Taycan Takedown

[JulienW]

And it did it on a closed course, not in regular traffic. I'm sure that would be absolutely obliterated if they tested a model 3 LR in that scenario. Charging speed & range both are hugely in favour of the Model 3. Heck, I bet the Model X Raven could outdo it.

I order to do this you must drive at about 120MPH to 140MPH the ENTIRE time you are driving for 24 hours. We know an X/S will heat soak and lower power after a few minutes at these speeds. So it is completely impossible for them to even come close to doing this. Go try and drive your X at 130MPH and see how long and far that last. This is a tremendous torture test and I would love to see if the 3 could do it but it will be tough row and probably not.

Here is a Model X test done by Bjørn Nyland and was able to go about 125MPH for about 60 miles before power was cut back. That is a LONG way from 2,129 miles and probably not even fast enough.

 

[juanmedina]

I wonder if model 3 could do it with track mode on.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I order to do this you must drive at about 120MPH to 140MPH the ENTIRE time you are driving for 24 hours. We know an X/S will heat soak and lower power after a few minutes at these speeds. So it is completely impossible for them to even come close to doing this. Go try and drive your X at 130MPH and see how long and far that last. This is a tremendous torture test and I would love to see if the 3 could do it but it will be tough row and probably not.

Here is a Model X test done by Bjørn Nyland and was able to go about 125MPH for about 60 miles before power was cut back. That is a LONG way from 2,129 miles and probably not even fast enough.

The charge speed is also not nearly fast enough. I bet the Model 3 could maintain the speed without power loss. If you charged at 250kW and stopped every 15 minutes to minimize the taper maybe you could get close but that's a lot of time wasted stopping and accelerating. On the other hand with a "battery fragging" software build you could probably remove the taper and just charge at 250kW all the time. I wonder if the actual production Taycan will be able to do it.
CORRECTION: I bet the battery swappable (are they all?) Model S could do it.

 

[JulienW]

I wonder if model 3 could do it with track mode on.

That is what I would love to see too. Problem is getting a track with a Supercharger. Another alternative is for someone in Europe to give it a try since they uses CCS. Bjørn are you listening. He is wild enough to try (of course it would take a team) and would produce a 24 hour Youtube video to boot.

 

[juanmedina]

That is what I would love to see too. Problem is getting a track with a Supercharger. Another alternative is for someone in Europe to give it a try since they uses CCS. Bjørn are you listening. He is wild enough to try (of course it would take a team) and would produce a 24 hour Youtube video to boot.

He says that the Model 3 can maintain 200km/h without heat soak

 

[JulienW]

CORRECTION: I bet the battery swappable (are they all?) Model S could do it.

It says that stopped to charge and nothing about pack swapping.

He says that the Model 3 can maintain 200km/h without heat soak...

Yes but 24 hours is a TOTALY different animal than a single run. A lot can change after 5 hours or 18 hours of this type of continuous punishment.

 

[204EV]

At an average of 200kph, the Model 3 performance uses 550wh/km so if you started with a full charge and went down to approx 4% to maximize charging profile (all based on approx 78KWh battery usable)

The initial lap would be:
78*.96 = 74.88kwh used = approx 136.14 km ( 40 mins)
Then repeat the process below:
Recharge for 5 min = 20.83Kwh ( at ~ average of 240kwh(assuming some ramp up/down)
20.83 Kwh = 37.87km (11.36 mins)
round up to 12min to include plugging/unplugging(generous if somone else is doing it)

There are 1440 mins in a day minus the original drive of 40 mins = 1400mins
1400 mins allow you to repeat the second process ~117 times
117 times gives you 4418.16 km + initial 136.14 km
Grand total would be:
4554.30 Km in 24 hours
Even if my numbers are off by 20% it would still exceed it

 

[Daniel in SD]

It says that stopped to charge and nothing about pack swapping.

