You do realize your argument makes no sense. Honestly if you threaten to sue the company why would they let you buy another car? So you can sue about that too? Honestly if you have all this money to spend take your business elsewhere and teach yourself to be grateful about what you have and stop complaining
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Tesla Model X Cancellation
- Thread starter montauto
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- cancellation Model X
You do realize your argument makes no sense. Honestly if you threaten to sue the company why would they let you buy another car? So you can sue about that too? Honestly if you have all this money to spend take your business elsewhere and teach yourself to be grateful about what you have and stop complaining
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
Well, where should I start? Believe me, I don't like all of Tesla's business practices either, but overreacting seldomly produces satisfactory results.
And no one made you go to a lawyer straight away, you decided that you wanted one. So whining about losing money on lawyers is a bit beside the point isn't it? And going by your other comments, you seem to have enough money to spare anyway, so why bother?
Honestly, Tesla might have made a few mistakes in dealing with you as a customer, but nevertheless I can only shake my head at the way you go about this whole situation.
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
Now, I don't want to defend the OP too much, but that kind of comment is really unneccessary. In what way are his expectations unrealistic?
He ordered a car (I am only referring to the P85D seat issue part of the whole story of course) to certain specifications. He expected to get a car with said specifications. If what he wrote in the email to Jerome is correct, his car was delivered with wrong specifications (seats), yet had he not complained himself, no one of the Tesla staff would have even told him.
THAT is a part of the story that would have pissed me off big time as well.
I am a TSLA shareholder, I am hoping to some day drive a Model 3, I admire what they have achieved so far. But I am also a realist. And realistically, communication is a really big problem inside the whole Tesla organisation. Especially the apparent communication towards their store personnel. Even from the few visits (including my test drive experience) I had with our local Tesla store, I can only attest that these people might try their best, yet didn't seem as knowledgable as one would expect from personnel working at a store of a premium car brand. And that can be a killer too. If I go to a car dealer (and salespeople at a Tesla store ARE car dealers, no denying that fact), especially one that sells cars at that price level, I expect extraordinary customer service levels and highly informed staff who can give me details on all important aspects concerning the product they sell. I don't think that is an unrealistic expectation. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in your opinion.
I work for a company that provides a service, and we hold a monopoly for millions of people in the country where they literally have no alternatives.
My company has done the same thing for "abusive" customers. As others mentioned companies often spend probably 95%+ of their resources/extra money on maybe 1-2% of their customerbase. It's a smart business decision, the consumer obviously has no appreciation of the service, and they clearly would be happier with alternatives.
I think Tesla did the right thing, and I believe they should continue this practice. There are risks to being a consumer, those risks with TM are *significantly* under that of any other car company from how they run things, and people still want to abuse that. No thanks, Tesla is right not to give into ridiculous demands.
My own electric car (not Tesla) was running 7-8 months overdue, on top of the initial 3-4 month delivery time. This is for a nationally available electric car. I had a charger sitting in my garage unused for six months.
What did I do? I followed the available services to try and remedy the situation. Those failed, there was nothing that could be done. The solution was waiting. I didn't like their solution, so I asked for my deposit back, and bought a competitor's car. I didn't sue them, I didn't make unrealistic demands like loaning me a car for six months, I just took my business elsewhere and got my money back within the bounds of the contract I had signed.
Krugerrand
Meow
Oh, goodness! Stop being so reasonable and practical. It's not nearly as exciting. :wink:
I do have to note that I think the characterization of the OP in the latest replies is not accurate, so if anyone joining late wants a fuller picture, I recommend reading more. He did not sue anyone nor were all of his demands anywhere near unreasonable. He attempted to walk out of the delivery when the product was not as he had ordered, had received mistakes and faulty information from Tesla as well throughout the process. In the end, it is akin to eloder being denied further purchase of "nationally available electric car" due to walking out from his order due to disappointment - only, of course, a somewhat longer history.
I think the objective interpretation of this thread already found fault on both sides.
It is of course a matter of opinion which side was more in the wrong and thus the unreasonable party, and what are the legal and moral rights and responsibilities of companies and consumers. That is fair debate.
I think the objective interpretation of this thread already found fault on both sides.
