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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Chinese build a lot of things a lot cheaper than American companies can, that doesn’t mean American companies dont still dominate their own home market and take a sizable share of international market. (Especially when your government adds a 100% tariff to chinese imports)

We dont even have to leave the Auto space to find comparisons - decent quality Chinese ICE cars are substantially cheaper than American & European models, yet plenty of American & European models still sell well around the world at far higher prices.

American companies usually dominate in the US with superior brand allegience, service & marketing.

I agree, there are hundreds of much cheaper Chinese phones but Apple still reigns supreme. Same will happen with Tesla they will have the big margins, superior and more trusted brand, design, software, services, integration etc

Even in China Tesla is a more desired product over any home grown Chinese EV model which are much cheaper.
 
All true. However, Americans also like/love "cheap stuff"....and "made in China" tends to equate to lower cost for American consumers. The tariffs are designed to protect American businesses, but it seems inevitable that this is a temporary bandaid at best. Look at the dominance American automakers had in the 60s, then the Japanese automakers came in....and later the Koreans. The road may take years or even decades to traverse, but it gets there. It will likely include building Chinese-owned factories on U.S. soil before it's all said and done (Volvo and Polestar enter the chat).

Of course all of this is beyond the fact that China is the largest auto market in the world and the local automakers are rapidly decimating foreign brands there - while simultaneously increasing exports. Meanwhile, GM, as an example has divested of a lot of its "overseas" brands (Vauxhall, Opel, Holden, etc.).
The Japanese served a need that didn't exist, which is a reliable car. US auto companies purposely put in plastic parts with a shelf life that usually ends exactly when the car was out of warranty. Americans got hosed by these practices for decades until the Japanese blew this door open.


So far the Chinese I see providing nothing new to the car market. Their EVs are suddenly more expensive if they begin using US supply chain and workers. Their cars all of a sudden cannot compete with Tesla just like all the EV companies going bankrupt here in the US. Not to mention the mountain of red tape of safety standards and quality control inspections some under the table money can be used to buy off Chinese regulators that generally doesn't happen here. BYD already stated they have no intentions coming here cause it's a mind field of money furnace, plus having to change people's perspective on Chinese made products.

The Chinese cell phones had a very difficult time breaking into the US before the ban and they were way more competitive vs any kind of EVs they will make here.
 
So you don't want to pay him the already agreed stock options for his work over the last 6 years... because you think he may not do a good job going forward? That seems like a way to guarantee he will not do a good job going forward.
Seems to me we pay the man the agreed amount for his prior work (with unprecedented accomplishments) THEN talk about whether/how we want to pay him for the next 6 years. That will be a different vote on a different Board proposal sometime in the future.
The 2018 plan was meant to cover through 2028. So 4 years left on it (or at least there were).
Then he had to hold the shares 5 additional years after execution.
 
All true. However, Americans also like/love "cheap stuff"....and "made in China" tends to equate to lower cost for American consumers. The tariffs are designed to protect American businesses, but it seems inevitable that this is a temporary bandaid at best. Look at the dominance American automakers had in the 60s, then the Japanese automakers came in....and later the Koreans. The road may take years or even decades to traverse, but it gets there. It will likely include building Chinese-owned factories on U.S. soil before it's all said and done (Volvo and Polestar enter the chat).

Of course all of this is beyond the fact that China is the largest auto market in the world and the local automakers are rapidly decimating foreign brands there - while simultaneously increasing exports. Meanwhile, GM, as an example has divested of a lot of its "overseas" brands (Vauxhall, Opel, Holden, etc.).
Remember GM gave up only in Europe. Their business is China and South America is strong and has not declined. The big question is what happens in South America as the Chinese popularize BEV's there. GM does produce lots of BEV's in China through JV and Chinese designed, of course. Then Stellantis has joined with Leapmotor...

The story is far from finished even though China is certainly dominant in BEV's, primarily not because of low prices but because they went all in on BEV's while the rest of the world, except Tesla, dithered.
 
Remember GM gave up only in Europe. Their business is China and South America is strong and has not declined. The big question is what happens in South America as the Chinese popularize BEV's there. GM does produce lots of BEV's in China through JV and Chinese designed, of course. Then Stellantis has joined with Leapmotor...

The story is far from finished even though China is certainly dominant in BEV's, primarily not because of low prices but because they went all in on BEV's while the rest of the world, except Tesla, dithered.
GM also gave up in India.
 
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The two people I've known killed on motorcycles were both sitting at stoplights and were plowed into from behind. This generally won't happen on a bicycle. Maybe my observation isn't the most common way people die on motorcycles but I suspect it's one of the most common. Never the less, I'm basically paranoid if I'm on a bicycle and sharing the road with motor vehicles.

Tesla FSD and Robotaxi will eventually lead to the road environment becoming safer for cyclists. Though it may be a decade or more after FSD becomes mainstream before the threat of inattentive human-driven automobiles is significantly reduced from the equation.

