Supercharger - Pickering ON

[wayner]

@techMology - I agree with everything you said, but the better solution for condo dwellers is to make it easier for condo dwellers to get charging at their condo parking spots in addition to a SC - hopefully legislation and/or regulation helps with this. There was speculation that construction at the Ontario Place parking lot was the Toronto SC that turned out to be unfounded, but that could also be the Liberty Village site as it is only a few hundred metres from Liberty Village - just across Lakeshore Blvd, the Gardiner, train tracks and the CNE grounds.

 

[rypalmer]

@techMology - I agree with everything you said, but the better solution for condo dwellers is to make it easier for condo dwellers to get charging at their condo parking spots in addition to a SC - hopefully legislation and/or regulation helps with this.

We're really off topic on this thread now but while I don't disagree with you completely, do you realize how expensive and difficult it may be to install personal L2 charging underground in owned parking spaces? Legislation or not, it's a very tough sell.

 

[wayner]

That's why it should be put in place when the building is constructed as it will be a lot cheaper if you can rough in some 240V drops at that time. And it can be used as a selling point to potential owners/renters. Many (most?) of the major office complexes in Toronto now have EV parking spots - isn't it just as expensive for them to put it in? But they have an incentive as they get LEED points for having chargers. Or there is a financial incentive with pay chargers. One of the newest buildings is One York and they have at least six Chargepoint chargers.

 

[Phillip L]

I find that Tesla erred in placing Superchargers in downtown cores.
As if people who live in condos are going to pull into one of these locations for half an hour after working all day, is ludicrous!
Even worse in the morning. People won’t pull into one of these before heading to work! Insane!
Placing Superchargers so close to one other such as Barrie and The Vaughan Mills area is ridiculous.
They should have stuck with their original plan of long distance travel. My opinion of course!

I cannot imagine condo people charging either before or after work. I imagine the way they will be used is once a week charging to 90% while shopping at the malls or shopping areas where they are being sited. That way they have a charge for the week. If they are going longer distances then they use the Superchargers like the rest of us fortunate enough to have home chargers.

 

[rypalmer]

That's why it should be put in place when the building is constructed as it will be a lot cheaper if you can rough in some 240V drops at that time.

Great. These changes should start moving the needle for new buildings only, in about 2-3 years time. That will be far too late for my preference.

And it can be used as a selling point to potential owners/renters.

In my experience speaking with real estate agents discussing projects under construction, builders are happy to rough in 240v services to parking spaces, provided the full burden of costs is borne by the purchaser. Maybe this will change, but probably not.

 

[Doug_G]

I don’t think these downtown Superchargers are mainly for condo owners. You have to pay for parking for the Ottawa site. It’s really for tourists and visitors. In Ottawa at least that was something that was indeed needed.

 

[wayner]

I don’t think these downtown Superchargers are mainly for condo owners. You have to pay for parking for the Ottawa site. It’s really for tourists and visitors. In Ottawa at least that was something that was indeed needed.

That's probably true but I bet they will be used a lot by condo owners and there are a lot of those today in downtown Toronto with more buildings being built all the time. @techMology - describes what he does today and I bet a lot of folks are similar - they will use L2 chargers in some of the downtown buildings when parking is "cheap", like on the weekends. There actually is quite a bit of L2 charging in FCP, Brookfield Place, TD Centre, etc. that is probably in oversupply on weekends and overnight.

 

[techMology]

@techMology - I agree with everything you said, but the better solution for condo dwellers is to make it easier for condo dwellers to get charging at their condo parking spots in addition to a SC - hopefully legislation and/or regulation helps with this. There was speculation that construction at the Ontario Place parking lot was the Toronto SC that turned out to be unfounded, but that could also be the Liberty Village site as it is only a few hundred metres from Liberty Village - just across Lakeshore Blvd, the Gardiner, train tracks and the CNE grounds.

It wouldn't be the first time Tesla mis-named a Supercharger site, but Ontario Place has never been considered Liberty Village. The term Liberty Village is really specific. Anyway, I agree with you in principal about charging in condo parking spots for the future, but that does nothing to help the 40% of Torontonians who live in apartment/condo buildings today. (Toronto highrise living by the numbers | CBC News). Arguably, many of these people fit Tesla's demographic target market, and there are tens of thousands of them.

I don’t think these downtown Superchargers are mainly for condo owners. You have to pay for parking for the Ottawa site. It’s really for tourists and visitors. In Ottawa at least that was something that was indeed needed.

