Tesla infotainment system upgradeable from MCU1 to MCU2

[supratachophobia]

When I brought my Tesla I was never told the MCU performance would decrease over time! This situation kind of makes me think of how old apple iPhones have slowed down. I now Tesla are not doing this intentionally (or at least I think not!) but they need to sought out MCU1 so as a minimum it is usable!!!

iPhones are slowing down because the batteries supposedly can't run the processor fast enough anymore.

 

[supratachophobia]

Further, you could argue that new features have been added since it first rolled out. Problem is, they haven't. What processes are running behind the scenes that are so processor dependent that they are slowing it down? Nothing. Dashcam does not run on it. The MCU1 literally has the exact same feature-set as when I purchased the vehicle new in 2017 and on v8 it was running smooth and fast.

What new features (always on) does the MCU1 do that it didn't do 4 years ago? I'm not talking games, I'm talking always on. Of those new "always on" features, how processor intensive is it?

@verygreen has already found processor pigs running in MCU1 like the traffic polling x times/second slowing it down, and there are many more. This stuff isn't done by accident.

Background nav probably isn't helping.....

 

[VValleyEV]

Background nav probably isn't helping.....

I am not sure what is meant by “background nav”.

I understand that cars in the fleet are often comparing where you are steering to where the AP lane keep would go if it were enabled, so they can collect data to improve the AP performance. I think this is done on some subset of cars based on data they are looking for but am not sure. Most of the load should be on the AP computer not the MCU, but if it does impact MCU1 performance they could disable it for MCU1 vehicles.

 

[S100D]

Message to Mods : I recommend that a new requirement be added to posters. in order for someone to post in this thread, They MUST list the year and model of the Tesla they own. There are far too many posts where the reader can not determine the value of a post without knowing the Model, year as well as the type MCU and version of AP they have and the version of software they have.

Impala, instead of having to enter your model, year, etc. in each forum posting, everyone should add a signature that shows when each person posts a message. You do not have one so I recommend that you add one now.

 

[ucmndd]

It would make one heck of a commercial. Should your car really be THIS dependent on a computer? Tired of waiting for your car, for an update, for a web browser to open? We think your car should age like a car, not a computer...

I’ve been waiting 5 years for a software update on my Toyota. I keep asking them when it’s coming and they keep threatening to block my number if I keep calling.

What’s worse, I can’t even FIND the knob on the dashboard that controls the browser. I think they forgot to add it. But who could know for sure if they did, the ergonomics are so bad.

 

[scottf200]

... @verygreen has already found processor pigs running in MCU1 like the traffic polling x times/second slowing it down, and there are many more. This stuff isn't done by accident.

You are very confused. verygreen didn't find that. There is another thread here showing who did and the developer didn't have the parameters for the call syntax correct. That has been fixed. Certainly, it wasn't deliberate. That's absurd.

 

[dannycamps]

Now we know who bought up all the tin foil hats. Sheesh.

Tesla is not intentionally slowing down MCU1. The only way that would make sense if they were, at the same time, actually offering an official upgrade/retrofit path to MCU2, other than buying a new car.

No of course they aren't BUT the iPhone analogy brought up earlier can be a valid one. There are a few reasons why hardware slows as it ages. One reason is because parts actually do wear over time (even solid-state items like RAM, eMMC, and CPU). Another reason is software updates add new features which do not perform well on the older hardware. By forcing older hardware to run software not designed for it can be seen as kind of iffy.

Personally, I like the fact that MCU1 cars are still supported and the older cars get the benefit of newer features like text messaging, spotify, etc... I just thing Tesla should try to eek out some more performance from the older hardware through software optimizations.

 

[drklain]

I am not sure what is meant by “background nav”.

I understand that cars in the fleet are often comparing where you are steering to where the AP lane keep would go if it were enabled, so they can collect data to improve the AP performance. I think this is done on some subset of cars based on data they are looking for but am not sure. Most of the load should be on the AP computer not the MCU, but if it does impact MCU1 performance they could disable it for MCU1 vehicles.

Background nav is a reference to version 10 software (or was it 9) when the map no longer appeared in a box (which could be turned off with other stuff displayed). Instead, now the map is always present in the background and other things (radio, camera, web browser, etc.) appear OVER the map by the map is still being rendered and that (especially with traffic turned on) is idenifitied as the biggest factor slowing down the MCU.

 

[badboy1980]

Let's see what Elon says about the upgrade in his next tweet....

 

[VValleyEV]

Background nav is a reference to version 10 software (or was it 9) when the map no longer appeared in a box (which could be turned off with other stuff displayed). Instead, now the map is always present in the background and other things (radio, camera, web browser, etc.) appear OVER the map by the map is still being rendered and that (especially with traffic turned on) is idenifitied as the biggest factor slowing down the MCU.

Thanks, that makes sense and I was unaware. If real might be low hanging fruit to disable or optimize it.

