Texas continues the shenanigans

[GoBlue88]

Nissan Leaf made by a foreign manufacturer: qualifies for the rebate. Tesla Model S made by a domestic manufacturer: not so much.

http://www.tceq.texas.gov/assets/public/implementation/air/terp/ld/2014_ld_list.pdf

Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ) Light-Duty Motor Vehicle Purchase or Lease Incentive Program (LDPLI) Eligible Vehicle List
Last Updated – May 1, 2014

Electric and Plug-In Hybrid Vehicles

Refer to the Notice of Rebates (NoR) available at Texas Emissions Reduction Plan (TERP) for details and the eligibility requirements for on-road motor vehicles powered by electric drive. The dealer or leasing company must certify in the Dealer Verification Form included with the application that the new vehicle meets the eligibility requirements listed in the NoR.

Under the key eligibility criteria, the vehicle must:

 have four wheels and be manufactured for use primarily on public streets, roads, and highways; Check.
 have a powertrain that has not been modified from the original manufacturer's specifications; Check.
 be rated at not more than 8,500 pounds unloaded vehicle weight; Check.
 be rated at less than 10,000 pounds gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR); Check.
 have a maximum speed capability of at least 55 miles per hour; Check.
 be propelled to a significant extent by an electric motor; Check.
 have a battery with a capacity of not less than four kilowatt hours; Check. and
 be capable of being recharged from an external source of electricity (i.e., plug-in). Check.

Only new electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles purchased or leased from a dealer or leasing company licensed to sell or lease new vehicles in Texas may qualify. D'OH!

Vehicles purchased or leased directly from the manufacturer or from an out-of-state dealer or leasing company will not be eligible. D'OH D'OH!!

 

[reddy]

Not to be picky, but the Nissan Leaf is made in Tennessee.

Yes, I agree that Texas is being shortsighted. But it will be hard to justify to the general public that owners of $95k cars need a rebate from Texas taxpayers.

 

[JohnQ]

Not to be picky, but the Nissan Leaf is made in Tennessee.

Yes, I agree that Texas is being shortsighted. But it will be hard to justify to the general public that owners of $95k cars need a rebate from Texas taxpayers.

Then they should have put a cap on the purchase price of the vehicle.

 

[GoBlue88]

Not to be picky, but the Nissan Leaf is made in Tennessee.

Not to be picky, but I said "made by a foreign manufacturer". I didn't say "not made in America". Last time I checked, Nissan was still a Japanese company.

Yes, I agree that Texas is being shortsighted. But it will be hard to justify to the general public that owners of $95k cars need a rebate from Texas taxpayers.

That is wholly irrelevant as price has nothing to do with it nor is a price cap mentioned anywhere in the policy. The Cadillac ELR qualifies. That car costs $80K.

 

[bonnie]

Eventually there will be an upset consumer who will lead a class action suit against one of the state dealership organizations for the money they've cost them (if it can be shown that they were behind this) ... and once they lose in one state, hopefully consumers will be emboldened in other states.

Oh hey. We're consumers. Seriously, this Texas bidness is going to cost people real money. Game's getting serious.

 

[GoBlue88]

Heck, an MS60 costs less than an ELR. The ELR gets the rebate in Texas. Not so for the MS60.

- - - Updated - - -

Eventually there will be an upset consumer who will lead a class action suit against one of the state dealership organizations for the money they've cost them (if it can be shown that they were behind this) ... and once they lose in one state, hopefully consumers will be emboldened in other states.

Oh hey. We're consumers. Seriously, this Texas bidness is going to cost people real money. Game's getting serious.

After seeing the Capitol rally by Missouri Tesla owners I almost wish CA would attempt this so we could participate in the fun. :biggrin:

But we know there is probably a 0.000001% chance of any of the Texas or Missouri shenanigans being attempted here.

 

[rage_777]

Not to be picky, but the Nissan Leaf is made in Tennessee.

