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Tesla CHAdeMo Update
- Thread starter mrjohnlnguyen
- Start date
Nice! Four QC in a row is far from usual!!
Only one thing... Green button to stop?? Those japanese engineers... It should be red, shouldn't it? If red is reserved for the emergency button, then it should be yellow, blue, brown... Whatever, but not green! Maybe the designer was daltonic :biggrin: (Just joking
)Clarification
I mis-spoke. I was told that "there are no plans to supply CHAdeMO adapters in the US". I know about the article stating that the cars sold in Japan will be CHAdeMO compliant. Unfortunately, that will not help us if they have a different build-out on their Japanese vehicles. Again... it is incumbent on us to make our needs known if we want Tesla to create a CHAdeMO adapter that will work with the cars in the US rather than focusing exclusively on their supercharging system which even when created will not be as well dispersed or convenient as the infrastructure already present with CHAdeMO.
I mis-spoke. I was told that "there are no plans to supply CHAdeMO adapters in the US". I know about the article stating that the cars sold in Japan will be CHAdeMO compliant. Unfortunately, that will not help us if they have a different build-out on their Japanese vehicles. Again... it is incumbent on us to make our needs known if we want Tesla to create a CHAdeMO adapter that will work with the cars in the US rather than focusing exclusively on their supercharging system which even when created will not be as well dispersed or convenient as the infrastructure already present with CHAdeMO.
I see that you live in Texas though I am not sure where you are in the state. There are a bunch of CHAdeMO adapters in the Dallas and Houston areas, so if you ever go to either of those areas, you may have a dog in the fight.
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
It's true that people that don't have CHAdeMO chargers near them - and that's a lot of people - don't get a direct benefit from Tesla offering an adapter.
However, if CHAdeMO stations get installed in your area in the future, you will likely want to have an adapter available. Even if that never happens, if you want Tesla owners in areas that do have CHAdeMO chargers to have a good ownership experience, get the most out of their cars, tell their friends about it, and help sell new drivers that are skeptical of the technology - well, the benefits aren't direct, but I think any Tesla owner, stock holder, or for that matter anybody that wants to see EVs take off has an indirect stake in whether or not Tesla drivers, even non-local ones, can use existing infrastructure.
Getting a CHAdeMO charging network up here was a very long and hard-fought battle. It is serving its purpose - Leaf drivers are getting around a lot more, and more importantly gas drivers are hearing about it and get excited about the possibilities. You can't understand how important DC charging is to potential owners until you see their faces when you explain that the Model S can't use that infrastructure - they thought they could make an EV work, and I just destroyed their dreams. Or when you see the blank looks I get when I explain that I am still driving to California using L2 charging. My friends all love my Teslas, but almost none of them are buying because - where can you charge on a trip? L2 is not sufficient. Tesla may not need more orders yet; but they will some day and the inability to use existing infrastructure is definitely holding them (and the whole industry) back.
This will be true even once the Superchargers are in - CHAdeMO stations are in all sorts of places that Superchargers will never cover. Even though DC chargers are used very infrequently and most buyers have another car in the family, most people still don't want to commit to buying an expensive new car until they know they have options for getting around in it. The importance of being able to use these things goes way beyond how often they actually are used.
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Al Sherman
It's about THIS car.
Absolutely. In many cases (mine for sure) it's not about the chargers within a 265 mile round trip from my garage. It's about the one down the road that may make or break my decision to take the Model S. I would like to have a CHAdeMO adapter. I will buy one as soon as Tesla makes it available.
Absolutely. I could not agree more with every statement you made. Is there something that we can do to pressure Tesla to create a CHAdeMO adapter to fit the cars it has already produced? I wonder if some after market manufacturer (the CHAdeMO station manufacturers?) might be able to get the rights from Tesla and make them available.
deonb
Active Member
I would imagine that a U.S. CHAdeMO adapter isn't in Tesla's best interest. There are only 160 CHAdeMO chargers (not locations - units) in the U.S. right now, most of them in locations that aren't really interesting (like highway rest stops).
If Tesla embraces CHAdeMO it would establish a feedback loop in the market: Tesla support would dramatically accelerate the rollout of CHAdeMO. And if CHAdeMO becomes commonplace, nobody would buy a car without CHAdeMO support (like in Japan).