I know the Taycan doesn't have pack swapping but the Model S did (does?) and I think that would allow it to average 90mph over 24 hours. Obviously it's apples and oranges.
Looks like 540Wh/km (870Wh/mi) at 120mph in that video. To average 90mph you can only be stopped 25% of the time to charge so you'd have to get an average charge rate 313kW. That doesn't include any overhead in accelerating, stopping and plugging in the charge cable. Doesn't seem possible. Of course there could be a more optimal speed and that video was a little faster than 120mph.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Recharge for 5 min

round up to 12min

1400 mins allow you to repeat the second process ~117 times

You forgot to include the charging time. 1400/17 = 82 times

 

[204EV]

You forgot to include the charging time. 1400/17 = 82 times

True my bad skipped over it when I changed to km. Makes it very comparable.
Actually, re-looking at the math, it looks the tests were probably done at the top speed the car could maintain then quick charging. So i guess having matching charge rates(shown) and nearly matched top speeds. They would probably be the same cause battery size doesn't matter(only the first charge) as there are far too many variables. One could theoretically charge for 2 min and drive for almost 5 mins repeatably to maximize. Very absurd lol

 

[CarlK]

I know the Taycan doesn't have pack swapping but the Model S did (does?) and I think that would allow it to average 90mph over 24 hours. Obviously it's apples and oranges.
Looks like 540Wh/km (870Wh/mi) at 120mph in that video. To average 90mph you can only be stopped 25% of the time to charge so you'd have to get an average charge rate 313kW. That doesn't include any overhead in accelerating, stopping and plugging in the charge cable. Doesn't seem possible. Of course there could be a more optimal speed and that video was a little faster than 120mph.

My guess is it was ran with battery in the range of highest charging rate like between 10%~30%. That's kind out cheat imo because you can only do that on the test track but not on the highway even with Tesla's supercharger coverage.

 

[Electroman]

I know the Taycan doesn't have pack swapping but the Model S did (does?) and I think that would allow it to average 90mph over 24 hours. Obviously it's apples and oranges.
Looks like 540Wh/km (870Wh/mi) at 120mph in that video. To average 90mph you can only be stopped 25% of the time to charge so you'd have to get an average charge rate 313kW. That doesn't include any overhead in accelerating, stopping and plugging in the charge cable. Doesn't seem possible. Of course there could be a more optimal speed and that video was a little faster than 120mph.

Maybe they swapped the cars? is that not allowed ?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Hi! Nice Tesla vs. Taycan analysis here:

This seems to be somewhat tongue in cheek, but I can’t tell what they are serious about.

Obviously the Taycan is going to be faster than a P3D+, even for the 0-60, at least for some trim level, but I am not sure why anyone cares that much, as it will be 2-3x the price of a Model 3 Performance, when well-equipped!

I hope it is a great car and a lot of people buy it. It is likely going to be a beast. And I hope they start selling it soon. If they actually can deliver without issues, it would be nice for Tesla to have some competition on performance, as they'll be forced to keep stepping up their game (even though the cars do not directly compete). Which is great!

True my bad skipped over it when I changed to km. Makes it very comparable.
Actually, re-looking at the math, it looks the tests were probably done at the top speed the car could maintain then quick charging. So i guess having matching charge rates(shown) and nearly matched top speeds. They would probably be the same cause battery size doesn't matter(only the first charge) as there are far too many variables. One could theoretically charge for 2 min and drive for almost 5 mins repeatably to maximize. Very absurd lol

In addition, note that Wh/mi on the trip meter in the video is very likely not the same as what the Supercharger has to add (don't blame me, just the way it works). For every 245Wh (DC) you add from the external source as indicated on the charging screen (measured somewhere on the DC side of the AC-DC converter - just DC with Supercharging of course), you get 230Wh out on the trip meter. I think it is likely the same with the Supercharger, though I have not specifically checked on the API with a supercharging event. To be clear, this ratio has nothing to do with AC-DC conversion losses. Those are separate and obviously don't apply for supercharging. It's just the way Tesla does the accounting.

So you very likely need to reduce your results by the ratio 230/245 = 0.94 (6%)

FWIW.

