Tesla belatedly tries to make their connector a North American standard

[terranx]

Woah that’s actually huge. Could be the start of a transition away from j1772 / ccs1

 

[kilpatds]

I have no response other than meme images. ... I am very surprised, and I this press release single-handedly changes my baseline assumptions for how charging infra will go over the next 5-10 years.

 

[TunaBug]

I'm surprised enough that I scrolled to the top of the article to see if it said "April 1". Agree that this is a BFD. Having said that, I wont truly believe it until I see the Fords being sold with the TeslaNACS connector.

 

[israndy]

I wonder if they'll have to use the CCS charging protocol or if these Fords with NACS will use the same plug&pay that Teslas use. Gonna be interesting to see how this Tesla Adapter is gonna work on current Fords

 

[stopcrazypp]

I wonder if they'll have to use the CCS charging protocol or if these Fords with NACS will use the same plug&pay that Teslas use. Gonna be interesting to see how this Tesla Adapter is gonna work on current Fords

From the press release:
"Mustang Mach-E, F-150 Lightning and E-Transit customers will be able to access the Superchargers via an adapter and software integration along with activation and payment via FordPass or Ford Pro Intelligence"

I take that to mean Ford is fully integrating into the Tesla system, first setting up the cars without NACS to be able to pay like Teslas do, then it follows obviously the NACS cars will do the same. They don't appear to be using CCS, otherwise they could have done it with the Tesla app.

 

[cdub]

Awesome. You're next Rivian.

 

[smogne41]

From the press release:
"Mustang Mach-E, F-150 Lightning and E-Transit customers will be able to access the Superchargers via an adapter and software integration along with activation and payment via FordPass or Ford Pro Intelligence"

I take that to mean Ford is fully integrating into the Tesla system, first setting up the cars without NACS to be able to pay like Teslas do, then it follows obviously the NACS cars will do the same. They don't appear to be using CCS, otherwise they could have done it with the Tesla app.

The NACS standard specifies J1772 and CCS protocols for communication. It is possible that Ford worked out a different deal to use the Tesla CANbus protocal for DCFC, but there is no evidence one way or another on that. Either way a huge win!

 

[wws]

I wonder if they'll have to use the CCS charging protocol or if these Fords with NACS will use the same plug&pay that Teslas use. Gonna be interesting to see how this Tesla Adapter is gonna work on current Fords

I'm guessing the adapter will look something like the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter. Physically, a little longer cable length would help. Electrically it will have to speak CAN to the older Superchargers. For newer Superchargers that can also speak PLC, some of the circuitry could be bypassed. There would also need to be some translation of higher level protocols.

 

[Nosken]

According to a few sources, new Fords will use NACS, and likely a CCS adapter for CCS. Ford to adopt NACS and gain access to Tesla Supercharger network in Canada and the US

 

[Rocky_H]

You're next Rivian.

That's who really disappointed me. They had the opportunity to jump on this from the beginning. They didn't have any previous baggage tying them to CCS, and could have started off with the fantastic Supercharger network.

 

[MP3Mike]

That's who really disappointed me. They had the opportunity to jump on this from the beginning. They didn't have any previous baggage tying them to CCS, and could have started off with the fantastic Supercharger network.

But they have created bad blood with Tesla. Stealing IP, enough so that Tesla is suing them. (At least I don't think the case is done yet.)

So it may be that they wanted to and Tesla/Elon said NOPE, no Superchargers for you!

 

[Genie]

That's who really disappointed me. They had the opportunity to jump on this from the beginning. They didn't have any previous baggage tying them to CCS, and could have started off with the fantastic Supercharger network.

That’s true, but didn’t Rivian predate the renaming of TPC to NACS, and EM announcing SC would be open to other vehicles? You can see why other mfgrs weren’t eager to incorporate something named ”Tesla Proprietary” into their products.
The timing is the sad part, this could have happened a couple years agao.