Yes, I agree that Texas is being shortsighted. But it will be hard to justify to the general public that owners of $95k cars need a rebate from Texas taxpayers.

Then how are they justifying the billions given to the oil industries even with their record profits that they were getting a few years ago?

 

[FlasherZ]

After seeing the Capitol rally by Missouri Tesla owners I almost wish CA would attempt this so we could participate in the fun. :biggrin:

Part of it seems fun, but part of it can be rather deflating as well.

Your Capitol team needs to be well-spoken and educated on the topics so that you can have conversations and bring truth to the BS that the dealers bring. You can't have a single person bring the typical anonymous Internet anger in person, or that one person can destroy the entire credibility of the effort. You have to be able to survive some disappointment -- for us, there was big disappointment in that none of the local TV news stations wanted to cover the controversy because of the advertising impact. It shows you just how much and where the influence exists. You have to use what's on your side to the best of your advantage.

The fun part is seeing the awesomeness in person trump all the preconceived notions. Seeing 100% of public opinion with you in comments on the articles that do get published. Seeing some legislators who started with "I'm leaning toward supporting my dealers" end up with "Tesla deserves a chance" after a test drive or ride is so fulfilling, after they hear the owners' enthusiasm, see the technology advances (The Oatmeal's "cup holders and bluetooth" panel is just awesome here), and hear about the consumer's ability to purchase. Here in Illinois and Missouri, a conversation about the real cost of the car over the years always works well -- we get the conversation away from the talking points of "toy cars for rich people" when they see that a family of six replaced a Chevy Suburban and @ 150,000 miles the cost is the same! Hearing someone ask you "tell me that again" or "go through that again" is satisfying in and of itself!

I doubt California would ever try it - the factory is too valuable to the state and the environmental angle is too strong for the dealers' arguments to get hold.

 

[GoBlue88]

^^^^^ Yeah, I know. If AZ continues to bring the shenanigans, I'll be happy to drive to Phoenix and support the AZ Tesla owners.

 

[dalalsid]

Nissan Leaf made by a foreign manufacturer: qualifies for the rebate. Tesla Model S made by a domestic manufacturer: not so much.

http://www.tceq.texas.gov/assets/public/implementation/air/terp/ld/2014_ld_list.pdf

Tesla should announce that TX is out of the running for the Gigafactory. Can't sell the cars there. Can't get EV rebates either.

 

[rolosrevenge]

It'd be nice if Tesla puts the gigafactory somewhere other than Texas, and makes mention of Texas' anti Tesla policies as the reason.

 

[Lloyd]

As well as the Truck factory!

 

[artsci]

Ironically, and perhaps deservedly as a center of climate change deniers, climate change will make Texas a major locus of drought and profound problems with water supply. Not a good place for a factory, or anything else for that matter. It's already happening. In fact, all of the West will present serious problems with water supply. I don't know what kind of water needs the gigafactory will have, but this is something that Tesla must plan for.

 

[reddy]

I'm just sitting here smiling that all the comments so far, except for mine, are from outside Texas. And many reflect the misconceptions that others have of Texas economics and geography.

In any event, we can all agree that the good ole boys network of auto dealers is hard at work to suppress Tesla. Perhaps I'm the optimist, but I give the people of Texas a little more credit as far as understanding what is going on. By attempting to squelch Tesla today, the eventual resolution will be more disruptive to dealers than if they had negotiated terms early, while Tesla was an unknown.

This doesn't appear to be hurting sales in Texas. We simply get the car with California temporary tags instead of Texas ones.

IMO building a gigafactory with a 30+ year lifespan, and choosing the location based an a short term hiccup, is bad business decisionmaking. Sure, we score points THIS year, but next year we have zero negotiating power. Plus Texas has plenty of space, very low taxes, ample workforce, cheap electricity, lots of railway connections, and is the #1 producer of wind energy. Expect extra tax incentives from local and regional government for this. Water is not an issue at any of the sites under consideration.

