Stop the Press! Tesla announces REAL HP numbers for P85D and P90L

[Andyw2100]

In a New York second. Without hesitation. In a New York second.

I don't believe in accepting that which isn't rightfully mine.

Especially from a company which is trying to make it.

I know I said I wasn't going to respond to you any more, but I want to address this, and I'm hoping for a kinder, gentler P85DEE.

Your answer is a noble and honorable one.

My question is do you honestly think the majority of US P85D owners, when offered a five figure check from Tesla Motors for doing nothing, would turn it down?

Without waiting for your answer on that, I'll give mine and say I don't. And that has been my point when I've said the things that you took to be threats. I was simply suggesting that if things reached what I expect their logical conclusion will be in Europe, (I recognize you don't agree with me on what will happen in Europe--that is besides the point) things will carry over here in the US. Those weren't threats, because I have no impact on what is happening in Europe.

 

[Auzie]

I know I said I wasn't going to respond to you any more, but I want to address this, and I'm hoping for a kinder, gentler P85DEE.

Your answer is a noble and honorable one.

My question is do you honestly think the majority of US P85D owners, when offered a five figure check from Tesla Motors for doing nothing, would turn it down?

Without waiting for your answer on that, I'll give mine and say I don't. And that has been my point when I've said the things that you took to be threats. I was simply suggesting that if things reached what I expect their logical conclusion will be in Europe, (I recognize you don't agree with me on what will happen in Europe--that is besides the point) things will carry over here in the US. Those weren't threats, because I have no impact on what is happening in Europe.

Andy no one knows what the majority of US P85D owners would do, hence the above statement the way you phrazed it reflects your position only.

That statement makes it clear to me what this is all about.

 

[Andyw2100]

Andy no one knows what the majority of US P85D owners would do, hence the above statement the way you phrazed it reflects your position only.

That statement makes it clear to me what this is all about.

I didn't claim to "know" anything.

I was giving my opinion on what I think the majority of P85D owners in the US will do if Tesla writes to them offering compensation for missing horsepower. I believe more will accept it than won't. If you disagree, that's fine. P85DEE already stated he would not accept any compensation, and I said that was noble and honorable.

But again, my point is that my believing that this is going to become a much bigger issue because of what is going on in Europe is not me "making threats."

 

[P85DEE]

I know I said I wasn't going to respond to you any more, but I want to address this, and I'm hoping for a kinder, gentler P85DEE.

Your answer is a noble and honorable one.

My question is do you honestly think the majority of US P85D owners, when offered a five figure check from Tesla Motors for doing nothing, would turn it down?

No, I don't. I think that most would take it. It's not uncommon for people to try and get all that they can get.

Without waiting for your answer on that, I'll give mine and say I don't. And that has been my point when I've said the things that you took to be threats. I was simply suggesting that if things reached what I expect their logical conclusion will be in Europe, (I recognize you don't agree with me on what will happen in Europe--that is besides the point) things will carry over here in the US. Those weren't threats, because I have no impact on what is happening in Europe.

Indeed, I recognize that part in bold. And I don't see how that would be anything less than tragic for a company the size of Tesla, not just in a fiscal sense, but also in terms of their reputation.

This is why, above all else, it is my opinion, and you probably don't agree with my opinion either, that if Tesla was using a sanctioned or recognized method for rating the power of their cars, and from the two sides of the argument that I have seen, I believe that to be the case, well then no penalties should be levied against them, irrespective of who "understood" what.

 

[bonnie]

Is this thread now officially dead?

Based on the above posts, I'm sadly going with 'no'.

 

[Andyw2100]

No, I don't. I think that most would take it. It's not uncommon for people to try and get all that they can get.



Indeed, I recognize that part in bold. And I don't see how that would be anything less than tragic for a company the size of Tesla, not just in a fiscal sense, but also in terms of their reputation.

This is why, above all else, it is my opinion, and you probably don't agree with my opinion either, that if Tesla was using a sanctioned or recognized method for rating the power of their cars, and from the two sides of the argument that I have seen, I believe that to be the case, well then no penalties should be levied against them, irrespective of who "understood" what.

Thank you.

That's all I was getting at when I wrote about "mainstream media."

As for Tesla's reputation, etc., when I wrote my letter I was really hoping Tesla would get out in front of all this. Unfortunately that has not happened. Even so, I think whatever lessons Tesla learns from this are better learned now, when the numbers are relatively small, than later, when they are dealing with much larger numbers, much more publicity, and dare I say much less forgiving customers, with the Model 3. This is all small potatoes compared to that.

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Based on the above posts, I'm sadly going with 'no'.

But we seem to be making at least a little progress towards at least some agreement now on at least some points.

 

[Max*]

But we seem to be making at least a little progress towards at least some agreement now on at least some points.

So you're saying that this thread only needs another 117 pages?

 

[Andyw2100]

So you're saying that this thread only needs another 117 pages?

Give or take.

 

[Auzie]

Is this thread now officially dead?

Based on the above posts, I'm sadly going with 'no'.

I am perfectly happy for this thread to be either locked or to die its natural death.