The last thing Tesla wants is for a CHAdeMO to become a ubiquitous de-facto standard, since they mostly benefit PHEV's and low-range EV's, but the experience sucks for Tesla owners.
A better strategy would be to rapidly ramp up SC rollout, especially among regions where CHAdeMO is common. You can cover over 50% of CHAdeMO's in the U.S. using just 10 SC locations (the West Coast Green Highway). This would allow Tesla to retain its edge as the only practical long-range EV. It would also put Tesla in a better bargaining position to control the standard, rather than having to adopt to a worse standard that cripple the experience.
A few more sales now would be nice, but long-term control over the standard is gold.
(Speaking as a shareholder that's also personally stranded on the West Coast Green Highway.)
If Tesla embraces CHAdeMO it would establish a feedback loop in the market: Tesla support would dramatically accelerate the rollout of CHAdeMO. And if CHAdeMO becomes commonplace, nobody would buy a car without CHAdeMO support (like in Japan).
The last thing Tesla wants is for a CHAdeMO to become a ubiquitous de-facto standard, since they mostly benefit PHEV's and low-range EV's, but the experience sucks for Tesla owners.
A better strategy would be to rapidly ramp up SC rollout, especially among regions where CHAdeMO is common. You can cover over 50% of CHAdeMO's in the U.S. using just 10 SC locations (the West Coast Green Highway). This would allow Tesla to retain its edge as the only practical long-range EV. It would also put Tesla in a better bargaining position to control the standard, rather than having to adopt to a worse standard that cripple the experience.
A few more sales now would be nice, but long-term control over the standard is gold.
(Speaking as a shareholder that's also personally stranded on the West Coast Green Highway.)
Al Sherman
It's about THIS car.
Correct as usual Dave. Thanks. When the time comes I WILL wait until they are readily available.
There are 20 CHAdeMO stations within 100 miles of Dallas and almost as many in the Houston area. That's just the eVgo network.
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
Hi Deon,
It is true that there aren't thousands of CHAdeMO chargers yet, but it's important to note that the existing CHAdeMO chargers are strategically placed near large metro areas that have high EV adoption rates, so they affect a lot of potential buyers. It is still important for the people that are near them to be able to use them, especially given that there may already be more locations available than Tesla will offer in the next several years. Note that Nissan has finally gotten the message and is starting to put in quite a few on their own dime, rather than waiting for the government to put them in.
Having seen (and created) maps of where CHAdeMO chargers are, I wouldn't say that most of them are in uninteresting locations. However, even if I was to grant that they are, the ability to use 50kW charging in an uninteresting place versus 6 - 14kW chargers still affects both buying decisions for potential owners and trips taken (and vehicle satisfaction) for current owners. If Tesla offers an adapter in the US, people that are unimpressed with CHAdeMO locations are still free to use the L2 stations if they really prefer that.
I agree that using a CHAdeMO charger is not as good as using a Supercharger, and that Tesla owners will prefer the Supercharger when they can use it. But offering an adapter does not push a bad experience on anybody, and it's not an either/or situation. CHAdeMO stations are already in many places that Superchargers will never be. Tesla owners that don't want to travel to those places don't have to, but it is a huge win when potential and current owners know they can travel more places. Tesla is already building a CHAdeMO adapter; so developing it is not going to take anything away from Superchargers. They are already in the business of selling charging adapters; so while they have to create a new SKU and do some extra work to sell it in the US, it is several orders of magnitude less money and time than what would be required to put in Superchargers everywhere that CHAdeMO stations are.
Tesla does not have control of a standard, and hasn't shown great interest in doing so - they seem more like Apple, just offering something proprietary that works well for them. Right now, nobody else is interested in Superchargers because their cars can't use it, and they don't want to help Tesla establish and have control of a standard - in fact, many of them are pleased that there isn't a standard. I agree that CHAdeMO-equipped cars selling well and more CHAdeMO stations being built could be an issue if this was an established market and Tesla was trying to steal market share. But in a fragile developing market where Tesla can't begin to build enough cars to meet their goals, most consumers think negatively of the cars and most other automakers want to stop making the cars altogether, the best thing to ensure the future of all plug-in cars is that the manufacturers making them sell as many as they can make, and that they can all use all of the existing infrastructure. Many manufacturers that are only building compliance cars are not allowing their customers to use existing infrastructure; the ones that do allow it will sell more cars.