It is of course a matter of opinion which side was more in the wrong and thus the unreasonable party, and what are the legal and moral rights and responsibilities of companies and consumers. That is fair debate.
dsm63: I have of course read the entire thread and participated actively in it as well when it was timely. I was offering my opinion on the latest installments not being representative of the whole - attempts to interject balance into a single-sided conversation shouldn't be viewed as attempts to make views of some arbitrarily equal value... There certainly is a perfectly valid disagreement over who was wronged and how much in this story, most agree Tesla also failed to an extent at least, even if probably most of us - myself included - agree the OP too approached the issue unwisely.
I thought this was important to point out, now that the thread was resurrected after a long time.
Beyond that, of course there is a perfectly valid debate over how much customer-selection power a car manufacturer should reasonable have in a case where they also aim to disrupt the market's business model by controlling the entire channel, thus shutting out new-car buyers in a way that wasn't possible before - because even if factory orders were controlled, one could still buy from the lot. eloder offered his/her opinion on this, of course.
Personally I have no interest in re-igniting that debate, it was eloder and Krugerrand who were back here before myself. I thought the situation merited a bit more balance to anyone joining the thread at this late stage through these last messages.
CarlK
Active Member
As I remember op started his complain on the Tesla Motors forum. He took delivery of his P85+ just a few weeks before the P85D announcement. He wanted Tesla to take his car back with little or no deduction from the price he paid. Quite a few people were upset and wanted that too but he was the most combatative and made many threatening words agaist Tesla. The thread he started turned very ugly and almost all people were on Tesla's side and thought he was unreasonable. I have no idea how his communication with Tesla went but what he said on that forum alone would be enough for Tesal to refuse to take him as a future customer.
BTW quite a few members took the hit and traded for P85D. Others like me just continue to love our P85/P85+. Op should have done the same. Hope the lesson is learned.
BTW quite a few members took the hit and traded for P85D. Others like me just continue to love our P85/P85+. Op should have done the same. Hope the lesson is learned.
The OP did trade to P85D and faced issues with that delivery, and only after that things escalated, so basically what you say is just wrong. He also claimed to have been told by the Tesla sales person incorrect info on the P85+ that lead him to those original demands. So it is quite a bit more complicated story - at least as it is told on TMC.
Krugerrand
Meow
AnxietyRanger said:
I don't. All I clarified was OPs story. If need be, I'm all for discussing that now that others like yourself re-started the thread.
Perhaps you understand better my point of view when considering your own opinion on the responsibilities of business vs. those of consumers. It applies to Tesla's mistakes as well.
As I said, I have no interest in re-igniting the second part - the debate over the responsibility of business regarding customer selection and control of channel. That is a big debate, not really within the scope of this forum.
Krugerrand
Meow
The OP's story didn't need to be clarified. It's already forever on the Internet.
Anything else you want to parse out?
There's this old saying. Goes something like, actions speak louder than words. There's also another one: Thou doth protest too much.
Prefer the last three posts (and any future ones) be moved to PM as OT.. Let's all get along, please..
Obviously it did, considering the last few replies misquote the story heavily. Yet you had no need to protest those.
No idea what that means. I explained to you what debate I had no interest in re-igniting. I didn't respond to that part of eloder's message. If I wanted to re-ignite it, I would have. So unless you are just trying to make fun of my words, I don't see anything roll-eyes worthy in that.
Ditto.
Krugerrand
Meow
Obviously it did, considering the last few replies misquote the story heavily. Yet you had no need to protest those.
ONE person posted and commented specifically to TWO sentences, which were not 'misquoted'. Those sentences were quoted word for word. That poster is entitled to comment and have an whatever opinion they want to have. I know that's hard for you to accept particularly when you don't agree, but it is allowed here. It's also allowed for people to post in old threads. My post merely supported their reasonable and sensible approach to life. So stop making it sound like a bunch of people suddenly rewrote the OP's story.
We misunderstand each other. Again, to clarify, my view was the last few posts in the thread weren't summing up OPs points fully accurately - and I noted so. Like everything, it is of course merely my opinion. I think it seems to be harder for you to accept that I too am entitled to have an opinion and to comment. I am not trying to limit anyone's right to voice opinions - I am taking part as are others. I am also not against re-igniting any threads, the only reason I brought it up was because dsm363's response to myself.