While I don't doubt that this is part of the reason, I think it's more a function of the cost of real estate and location availability. There are few places you can park in downtown Toronto for free (I can't think of any), and lots of people who live there. Look at Hong Kong. It's a vertical city with the vast majority of residents living in high rises. They have 20 Superchargers. They aren't focused on road trips there.

I don't mind paying for parking if I can charge for free, especially if it's fast. Plus, with idle fees, it's not like you can plug into a Supercharger for 2+ hours while leisurely shopping or going to a movie. Also, Model 3 owners are paying to use Superchargers, so they're going to be plugging in judiciously, unless it's their only option to charge because they don't have a parking spot with a charger (ahem... me). Having a mall attached is handy - they can presumably pop in and run a few errands or grab a coffee during the 45 minutes they're plugged in. This is no different than the Sherway Gardens in Etobicoke or Vaughan Mills Superchargers, absent the parking fee. Those two locations have the added benefit of enabling long distance trips as they're located just off highways.

 

[hingisfan]

Can anyone confirm if Pickering is up to full power now? It's on the in car map now.

 

[Drone Flyer]

Where do they have Superchargers in downtown cores? The only one that fits that description in Eastern Canada is in Ottawa. We are not even sure that they are going to put one in downtown Toronto - they have one listed in Toronto but it that doesn't mean it will be downtown.

They have been putting them in suburban shopping malls and the few that have opened seem to be quite well used - including the Pickering one that isn't even technically open yet. And locations like Concord, Etobicoke and Pickering are on major highways so they are also very useful for those travelling longer distances, not just locals. And currently the Concord is not that close to any existing Superchargers - it will be if Vaughan gets built but Tesla doesn't always build the sites listed on its map, or they get moved.

There are 4 Superchargers slated for Toronto south of Yorkdale mall. Two look to be right down town and two slightly further north. Who knows where they will be put eventually. Isn't it the law now to build condos with 240 V outlets for charging?

 

[MarcoRP]

Can anyone confirm if Pickering is up to full power now? It's on the in car map now.

I would guess so, why would they mark The Lawrence Supercharger as unavailable if it still works?

 

[Sisko - DS9]

We're really off topic on this thread now but while I don't disagree with you completely, do you realize how expensive and difficult it may be to install personal L2 charging underground in owned parking spaces? Legislation or not, it's a very tough sell.

It never ceases to amaze me how very geographical society can be with the answer to a problem right in front of us. This problem with "condo" charging is a function of Ontario building codes and its lack of ability for the organization to see past its face.

Look, in Manitoba and Saskatchewan every outdoor parking lot has a 110 outlet at every parking spot; because those prairie provinces always are getting -30+ on a regular basis and you cannot buy a vehicle in those provinces without a block heater for that purpose. So during any given work day, there are tens of thousands of cars parked in parking lots, all plugged in so when people go to leave in the afternoon their cars will start so they can go home. A lot of people even add inside heaters that they have wired with a plug out the front of the car that plugs in along with the block heater and it keeps the car warm and hence no scraping at the end of the day.

My point is those provinces seem to have no issues with infrastructure and no issues with installing all these outlets as required for every building. Also, all condos in those provinces where people park outside; each spot has the outlets again. So when everyone goes home at night, they can still plug in and have their vehicle start in the morning. Things get even colder at night during the winter. I include a couple of photos to show you:



the long metal rods are the electrical outlets and they have the two outlets for each side and each spot. So there is one rod that sits between two spots and serves each. I put two photos of randomly chosen parking lots - one is a daycare/school the other is a condo complex.

at the end of the day, my point is the infrastructure really is not a problem, it requires the individual(s) in charge who makes the decisions to wake up stop living in their personal bubble. It is 2018 for heaven's sake; those provinces have been putting in outlets for 50 years. We certainly can add them to new condos in 2018.

 

[rypalmer]

Point taken; though at-home EV charging is an order of magnitude bigger power draw.

 

[sakimano]

I find that Tesla erred in placing Superchargers in downtown cores.
As if people who live in condos are going to pull into one of these locations for half an hour after working all day, is ludicrous!
Even worse in the morning. People won’t pull into one of these before heading to work! Insane!

yes they will. They'll do it once a week and be fine.