 

[DigAdrenaline]

No of course they aren't BUT the iPhone analogy brought up earlier can be a valid one. There are a few reasons why hardware slows as it ages. One reason is because parts actually do wear over time (even solid-state items like RAM, eMMC, and CPU). Another reason is software updates add new features which do not perform well on the older hardware. By forcing older hardware to run software not designed for it can be seen as kind of iffy.

Personally, I like the fact that MCU1 cars are still supported and the older cars get the benefit of newer features like text messaging, spotify, etc... I just thing Tesla should try to eek out some more performance from the older hardware through software optimizations.

Tesla IS building a car designed to have hardware that lasts for a million kms. They should consider the computers (MCU and AP) to be regular replacement items that wear out, like tires or brakes, and make them easily replaceable. It’s not reasonable to expect someone to continue using a computer 10+ years old when they are entrusting their life (and others) to it as it drives down the road.

Going back to the Tesla plan, immediate obsolescence leading to perfectly useable cars with outdated computers does not fit well with a goal of sustainable transportation.

 

[ucmndd]

It’s not reasonable to expect someone to continue using a computer 10+ years old when they are entrusting their life (and others) to it as it drives down the road.

Someone should explain this supposed principle to basically every car made since the mid 1980s.

 

[DigAdrenaline]

Someone should explain this supposed principle to basically every car made since the mid 1980s.

Maybe I'm missing what you mean here, but My Tesla is the first car I've owned that was sold claiming that it would be self driving. It's also the first car that I regularly see people successfully being inattentive in. Usually those stories are discussions about crashes and deaths, not people being pulled over as drunk drivers or while sleeping.

Can you point me at a story like this, Tesla Model 3 takes a 45-minute joyride on Autopilot with no intervention where someone drives a privately owned vehicle other than a Tesla for 45 minutes without "driving"? My first thought was actually to laugh. 45 minutes is a pretty crappy example. I've gone several hours in my MS, and it's older than his 3. Which is my point. At 3 years old now, lets assume another 3-5 years before it's FSD (though I hope less), it'll be a 6-8 year old car that may not have been in for any real maintenance yet. Are you comfortable with me sending it into your neighborhood when the eMMC is 8 years old, and there's no driver in it? Carrying your kid in it as a robotaxi? Using it's LTE internet connection when the rest of the world is 5G?

Or should we just swap the computer whenever a new one comes out that I believe justifies the cost to upgrade?

 

[viper2ko]

Let's see what Elon says about the upgrade in his next tweet....

"You can"

 

[Beltsbear]

No of course they aren't BUT the iPhone analogy brought up earlier can be a valid one. There are a few reasons why hardware slows as it ages. One reason is because parts actually do wear over time (even solid-state items like RAM, eMMC, and CPU). Another reason is software updates add new features which do not perform well on the older hardware. By forcing older hardware to run software not designed for it can be seen as kind of iffy.

Sorry but ram and cpu don’t wear in the sense of slowing or aging. They degrade and break, but before they break, they are 100% of the original speed. iPhones batteries degraded over time and could not output peak power without voltage drop. Voltage drop would cause a crash , so lowering speed dropped peak demands and stopped the crashes.

 

[dannycamps]

Tesla IS building a car designed to have hardware that lasts for a million kms. They should consider the computers (MCU and AP) to be regular replacement items that wear out, like tires or brakes, and make them easily replaceable. It’s not reasonable to expect someone to continue using a computer 10+ years old when they are entrusting their life (and others) to it as it drives down the road.

Going back to the Tesla plan, immediate obsolescence leading to perfectly useable cars with outdated computers does not fit well with a goal of sustainable transportation.

They should and I made this exact argument myself earlier in this thread.

Musk confirms/Tesla Refutes upgradeability from MCU1 to MCU2

 

[dannycamps]

Sorry but ram and cpu don’t wear in the sense of slowing or aging. They degrade and break, but before they break, they are 100% of the original speed. iPhones batteries degraded over time and could not output peak power without voltage drop. Voltage drop would cause a crash , so lowering speed dropped peak demands and stopped the crashes.

We are way off topic here but RAM and CPUs absolutely do wear out and degrade over time due to a number of factors including usage, heat, overclocking, and voltage resistance to name a few.

 

[DigAdrenaline]

They should and I made this exact argument myself earlier in this thread.

Musk confirms/Tesla Refutes upgradeability from MCU1 to MCU2

You're right. I agree with you completely. I was not attempting to hijack credit for what you said, but you did say it first.

 

[supratachophobia]

I am not sure what is meant by “background nav”.

I understand that cars in the fleet are often comparing where you are steering to where the AP lane keep would go if it were enabled, so they can collect data to improve the AP performance. I think this is done on some subset of cars based on data they are looking for but am not sure. Most of the load should be on the AP computer not the MCU, but if it does impact MCU1 performance they could disable it for MCU1 vehicles.

The NAV map running as a constantly updating background image behind the foreground apps.

 

[supratachophobia]

Someone should explain this supposed principle to basically every car made since the mid 1980s.

The computer or "ECU" in my Supra was going on 25yrs of perfect operation when I sold it....