Taycan Takedown

[WilliamG]

Looks pretty much like the recent mules we've been seeing. I think it looks like a sleeker version of the Panamera. Definitely not anywhere close to the Mission E concept but still a very nice looking car IMO. We didn't learn anything we didn't know before during the presentation but one interesting point I noticed was the mention of software updates. This was the one unique feature of the Tesla cars. If Porsche can implement this as well it will be a big deal. Price wise though the car is too expensive, especially with the top of the line Turbo S being close to 200K. That's Tesla Roadster territory.

Yep. This isn’t even Performance Model S competition. I mean, is anyone really cross-shopping $100k and $200k cars? I guess a few might be, but...

Still, good to see more EVs. More, please!

 

[voip-ninja]

Looks pretty much like the recent mules we've been seeing. I think it looks like a sleeker version of the Panamera. Definitely not anywhere close to the Mission E concept but still a very nice looking car IMO. We didn't learn anything we didn't know before during the presentation but one interesting point I noticed was the mention of software updates. This was the one unique feature of the Tesla cars. If Porsche can implement this as well it will be a big deal. Price wise though the car is too expensive, especially with the top of the line Turbo S being close to 200K. That's Tesla Roadster territory.

Drop Dead Gorgeous. Charging door in the right place as well.

 

[hydro 481]

Yep. This isn’t even Performance Model S competition. I mean, is anyone really cross-shopping $100k and $200k cars? I guess a few might be, but...

Still, good to see more EVs. More, please!

If anything people will be looking at the base Model S vs base Taycan which will reportedly cost around 90K or so before incentives and rebates. It's going to be interesting to see what kinda spec the base Taycan will produce. I actually had a deposit down for the base Taycan but once I found out the range will likely be around 200 miles EPA, I canceled. Paying 90K for an EV in 2020 that has 200 mile range? No thanks. I know the Taycan's target audience are unlikely to mind but if Porsche wants their electric cars to go mainstream then range will absolutely be an obstacle. One of the first questions I always get asked by ICE drivers is how much range my car has.

 

[GregRF]

"a European-spec Mercedes-Benz CLA 250 sports a Cd of 0.28, " - with the active grilles

Even with that you are still taking the manufacturer's word that the 2.8 is true. So my original point that I don't trust these manufacturers claims with out an independent test stands.

Here are some of the shenanigans they get up to:

"Improving the aerodynamics: Another practice that is questionable, but apparently not illegal, is to ‘improve’ the aerodynamics of the test vehicle and thereby reduce the effect of aerodynamic drag in slowing it down. This is reportedly done by carefully taping over every indentation or protrusion in the vehicle body, and in particular sealing the radiator grille and the cracks around all the doors and windows and the seams between other body panels and parts (Smeds and Riemersma, 2011). Cars could not practically be used in this state and the practice is therefore entirely unrepresentative of real-world driving conditions."

At least Tesla's number have been confirmed and they pass the eyeball wind tunnel test. The others certainly fail my eyeball wind tunnel.

 

[ecarfan]

It's going to be interesting to see what kinda spec the base Taycan will produce.

Agreed, that will be interesting. If the range of the base version is only around 200 miles EPA that will be disappointing and I think will hurt sales.

The Taycan is not a Model 3 competitor, it is in a completely different price class. See
Porsche’s Taycan is a sensational six-figure electric sports car
Quote: “the Taycan will begin its production life as two variants: the Taycan Turbo and the Taycan Turbo S, which run a staggering $150,900 and $185,000, respectively... Porsche has said it wants to offer versions of the Taycan that cost under $100,000. But even if or when that happens, the car is never going to be a mass-market sensation.”

When Porsche gets around to offering the base version of the Taycan, it will still be more expensive than a base Model S (but likely quicker and certainly offering better handling) and much more expensive than a Model 3 Performance, but it will likely have a much lower range, so not as useful.

The Taycan will likely have a small impact on Model S Performance sales, but the S is not a “sports car” and offers a lot more passenger room and cargo space. It is a different class of vehicle.

The upcoming Tesla Roadster is a Taycan competitor though it is significantly more expensive (and a lot quicker with much greater range). I hope that the Taycan is a success and that it drives Tesla to reduce the base Roadster cost.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Turbo S
2.6 seconds 0-60 (likely excludes rollout)
5121 pounds
750HP
Range unknown but probably a little over 200 miles.

Starting at $185k for Turbo S

Power and acceleration above are in the “Overboost” mode.

https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/taycan/taycan-models/taycan-turbo-s/


As people keep saying in this thread, it’s an excellent first effort from Porsche, but is not going to be a threat to Model 3 sales.

I’m personally a bit disappointed but not entirely surprised by the range. We’ll see what the EPA ends up at. Could be low enough to hurt their sales and the vehicle perception. Or it may not matter. If you spend $200k on a car you’re not exactly interested in practical considerations.

 

[Cirrus MS100D]

Is it eligible for the $7500 federal tax credit!?

 

[afadeev]

Looks pretty much like the recent mules we've been seeing. I think it looks like a sleeker version of the Panamera. Definitely not anywhere close to the Mission E concept but still a very nice looking car IMO.

Nice looking car, to my eye.
More eye-catchy exterior than Tesla's stubbornly conservative and bland sheet-metal styling.

We didn't learn anything we didn't know before during the presentation but one interesting point I noticed was the mention of software updates. This was the one unique feature of the Tesla cars.

OTA (over-the-air) updates has never been a unique Tesla feature.
To one extent or another, GM, Honda, Mercedes, Toyota (and likely others) have been doing OTA updates to various computers in their cars since early 2000's. The frequency and impact of Tesla's updates is certainly greater than that of the others, but the functionality has been around for decades at this point.