 

[JulienW]

This seems to be somewhat tongue in cheek, but I can’t tell what they are serious about.

Obviously the Taycan is going to be faster than a P3D+, even for the 0-60, at least for some trim level, but I am not sure why anyone cares that much, as it will be 2-3x the price of a Model 3 Performance, when well-equipped!

I hope it is a great car and a lot of people buy it. It is likely going to be a beast. And I hope they start selling it soon. If they actually can it would be nice for Tesla to have some competition on performance as they'll be forced to keep stepping up their game (even though the cars do not directly compete)....

Yea until it is released it mostly speculation. However while I'm very impressed with the endurance (and of course Porsche knows how to build a sports car) there are at least 2 things that IMO are a little worrisome.

• 0-60 in the 3s. If they don't break 2.9s (2.8s to break 0-100k) it will be considered SLOW no matter how many times it will launch.
• Range is under 275 miles it will also look bad. In fact any below 300 miles doesn't look good and it's is not looking likely to be over

A few more days and we will/may know the answers. I hope that have one at the North American HQ on display and I may go and look.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

• 0-60 in the 3s. If they don't break 2.9s (2.8s to break 0-100k) it will be considered SLOW no matter how many times it will launch.

• Range is under 275 miles it will also look bad. In fact any below 300 miles doesn't looks gook and this is not looking likely

I'd be a little shocked if the high-end trims don't end up in the 2s (we also need to specify not including rollout...there's massive confusion on this). Fairly sure Porsche is aware of the performance level that needs to be achieved! Anyway, I'd expect maybe 0.3-0.5 seconds better than the P3D+ (so 2.6-2.8, or 2.9-3.1). We'll see - I'm just guessing!

For range, I doubt very much anyone will talk about it much. Range is very important for a high-volume mass-market car, but for this car, I doubt people will care much. I expect it to be a little worse than the P3D+. The P3D+ is nominally about 260 miles of range (real world about 230-240), so I'd expect 200 miles real world for Taycan. Which would be fine if there's a decent charging network (that's a big if). But the people buying this car aren't likely to care THAT much anyway.

 

[JulienW]

Porsche just released a couple of interior pics. Looks like it will have 5 driving settings and 4 screens with the passenger getting a display too. Also it has 178 miles at 75%. So that is a pitiful 225 miles of range if the display is to be believed.

Range
Normal
Sport
Sport Plus
Individual

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So that is a pitiful 225 miles of range if the display is to be believed.

Wouldn't really surprise me if it were that low. Gotta keep the weight down (on the other hand, they also need to be able to provide lots of kW)! But remember the miles/km displayed can't necessarily be compared to rated miles in a Tesla - Porsche could use a guess-o-meter for all we know, we don't know how much reserve capacity they hide, etc. We'll see when the EPA test results are published; they'll give usable battery energy and rated miles.

 

[lotusland]

Obviously the Taycan is going to be faster than a P3D+, even for the 0-60, at least for some trim level, but I am not sure why anyone cares that much, as it will be 2-3x the price of a Model 3 Performance, when well-equipped!
FWIW.

I think wherever the Turbo ends up, Tesla will unlock existing P3D variants to match. There may be an upsell involved but the amount of chatter a move like this would create would be immense. At the same time Tesla may throw a small bone to the AWD guys, although I don't think they will ever reach P levels, otherwise most will avoid buying P-trim in the future.

 

[VT_EE]

Not a fan of the interior. There are loads of soft touch virtual buttons all over the place. I'll take my Model 3 dashboard any day.

 

[PhantomX]

Porsche just released a couple of interior pics. Looks like it will have 5 driving settings and 4 screens with the passenger getting a display too. Also it has 178 miles at 75%. So that is a pitiful 225 miles of range if the display is to be believed.

Range
Normal
Sport
Sport Plus
Individual


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I wouldn't worry about range if I were to get this car. Just like I didn't care about the mileage when I had the Cayman. When most people look at these cars, efficiency is likely one of the very last thing people looked at.