At least a half dozen friends have died on roads due to collisions with automobiles while on motorcycles and bicycles,. These all after having counseled them, specifically, on the risk exposure they seemed not to be evaluating while riding. The most recent was a couple of months ago. Each was gut-wrenching for me, as the offered perspective was that of someone who stopped counting the dirt/street motorcycles I've owned when the count got past fifty, three decades ago. And, as someone who made their full-time living for two years teaching both the basic and advanced rider courses. The basic course is required in most states for riders to pass the multi-day training before being issued a motorcycle license.

The ratio of mass between that of cars and bikes, speed differences (shortening reaction time) between autos and bicycles, visibility (both seeing and being seen), and going into the environment with a misguided presumption of having "right of way" and it somehow protecting them, were all factors that led to their demise. Some of them preferred arguing their denial, over accepting how increasing their situational awareness might benefit them.

The growing inattentiveness of automobile drivers makes for an increasingly risky environment for two-wheeled vehicles and their occupants to share the road as safely as it could otherwise be for them.

Elon has been and will continue to be focused on preserving human life, from the individual level through to the species level. This desire to produce only products with the least risk to human life is an example of his first principles thinking being applied to preserving the light of consciousness.

As for me, I now only ride an E-mountain bike to get my two-wheeled fix and still experience the occasional issue with an inattentive tree moving into my path of travel while it was texting. ;) (while four motorcycles gather dust in the garage till I clean them up and sell them)
 
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Glad to see you don't want to discuss further job cuts and the effect they may be having on employee morale.

Thanks for the post.
A data point. I was speaking w a manager in a Service Center Body Shop today. He specifically said he was not bothered by the layoffs, that they are still projecting massive growth in their business. That the attitudes there are not what “you see in the media.”

I will be onsite there later this week and judge for myself. I will also visit the showroom and regular Service Dept.
 


Hey look at that


IMG_7112.jpeg


Edited post with ‘old’ RT mock up

IMG_7113.jpeg
 
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So you don't want to pay him the already agreed stock options for his work over the last 6 years... because you think he may not do a good job going forward? That seems like a way to guarantee he will not do a good job going forward.
Seems to me we pay the man the agreed amount for his prior work (with unprecedented accomplishments) THEN talk about whether/how we want to pay him for the next 6 years. That will be a different vote on a different Board proposal sometime in the future.
Yeah you are right. I should separate these two thinks. Thanks for showing me. I just voted.
 
The two people I've known killed on motorcycles were both sitting at stoplights and were plowed into from behind. This generally won't happen on a bicycle. Maybe my observation isn't the most common way people die on motorcycles but I suspect it's one of the most common. Never the less, I'm basically paranoid if I'm on a bicycle and sharing the road with motor vehicles.
Actually.. An extremely close relative was dirt-bike motoring back home along a two lane, striped road in CO a couple years ago when the relative came across a school bus, stopped, on the other side of the road, with the STOP flags out and itty bitty kids getting off after school. Naturally, said relative stopped and was waiting patiently when a massive, speeding semi came up from behind the relative and, brakes or no brakes, punted the relative down the road.

Lots of surgeries later the relative is finally getting around better. The kids were somewhat traumatized, but the relative helped by writing back to them whilst in the hospital recovering.

Semi driver no longer has a license, not that that helps much.
 
So you don't want to pay him the already agreed stock options for his work over the last 6 years... because you think he may not do a good job going forward? That seems like a way to guarantee he will not do a good job going forward.
Seems to me we pay the man the agreed amount for his prior work (with unprecedented accomplishments) THEN talk about whether/how we want to pay him for the next 6 years. That will be a different vote on a different Board proposal sometime in the future.
You may be right about this.
 
Is it just me, or, is the very fact that these many and several investment channels are having to provide a way for TSLA shareholders to vote illustrating something worth consideration.

That something being, in the past there has not been a swell of interest from retail shareholders to vote for most other stocks through these channels. So, there was no method provided when it wasn't being asked about.

Most people just don't care enough about most stocks to even inquire in significant enough numbers to result in such a change by the brokers to accommodate voting.

Next consideration point. Of those asking to vote for TSLA, which is more likely:

  • They are doing so because they feel the Delaware judgement needs to be righted, Elon needs to be paid for doing above and beyond what was expected, and they want Tesla to continue to thrive as a result of a positive vote.

  • They are angry at Elon for something that is unrelated to the success of Tesla and have actually taken time out of their lives to figure out how to get their vote counted to teach him a lesson for whatever they believe he has done.


In my experience it has always seemed that the sort of people who let their emotions be influenced toward negativity will usually take time to type or talk their line of thought, but many won't actually take time to solve problems (like how to vote) because that doesn't bring the endorphin rush that getting all emotionally worked up in front of other people will provide them. This, if they even hold shares and can vote. (thx to @capster mentioning this, below)

From where I sit, I'd like to think the lion's share of those actually taking steps to vote where no one has voted before, boldly going where shareholders have not been, seeking out how to vote and support the transition, will predominantly be made up of those in favor of Elon's pay package.

Of course, I could be wrong. What do you think? ;)
 
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