 

[ninpb]

Turbo S
2.6 seconds 0-60 (likely excludes rollout)
5121 pounds
750HP
Range unknown but probably a little over 200 miles.

Starting at $185k for Turbo S

Power and acceleration above are in the “Overboost” mode.

https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/taycan/taycan-models/taycan-turbo-s/


As people keep saying in this thread, it’s an excellent first effort from Porsche, but is not going to be a threat to Model 3 sales.

I’m personally a bit disappointed but not entirely surprised by the range. We’ll see what the EPA ends up at. Could be low enough to hurt their sales and the vehicle perception. Or it may not matter. If you spend $200k on a car you’re not exactly interested in practical considerations.

Future is bright.
I do agree that these customers arent the type to beat rush hour traffic to get to Vegas by taking accrued time off. They'll be flying.

 

[Kmartyn]

People are saying it lacks head and legroom, with a more cramped interior than expected. Very busy interior. Definitely not a Tesla competitor, they will have their own niche, but will help contribute to the acceptance of EVs.

 

[Octo]

Porsche’s pricing is about $80k too high to be a competitive EV. They position it as a niche super car instead. Tells you something how serious VAG is with their EV strategy.

 

[hydro 481]

Agreed, that will be interesting. If the range of the base version is only around 200 miles EPA that will be disappointing and I think will hurt sales.

The Taycan is not a Model 3 competitor, it is in a completely different price class. See
Porsche’s Taycan is a sensational six-figure electric sports car
Quote: “the Taycan will begin its production life as two variants: the Taycan Turbo and the Taycan Turbo S, which run a staggering $150,900 and $185,000, respectively... Porsche has said it wants to offer versions of the Taycan that cost under $100,000. But even if or when that happens, the car is never going to be a mass-market sensation.”

When Porsche gets around to offering the base version of the Taycan, it will still be more expensive than a base Model S (but likely quicker and certainly offering better handling) and much more expensive than a Model 3 Performance.

The Taycan will likely have a small impact on Model S Performance sales, but the S is not a “sports car” and offers a lot more passenger room and cargo space. It is a different class of vehicle.

The upcoming Tesla Roadster is a Taycan competitor though it is significantly more expensive (and a lot quicker). I hope that the Taycan is a success and that it drives Tesla to reduce the base Roadster cost.

I think the comparisons between the Taycan and Model 3/S simply comes down to the lack of premium EVs in the market. Like you said, they are different cars targeting a different audience. The Model 3 shouldn't even be in the conversation since the price difference is just too vast. Base Taycan vs base Model S will be the most sensible comparison. They are close enough pricewise where people will likely cross shop. But still, they offer very distinct differences.

 

[wenkan]

Not that they claim 0.22 cd which is even lower than Tesla’s, how come the range of Taycan is so bad?

 

[mongo]

Not that they claim 0.22 cd which is even lower than Tesla’s, how come the range of Taycan is so bad?

Definitely heavier
Possible other factors:
Cross section, tires, motor/ drive unit efficiency, wheel bearings, pack resistance

 

[Eno Deb]

People are saying it lacks head and legroom, with a more cramped interior than expected. Very busy interior. Definitely not a Tesla competitor, they will have their own niche, but will help contribute to the acceptance of EVs.

The car is clearly not designed as a family sedan. The roof line is lower than both Model S and Model 3, and from all reports it has a low seating position similar to the 911. If you want something more spacious, they'll have the Cross Tourismo version for that. And the first "affordable" (but still expensive) EV based on this platform will probably be the Audi E-tron GT rather than a Porsche.

 

[hydro 481]

@afadeev But none of those cars offer complex updates that adds substantial features like sentry mode, advanced summon, ect.

Tesla’s Over-The-Air Software Updates Have Big Auto Playing Catchup | CleanTechnica

 

[tvad]

@afadeev But none of those cars offer complex updates that adds substantial features like sentry mode, advanced summon, ect.

You mean all those complex over-the-air FSD features that don't work particularly well (or not at all)? LOL.

 

[hydro 481]

The car is clearly not designed as a family sedan. The roof line is lower than both Model S and Model 3, and from all reports it has a low seating position similar to the 911. If you want something more spacious, they'll have the Cross Tourismo version for that. And the first "affordable" (but still expensive) EV based on this platform will probably be the Audi E-tron GT rather than a Porsche.

The Audi E-tron GT could be the first true Model S competitor. Although I still think it will fall behind drastically when it comes to range.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Definitely heavier
Possible other factors:
Cross section, tires, motor/ drive unit efficiency, wheel bearings, pack resistance

Yes. It is still surprisingly bad with a 93kWh pack - though it is possible not all of that is available for use, which would explain part of it.

The sticky wide tires are probably a big detriment. It would be cool to see the range with 21” Ecopias! Or maybe just 21” MXM4-like tires.

More than the range, it will be interesting to see what the EPA kWh/100mi works out to be (P3D is about 32kWh/100mi). Takes the pack size out of it. 40kWh/100mi would be a pretty bad number but it looks like it may exceed that. Fortunately no one cares.

 

[JulienW]

Porsche’s pricing is about $80k too high to be a competitive EV. They position it as a niche super car instead. Tells you something how serious VAG is with their EV strategy.

It is a Porsche and is NOT priced out of line. In fact it is priced BELOW the Panamera and the 911. It is targeted at Porsche buyers and NOT Leaf buyers. The question is not considering a Tesla BUT why would a Porsche enthusiast buy a Panamera when they could get a Taycan?

I predict it is a Panamera killer and that is really what we want and need.

It is a BARGEN of a Porsche performance machine. Love it.

Taycan Turbo: $150,900
Panamera Turbo: $153,000
911 Turbo: $161,800
Taycan Turbo S: $185,000
Panamera Turbo S: $187,700
911 Turbo S: $190,700