Supercharger V3 unveiling in Fremont

[insaneoctane]

Here's the thing I'm scratching my head over....Tesla has claimed no plans to retrofit existing V2 superchargers with V3 technology, right? Yet, the very selection of all the V2 charges is in key highly needed locations. The most important stations are in place already, so why would they refuse to retrofit these prime locations? I'm pretty sure the roll out doesn't have the budget to put 1 V3 on each side of each existing V2....

 

[ord3r]

Here's the thing I'm scratching my head over....Tesla has claimed no plans to retrofit existing V2 superchargers with V3 technology, right? Yet, the very selection of all the V2 charges is in key highly needed locations. The most important stations are in place already, so why would they refuse to retrofit these prime locations? I'm pretty sure the roll out doesn't have the budget to put 1 V3 on each side of each existing V2....

A retrofit removes an existing V2 station and replaces it with a V3 station.

For congested areas is it better to keep the V2 station AND add a new V3 station. No point in throwing away already installed chargers.

 

[insaneoctane]

A retrofit removes an existing V2 station and replaces it with a V3 station.

For congested areas is it better to keep the V2 station AND add a new V3 station. No point in throwing away already installed chargers.

Once V3 are available, then V2 SC will be like destination chargers and avoided like the plague....

 

[ord3r]

Once V3 are available, then V2 SC will be like destination chargers and avoided like the plague....

V3 could be more expensive, and we already saw they limit you to 80% before kicking on idle fees. V2 could be good for those that want or need a full charge.

Also, destination charging is 10-20x slower than supercharging, where V3 is only 50% faster than V2 across the charge curve (taken from Tesla’s blog post)

The mo’ chargers the mo’ better

 

[ElectricLee]

I think over time they will replace V2, but ADDing new Superchargers with V3 is just better to add to the total foot print in every pocket of town. So they should add them like Starbucks on every corner.

 

[kengchang]

Retrofitting V2 with V3 might take down the service for a month. Not ideal

 

[Zoomit]

Once V3 are available, then V2 SC will be like destination chargers and avoided like the plague....

I’ve been updating my charging models, and will post later, but V3 isn’t much faster than a non-shared 145kW V2. Notice that Tesla didn’t make that comparison in the blog post bar chart?

Replacing V2 with V3 is a massive waste of resources in all but the prime locations. As others have said, it’s better to just create additional sites.

 

[kengchang]

I’ve been updating my charging models, and will post later, but V3 isn’t much faster than a non-shared 145kW V2. Notice that Tesla didn’t make that comparison in the blog post bar chart?

Replacing V2 with V3 is a massive waste of resources in all but the prime locations. As others have said, it’s better to just create additional sites.

Does anyone think Tesla is being conservative on the taper curve?

 

[Zoomit]

Does anyone think Tesla is being conservative on the taper curve?

I hope they're being conservative. Are you asking whether Tesla is being overly-conservative and might expand the charge profile in the future?

It's certainly possible, but I don't expect it and certainly not anytime soon if it did happen. Of course, it'd be awesome if I were wrong.

 

[insaneoctane]

Did I miss something, but why all the talk about non-shared? Isn't sharing a reality?

 

[MarcG]

Did I miss something, but why all the talk about non-shared? Isn't sharing a reality?

Yes, you did miss something: V3 chargers will not have shared stalls

 

[kavyboy]

V3 could be more expensive, and we already saw they limit you to 80% before kicking on idle fees. V2 could be good for those that want or need a full charge.

Did we know that 80% limit only applies to V3, or will a firmware "update" impose that limit on all supercharger types? Do we even know that it will continue charging past that point with or without idle fees?

 

[EfficientWatts]

Did we know that 80% limit only applies to V3, or will a firmware "update" impose that limit on all supercharger types? Do we even know that it will continue charging past that point with or without idle fees?

i think the message only appears if the flag is set AND a certain threshold is reached in terms of supercharger station usage, though tesla could decide to set a blanket flag no matter what. otherwise, it wouldn't make sense to cap you at 80% if no one is around.

the message, however, is not because it is trying to protect the battery. i think the confusion came from the tesla raj video, when he mis spoke and said the message appeared because it was a high power station / protecting the battery, but if you look at the message, the text of that alert did not say "high power stall; max battery charge of 80%", it said "high usage supercharger station, max battery charge of 80%"

 

[Zoomit]

I’ve been updating my charging models, and will post later, but V3 isn’t much faster than a non-shared 145kW V2.

Posted: Updated Model 3 Charging Profiles & Durations

 

[insaneoctane]

non-shared 145kW V2

Yes, you did miss something: V3 chargers will not have shared

Yes, but lots of v2 non-shared talk is what I was referring to ...

 

[insaneoctane]

That gap between the new curve and the old curve from 50% up to about 80% is huge in terms of how long it takes to charge. Maintaining 100kW until 64% is a very meaningful number of minutes shaved off of the charge time, just by itself. Why I had only expected about 5 min of savings rather than the near 10 min we're likely to see.

Premise:

• If Tesla upgrades v2 to 145kW
• If you are not sharing a charger

Then why wouldn't V3 and v2 be IDENTICAL past 50% SOC? Look at the V3 tapper and you'll see it's below 150 kW by 50% SOC, at which point v2 should be able to provide the same profile (assuming my premise)

 

[MP3Mike]

Premise:

• If Tesla upgrades v2 to 145kW
• If you are not sharing a charger

Then why wouldn't V3 and v2 be IDENTICAL past 50% SOC? Look at the V3 tapper and you'll see it's below 150 kW by 50% SOC, at which point v2 should be able to provide the same profile (assuming my premise)

The V2 cables have limits, some of which are power/time based. As your charge goes on the V2 has to throttle it back to prevent the cables from overheating, while V3 has liquid cooled cables and can provide all the power the car can handle.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Then why wouldn't V3 and v2 be IDENTICAL past 50% SOC? Look at the V3 tapper and you'll see it's below 150 kW by 50% SOC, at which point v2 should be able to provide the same profile (assuming my premise)

I was wondering this too. Are they going to update the V2 supercharging to have the same taper?

The V2 cables have limits, some of which are power/time based. As your charge goes on the V2 has to throttle it back to prevent the cables from overheating, while V3 has liquid cooled cables and can provide all the power the car can handle.

You get the taper even in cold weather and when you arrive at a supercharger with a high SoC though...

 

[SageBrush]

I’ve been updating my charging models, and will post later, but V3 isn’t much faster than a non-shared 145kW V2.

That very much depends where you start and end on the charge curve for one, and second I think V2 is always going to be shared. So with reasonable battery management you can assure yourself of ~ 165 - 200 kW charging at a V3 location, or end up charging somewhere in the range of 50 - 145 kW at a V2 location.

I know where I'll go given the choice.

 

[Zoomit]

That very much depends where you start and end on the charge curve for one, and second I think V2 is always going to be shared. So with reasonable battery management you can assure yourself of ~ 165 - 200 kW charging at a V3 location, or end up charging somewhere in the range of 50 - 145 kW at a V2 locations.

I know where I'll go given the choice.

I certainly would go to a V3 site as well, but I would go to a V2 site if it was more convenient and not busy. There's no question that V3 is faster and that power output will be more reliable (no chance of needing to share). However, it's not a night and day difference over the many V2 sites that already exist, once they get software unlocked to 145kW.

I'm not say you are, but I think it's important to not overhype V3 at "250kW" or "1000 mph" because the reality is different.