I have a friend who lives in a condo downtown and he level 2 charges, 1 day a week on his 85D. Condo board wouldn't install charging etc. so he's stuck. He drives to Brookfield place where he works (which is ironically 500 metres from his home, charges up to 400 kms during the day at about 28 km/h, and then parks back at his condo the rest of the week, using the car a few days a week for various trips but walking to work. If he goes far, he supercharges on the way. The once a week level 2 charging gets him enough range for little trips in the city, and enough to get him out of the city on bigger trips.

Now, rather than park at Brookfield place for $30 once a week, he will just go to a tesla downtown supercharger once a week or as needed to drill some range into his car and go on about his business.

What's wrong with that? You saying that's ridiculous is like someone saying it's ridiculous that you would charge your car at your house.

 

[sakimano]

I don't disagree but no one has ever said that there is going to be a downtown Supercharger. A while ago Tesla announced a bunch of Superchargers, including one for Toronto and put a pin on the map at the Toronto city hall.

But every Supercharger has a pin at city hall (or wherever Google has the city name). It isn't even clear how "Toronto" is defined. Does it mean downtown? Does it mean the pre-amalgamated city of Toronto. Does it mean the currently defined city of Toronto. If it is the latter then a Supercharger at the Metro zoo would still classify as Toronto. Give that Tesla has subsequently announced Superchargers for several of the other former cities that make up Toronto (North York, Etobicoke, Scarborough) I am guess that Toronto means the pre-amalgamated city.

And for 2018 they have some more granular sites announced including the Annex, Liberty Village and Yonge & Eg. But maybe the "Toronto" site will never be built and the three sites that I just mentioned will be the only sites in Toronto - none of them being downtown.

there's definitely going to be a downtownish one. Not at King & Bay neccessary, but within 5 kms of there, absolutely.

Bet you a Coke.

 

[rypalmer]

yes they will. They'll do it once a week and be fine.

I have a friend who lives in a condo downtown and he level 2 charges, 1 day a week on his 85D. Condo board wouldn't install charging etc. so he's stuck. He drives to Brookfield place where he works (which is ironically 500 metres from his home, charges up to 400 kms during the day at about 28 km/h, and then parks back at his condo the rest of the week, using the car a few days a week for various trips but walking to work. If he goes far, he supercharges on the way. The once a week level 2 charging gets him enough range for little trips in the city, and enough to get him out of the city on bigger trips.

Now, rather than park at Brookfield place for $30 once a week, he will just go to a tesla downtown supercharger once a week or as needed to drill some range into his car and go on about his business.

What's wrong with that? You saying that's ridiculous is like someone saying it's ridiculous that you would charge your car at your house.

This charging pattern is going to enable EV ownership for a surprising number of people, IMO. I'm focussed on bringing high amperage level 2 charging to my neighbourhood to fill exactly this need.

 

[sakimano]

There are 4 Superchargers slated for Toronto south of Yorkdale mall. Two look to be right down town and two slightly further north. Who knows where they will be put eventually. Isn't it the law now to build condos with 240 V outlets for charging?

i think that's just with houses, not condos. Would be interesting if they added it to condos.

 

[wayner]

there's definitely going to be a downtownish one. Not at King & Bay neccessary, but within 5 kms of there, absolutely.

Bet you a Coke.

5km is WAY larger than downtown. My definition of downtown would be bounded by the lake to the south, Bathurst to the west, Dundas to the north and Parliament to the east.

Both the Annex and Liberty Village are within 4km of King and Bay so if you are using 5km as your limit then both of those planned SCs will qualify.

 

[wayner]

...He drives to Brookfield place where he works (which is ironically 500 metres from his home, charges up to 400 kms during the day at about 28 km/h, and then parks back at his condo the rest of the week, using the car a few days a week for various trips but walking to work. If he goes far, he supercharges on the way. The once a week level 2 charging gets him enough range for little trips in the city, and enough to get him out of the city on bigger trips.

Now, rather than park at Brookfield place for $30 once a week, he will just go to a tesla downtown supercharger once a week or as needed to drill some range into his car and go on about his business. ...

I am surprised he doesn't do overnight or weekends at Brookfield Place as the parking is about $10. Maybe too much of an inconvenience.

 

[wayner]

i think that's just with houses, not condos. Would be interesting if they added it to condos.

Hopefully the SCs help to solve the problem of street parkers. There are tons of people in cities like Toronto and Montreal who don't even have a driveway to park in - they have to use the street. Solving the EV charging problem for them is kind of difficult unless you put in lots of chargers on the street - kind of like the pay and display units you find on the street today. Or they have to resign themselves to driving to a SC or someplace similar once a week or so.