Superchargers will always be a perk for Tesla owners even if they have the option of using other chargers. This will push consumers to buy Teslas if they can, and for other manufacturers to think about switching from CHAdeMO to Superchargers when they build cars with battery packs big enough to handle it (though they will probably still fight Superchargers to hurt Tesla, just like they fight CHAdeMO now to hurt Nissan).
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ChadS is right. We need access to all these CHAdeMO chargers in metro areas.
Even when Tesla installs a SuperCharger between here and Dallas, I'll need the CHAdeMO's in Dallas as well. The SC will only help me get there from Houston. Once I get there on a low battery I will need a CHAdeMO adapter to get some miles to drive in Dallas.
Even when Tesla installs a SuperCharger between here and Dallas, I'll need the CHAdeMO's in Dallas as well. The SC will only help me get there from Houston. Once I get there on a low battery I will need a CHAdeMO adapter to get some miles to drive in Dallas.
highfalutintodd
Member
On Monday, I made a very rare road trip from Nashville to Chattanooga and back. 150 miles each way, and I was there for a grand total of about three hours.
I don't take delivery of my Model S for a few more weeks so I was in my Honda, but I found myself both wishing desperately that I was making the drive in my new car.... And also wondering how in the hell I could have done it. 300 miles round trip is beyond the range of my 85, and there were no chargers at my meeting location.
HOWEVER, I did pass THREE Cracker Barrels on I24 along the way that each had Blink CHAdeMO stations. I even stopped to look at one while taking a pit stop. Being able to use one of these would have easily enabled me to make the trip in my Tesla. Especially since I can't imagine that Tesla is planning on giving the Tennessee area any supercharger love anytime soon.
I don't take delivery of my Model S for a few more weeks so I was in my Honda, but I found myself both wishing desperately that I was making the drive in my new car.... And also wondering how in the hell I could have done it. 300 miles round trip is beyond the range of my 85, and there were no chargers at my meeting location.
HOWEVER, I did pass THREE Cracker Barrels on I24 along the way that each had Blink CHAdeMO stations. I even stopped to look at one while taking a pit stop. Being able to use one of these would have easily enabled me to make the trip in my Tesla. Especially since I can't imagine that Tesla is planning on giving the Tennessee area any supercharger love anytime soon.
Attachments
I can't say if the total number is right or not. But I can say there are 24 units installed in the metro PHX area. And they aren't at highway rest stops. Some are at usable locations like malls.
SuperCoug
Model S Res #7734
Exceptionally well stated Chad. The fact that there are already well over 100 CHAdeMO chargers installed (largely in OR and WA) is already reason enough to release the adapter to the US market. It is important to note that these CHAdeMO chargers are not being paid for by Tesla so releasing an adapter allows your customers to benefit from chargers being funded typically by local, State, and Federal programs. Whereas I think that the Tesla Supercharger network is being entirely funded by Tesla which makes it much more difficult to install hundreds of them overnight.
I really like that Tesla seems to have an "all of the above" strategy when it comes to charging. I really like that there are lots of adapters available and that allow me to tap into whatever voltage/amperage that I'm likely to encounter. Selling a CHAdeMO adapter would be very much in this same spirit.
Actually, I call it an "all of the above" strategy to address every conceivable barrier people perceive regarding EVs. Range anxiety, sportiness, long distance travel, luxury, etc.
So, why they wouldn't want to TAKE ADVANTAGE of an existing, and growing infrastructure that essentially costs them nothing and only OPENS up the capabilities for their customers (and potential customers) would be completely beyond me.
Chademo charger, along with a Chargepoint j1772, newly installed at the Ft Collins, CO museum 150 miles away from here. Ideal for my needs. :biggrin:
I___want___adapter___now, for Tesla R & S ! !
Is the Chademo free, as someone implied? Only the Chargepoint next to it has the credit card thingy. Does the Chargepoint control the Chademo? I've never seen either of these before.
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I___want___adapter___now, for Tesla R & S ! !
Is the Chademo free, as someone implied? Only the Chargepoint next to it has the credit card thingy. Does the Chargepoint control the Chademo? I've never seen either of these before.
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