Hey guys, this is business. Texas is probably the place to beat if you are looking for a business case for gigafactory.

We can handle the legislature, but it will need to happen during the next session. For good or bad, that happens only every other year.

 

[jerry33]

I'm just sitting here smiling that all the comments so far, except for mine, are from outside Texas. And many reflect the misconceptions that others have of Texas economics and geography.

In any event, we can all agree that the good ole boys network of auto dealers is hard at work to suppress Tesla. Perhaps I'm the optimist, but I give the people of Texas a little more credit as far as understanding what is going on.

I agree that the people understand, but with the gerrymandering of Texas districts it's going to be almost impossible to unseat the crooks.

 

[Jack6591]

.We can handle the legislature, but it will need to happen during the next session. For good or bad, that happens only every other year.

It seems completely out of character for Texans (at least the ones I have known), for them to allow politicians to dictate what they can and cannot buy. That they would allow politicians to quash innovation, and free market capitalism is unbelievable. The people of Texas should stand up and fight. That Alamo thing, that how I see Texans.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I agree that the people understand, but with the gerrymandering of Texas districts it's going to be almost impossible to unseat the crooks.

While the Model S is impressive, at $70k it's not going to change anything. But at $37k with Supercharging, 200 miles of range, low running costs, good performance (think mid 7s 0-60 for the base), good passenger and cargo space you'd have a combination of a large potential market and it'd be enough of an aspirational vehicle that more people would sympathize.

It's at that point you could have an issue important enough that you could not only block legislation, but unseat incumbents to change the legislation.

 

[Cattledog]

I'm just sitting here smiling that all the comments so far, except for mine, are from outside Texas. And many reflect the misconceptions that others have of Texas economics and geography.

In any event, we can all agree that the good ole boys network of auto dealers is hard at work to suppress Tesla. Perhaps I'm the optimist, but I give the people of Texas a little more credit as far as understanding what is going on. By attempting to squelch Tesla today, the eventual resolution will be more disruptive to dealers than if they had negotiated terms early, while Tesla was an unknown.

This doesn't appear to be hurting sales in Texas. We simply get the car with California temporary tags instead of Texas ones.

IMO building a gigafactory with a 30+ year lifespan, and choosing the location based an a short term hiccup, is bad business decisionmaking. Sure, we score points THIS year, but next year we have zero negotiating power. Plus Texas has plenty of space, very low taxes, ample workforce, cheap electricity, lots of railway connections, and is the #1 producer of wind energy. Expect extra tax incentives from local and regional government for this. Water is not an issue at any of the sites under consideration.

Hey guys, this is business. Texas is probably the place to beat if you are looking for a business case for gigafactory.

We can handle the legislature, but it will need to happen during the next session. For good or bad, that happens only every other year.

+1.

As someone who was born and raised in California, lived in Massachusetts, and now reside in Texas, it's pretty easy to cite good and bad everywhere as suits your argument. I think the Gigafactory business case for Texas is compelling, and with SpaceX building a spaceport in Brownsville (reported yesterday they are continuing to acquire land) it is actually a simplifier in Elon's life to concentrate travel. That's not the deciding issue, but likely carries weight in his mind. San Antonio and Bexar County have $800M in incentives on the table for the factory, who knows what the state's adding. I can also imagine Elon wanting to place the Gigafactory right on top of the Eagleford shale play and flip them a big middle battery as they usher out the old while he's trotting in the new - compelling contrast.

 

[Zroiron]

There a a lot of Teslas in the great nation of Texas! Too bad they won't get the gigafactory!!

Tesla should announce that TX is out of the running for the Gigafactory. Can't sell the cars there. Can't get EV rebates either.

 

[pgwoosley]

"Vehicles purchased or leased directly from the manufacturer or from an out-of-state dealer or leasing company will not be eligible. "

There is a decent argument that this requirement violates the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution. The challenge will be to figure out how to finance the litigation.