some motor issues with the older cars, most of the problems have not been powertrain-related. The infamous door handles, of course. The steering rack that needed to be more securely mounted (made a noise, nothing major). And quite a few rattles with the earlier cars.

More owners joined yesterday, but nearly all of them have 2013s. The 2014.5-2015 count has been catching up with that for the 2014s. I'm getting the feeling that not many forum members bought a 2014 until the D became available...

They must have wanted AWD. No one really needs 691 horsepower, right?

 

[chriSharek]

I'd glad you like the site.

On the reliability impact of two motors, we'll see. So far, so good. While there have been some motor issues with the older cars, most of the problems have not been powertrain-related. The infamous door handles, of course. The steering rack that needed to be more securely mounted (made a noise, nothing major). And quite a few rattles with the earlier cars.

More owners joined yesterday, but nearly all of them have 2013s. The 2014.5-2015 count has been catching up with that for the 2014s. I'm getting the feeling that not many forum members bought a 2014 until the D became available...

They must have wanted AWD. No one really needs 691 horsepower, right?

The true delta site explicitly shows the poor reliability of the Model S. No question about it.

Having said that, I don't care. I am an early adopter too (bought my Volt in May of 2011) and understand the meaning of being on the cutting edge. I don't mind and like to showcase it. Bring it! cs

 

[TomServo]

Now that pre-owned Model S cars are being bought by a second owner should the new owner (after getting a copy of the vehicles service records) register that pre-owned vehicle and enter any issues it had in the hands of the first owner?

 

[mkaresh]

While I appreciate the thought, I don't think it's even possible to do this. For the stats, we only count problems that appear after the owner joins, so these definitely wouldn't count. It is possible to post repairs the occurred between buying the car and joining, but these won't count in the stats. I'm not aware of any other survey that works this way, which is partly why many people rightly distrust the typical non-random online survey.

 

[dhanson865]

Now that pre-owned Model S cars are being bought by a second owner should the new owner (after getting a copy of the vehicles service records) register that pre-owned vehicle and enter any issues it had in the hands of the first owner?

While I appreciate the thought, I don't think it's even possible to do this. For the stats, we only count problems that appear after the owner joins, so these definitely wouldn't count. It is possible to post repairs the occurred between buying the car and joining, but these won't count in the stats.

@TomServo

short answer: No


slightly longer answer: No, just enter anything that happened after you bought it.

 

[TomServo]

While I appreciate the thought, I don't think it's even possible to do this. For the stats, we only count problems that appear after the owner joins, so these definitely wouldn't count. It is possible to post repairs the occurred between buying the car and joining, but these won't count in the stats. I'm not aware of any other survey that works this way, which is partly why many people rightly distrust the typical non-random online survey.

Just so I understand, when I buy my CPO Tesla I can register it and report only those events that occurs on my watch?

 

[jbcarioca]

We all know there are anomalies that will appear in reliability rankings for EV vs ICE. Among those is the habit of EV builders, and Tesla especially, of anticipatory replacement of potentially defective parts, even if there has not been an actual failure. I have no idea of the incidence of such replacement in Tesla repair data that produces such dramatically worse reliability rankings. Obviously we all know there have been many more such replacements with tesla than with others. How many tesla owners have actually had vehicles disabled vs ICE equivalents? That probably is not really possible to determine to date dues to the inherent limitations of small sample sizes, on both Tesla models and the ICE equivalents. There are not so many failures that disable vehicles that such limited production vehicles can get enough user reports to be statistically valuable.

Access to manufacturer warranty data would nicely answer these questions, but that "ain't gonna happen".

 

[mkaresh]

Just so I understand, when I buy my CPO Tesla I can register it and report only those events that occurs on my watch?

Correct.

For the stats, we've always only counted problems that appeared after someone joined. This counteracts a potential source of bias that likely affects other reliability surveys.

- - - Updated - - -

I've now updated our trim level, pricing, and features information to match Tesla's latest. Trim levels we list for 2015 are 60 (though discontinued), 70D, 85, 85D, and P85D. I might even have the curb weights nearly right, those info on these has always been iffy.

If you enrolled a car and the correct trim level wasn't shown at the time, it now will be. I have changed a bunch of 85s to 85Ds (which I didn't list as distinct from the 85 earlier).

If your car was produced in late 2014, enroll it as a 2014.5 or 2015. This includes all P85Ds.

If your car is already enrolled as a 2014, and you need it changed to a 2014.5, just let me know (a reply to any of our emails will get to me quickly).

If you've not yet enrolled, please do. We especially need more pre-update 2014s and 2015s.

Help provide better reliability info on the Model S

 

[jvonbokel]

Not much of a trend graph yet, since the cars are still fairly young and we have a sufficient sample for only the 2013

I couldn't find that graph on the site. Is it available?