 

[israndy]

It's still not too late, especially when you consider how many vehicles they INTEND to produce, the sooner they change the more vehicles that won't be orphaned

 

[TunaBug]

It's still not too late, especially when you consider how many vehicles they INTEND to produce, the sooner they change the more vehicles that won't be orphaned

I agree sooner is better than later, but I think orphaned is too strong a word. The existing cars will still be able to charge at the same charging stations they use today. And think of how happy we were to drop $200 for an adapter to allow us to use CCS charging; won't Ford, Rivian, etc owners be even happier to spend $200 to get access to Superchargers?

 

[mongo]

I'm guessing the adapter will look something like the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter. Physically, a little longer cable length would help. Electrically it will have to speak CAN to the older Superchargers. For newer Superchargers that can also speak PLC, some of the circuitry could be bypassed. There would also need to be some translation of higher level protocols.

Ford press release says adapter is only for V3 Superchargers.

 

[TunaBug]

Ford press release says adapter is only for V3 Superchargers.

That makes sense: V3 supports CCS, the older Superchargers do not.

One thing this topic has made me wonder: with V3 supporting CCS, and many of us driving Tesla cars supporting CCS, I wonder if we’ve been (unbeknownst to us) using CCS protocol instead of CANbus at V3 chargers to help Tesla quietly beta & debug their CCS support.

 

[mongo]

That makes sense: V3 supports CCS, the older Superchargers do not.

One thing this topic has made me wonder: with V3 supporting CCS, and many of us driving Tesla cars supporting CCS, I wonder if we’ve been (unbeknownst to us) using CCS protocol instead of CANbus at V3 chargers to help Tesla quietly beta & debug their CCS support.

I sort of doubt it. Tesla testing Tesla's implementation of vehicle side CCS against their charger side implementation of CCS doesn't seem like super useful validation... unless the software was made by separate teams from the base specification. Even then, they could test inhouse on the actual modules.

That said, they are getting compatibility data from Tesla CCS on 3rd party cars and chargers.

 

[terranx]

I sort of doubt it. Tesla testing Tesla's implementation of vehicle side CCS against their charger side implementation of CCS doesn't seem like super useful validation... unless the software was made by separate teams from the base specification. Even then, they could test inhouse on the actual modules.

That said, they are getting compatibility data from Tesla CCS on 3rd party cars and chargers.

Not to mention across the pond they’ve been running ccs for years now

 

[Earl]

. . . orphaned is too strong a word. The existing cars will still be able to charge at the same charging stations they use today.

Clearly, you don't still have an LPI to SPI* or an AVCON* to 14-50 adaptor lying around like I do. Nor are you stuck charging your Roadster at only 30 amps when, before, you could charge at 70 amps at a few public places.
No, older systems haven't and won't be supported over time, even a couple of years. They will eventually be removed or replaced with earlier standards. In effect: orphaned.
* These are older standards: SPI = Small Paddle Inductive, LPI = Large Paddle Inductive, AVCON is original, circa 1999 conductive standard that pre-dated today's J-1772. There are essentially none of these left in the world while there were hundreds of them in the early 2000's, mostly in California.

 

[wws]

Clearly, you don't still have an LPI to SPI* or an AVCON* to 14-50 adaptor lying around like I do. Nor are you stuck charging your Roadster at only 30 amps when, before, you could charge at 70 amps at a few public places.
No, older systems haven't and won't be supported over time, even a couple of years. They will eventually be removed or replaced with earlier standards. In effect: orphaned.
* These are older standards: SPI = Small Paddle Inductive, LPI = Large Paddle Inductive, AVCON is original, circa 1999 conductive standard that pre-dated today's J-1772. There are essentially none of these left in the world while there were hundreds of them in the early 2000's, mostly in California.

A hotel we stayed at in Oxnard still has an AVCON charging station, next to their J1772 station. Lots of mentions of it on PlugShare. Fortunately there is a Supercharger site just across the freeway.