To try to steer back on topic, and especially for anyone joining late, the OPs concern with Tesla - as posted on TMC, in my view - can be summed up with both an overly demanding customer and sub-par sales experience with both his P85+ and P85D, a totality with ended up totaling the OPs and Teslas relationship. A sad story, really.
In both cases OP claims to have been promised things that didn't materialize and felt misled and pushed hard by sales on choices he didn't prefer (allegedly was waiting for AWD Tesla but got pushed by sales into P85+ on the account AWD wasn't coming anytime soon - and then it did upon his delivery - and later after taking a hit on that, receiving P85D with wrong seats and not being told about it or easily allowed backing out from the sale when he wanted to). From Tesla's complaint management perspective, who may have well been unprivy to the sales-person level experience, he was a difficult customer that they felt was unreasonable and seeming costly (allegedly making unreasonable suggestions as to how to correct the situation and feeling somewhat litigatious), so they cut ties and the OP hit TMC.
It is very hard to say what the actual on-the-floor fact may be, but the overall story - as told on TMC - is far more complex than just one difficult customer.
I think Krugerrand's own quote is actually very pertinent here: "It is not the responsibility of the customer to babysit the professionals, or to go in there treating them like they are children laying down ground rules that are clearly understood by the virtue of it being a business." If Tesla's sales people made mistakes, surely Tesla is responsible and probably, generally speaking, their status as the company and the professionals demands a bit more of them than of the consumer. That said, we can also debate what the correct response is from the consumer side as well. Not any response from consumer is always warranted either.
I think both parties probably are at fault to a degree - and I agree the OP probably didn't approach the issue very wisely, thus making thing worse.
In any case, an unfortunate story.
Also, some of the thread debates whether or not companies should be within their rights to blacklist customers, when they control the entire sales channel - and whether or not that could be an argument for the dealership model and lot purchases.
In both cases OP claims to have been promised things that didn't materialize and felt misled and pushed hard by sales on choices he didn't prefer (allegedly was waiting for AWD Tesla but got pushed by sales into P85+ on the account AWD wasn't coming anytime soon - and then it did upon his delivery - and later after taking a hit on that, receiving P85D with wrong seats and not being told about it or easily allowed backing out from the sale when he wanted to). From Tesla's complaint management perspective, who may have well been unprivy to the sales-person level experience, he was a difficult customer that they felt was unreasonable and seeming costly (allegedly making unreasonable suggestions as to how to correct the situation and feeling somewhat litigatious), so they cut ties and the OP hit TMC.
It is very hard to say what the actual on-the-floor fact may be, but the overall story - as told on TMC - is far more complex than just one difficult customer.
I think Krugerrand's own quote is actually very pertinent here: "It is not the responsibility of the customer to babysit the professionals, or to go in there treating them like they are children laying down ground rules that are clearly understood by the virtue of it being a business." If Tesla's sales people made mistakes, surely Tesla is responsible and probably, generally speaking, their status as the company and the professionals demands a bit more of them than of the consumer. That said, we can also debate what the correct response is from the consumer side as well. Not any response from consumer is always warranted either.
I think both parties probably are at fault to a degree - and I agree the OP probably didn't approach the issue very wisely, thus making thing worse.
In any case, an unfortunate story.
Also, some of the thread debates whether or not companies should be within their rights to blacklist customers, when they control the entire sales channel - and whether or not that could be an argument for the dealership model and lot purchases.
vandacca: One of the reasons why I think this thread is not fully representative is because the OPs letter to Tesla - the one that actually explained the entire episode from start to finish - was deleted by moderators (it was a PDF attachment). That is why readers now won't be able to quite grasp the entirety of it, hence my summary above.
As for re-igniting debates, my comment there was specific to not wanting to re-ignite the particular conversation of banning customers and its implications in a single-channel system. Thus I also ignored that aspect in my responses above. On the other hand, as you well know, I am more than available for any conversation on Tesla's customer relations, re-ignited or not. Then again, I also think at times it really is nice to just agree to disagree with some good rep spread around in the process. That too is a good ending.
As for re-igniting debates, my comment there was specific to not wanting to re-ignite the particular conversation of banning customers and its implications in a single-channel system. Thus I also ignored that aspect in my responses above. On the other hand, as you well know, I am more than available for any conversation on Tesla's customer relations, re-ignited or not.
Then again, I also think at times it really is nice to just agree to disagree with some good rep spread around in the process. That too is a good ending.