I also do not mind coming back from time to time to put a mirror by quoting back their own words to some posters. If you do not like what you see, do not post it. I equally dislike many things that have been posted here.


Going forward, Tesla may be giving away fodder for attacks by releasing detailed specs that masses are not trained to understand.

The thing with the public fights, most people pay attention to the attack only because that is the interesting bit and do not stay tuned long enough to follow the detailed, boring defence.


Peace.

 

[lolachampcar]

My wife just got an 85D as a loaner. That little bugger is quick, likely close to my old P85+. I can understand why people think they are a good alternative to the P85D.

 

[bonnie]

Low point reference point removed by the “crusader”. Therefore my post deleted.

Way to go. You remove your snarky post, but replace it with one more dig at a fellow forum member. Just shaking my head.

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It would not be the first time a forum is lost because it has been taken over by fanatics. Enjoy your cult...

Hasn't happened yet in all these years. No one is a victim here. Unless they want to make themselves into one, of course.

 

[Andyw2100]

If some people wish to continue throwing mud at Tesla by claiming conspiracy, deliberate deception, lies and similar, I do not mind coming back from time to time to put a mirror by quoting back their words.

That's not inflammatory at all.

We're not discussing things, right? There aren't two sides to every argument, right? All we're doing is throwing mud, claiming conspiracy (which, by the way, I'm not sure took place in this thread, and I know for a fact the posts you quoted from me where you claim I was making claims of conspiracy and brought into this thread were from a different one), deliberately deceiving, and telling lies.

Your post is uncalled for. Period.

When people on my side of the argument go slightly too far, and refer to people on your side as "defenders" they are called out for it. Forget about terms like fanboys, etc. Those terms have long-since been determined to be inflammatory, and none of us would even think of using them now. But I don't see anyone jumping in to criticize Auzie for this post. Why is that?

 

[bonnie]

That's not inflammatory at all.

We're not discussing things, right? There aren't two sides to every argument, right? All we're doing is throwing mud, claiming conspiracy (which, by the way, I'm not sure took place in this thread, and I know for a fact the posts you quoted from me where you claim I was making claims of conspiracy and brought into this thread were from a different one), deliberately deceiving, and telling lies.

Your post is uncalled for. Period.

When people on my side of the argument go slightly to far, and refer to people on your side as "defenders" they are called out for it. Forget about terms like fanboys, etc. Those terms have long-since been determined to be inflammatory, and none of us would even think of using them now. But I don't see anyone jumping in to criticize Auzie for this post. Why is that?

So it's been there less than 20 minutes, Andy. And unlike some posts, it is not specifically directed at one person. The moderators send a lot of private messages & we never see what is going on.

You're right. That sentence is unnecessarily inflammatory. So was your earlier comment where you said you were hoping a 'kinder gentler' forum member was going to reply. Everyone keeps making digs at each other.

I asked if it could stop. Clearly it cannot. So I'm just going to avoid this thread going forward and would appreciate it if my name were left out of posts.

 

[gsxdsm]

Can we just lock this thread? There is no good that will come to either "side". We're all on the same team here and the emotions in this thread are pulling people apart. Let's move on. Those that are upset can deal with Tesla directly and those that are happy can discuss other driver dynamics.

 

[sorka]

Can we just lock this thread? There is no good that will come to either "side". We're all on the same team here and the emotions in this thread are pulling people apart. Let's move on. Those that are upset can deal with Tesla directly and those that are happy can discuss other driver dynamics.

That wouldn't make any difference. Another "RIP 691" or "691 hp should have an asterisk" thread will just pop up to take it's place. Maybe even more. It's like Hydra. All the same arguments will be made as though for the first time.

Geez, and I used to like Groundhog Day (the movie)......

 

[Andyw2100]

So it's been there less than 20 minutes, Andy. And unlike some posts, it is not specifically directed at one person. The moderators send a lot of private messages & we never see what is going on.

You're right. That sentence is unnecessarily inflammatory. So was your earlier comment where you said you were hoping a 'kinder gentler' forum member was going to reply. Everyone keeps making digs at each other.

I asked if it could stop. Clearly it cannot. So I'm just going to avoid this thread going forward and would appreciate it if my name were left out of posts.

My response about the Kinder and Gentler I may have worded poorly. It seemed to me he was already posting in a Kinder and Gentler way, and I was trying to acknowledge that. Apparently I failed.

 

[JonG]

I've lost the argument here : is it...

Tesla have..

1) published numbers that are factually wrong

2) published numbers which has mislead some, although done without malice

3) published numbers to deliberately hype the pxxd cars and exaggerate performance with respect to other cars inc their own and this was in effect to mislead

4) something else

i definitely believe 2 and fail to see how anyone could deny that. We wouldn't have this debate if nobody felt mislead.
I suspect 3 is true, but it's impossible to prove motivation so the defenders know no more than the accusers.
I think they have done 1 too at times by being either optimistic or pessimistic at times (eg 85D performance still appears to be under reported)

Half the arguments are against different points eg defending 1 against an assertion of 3 is stupid.

 

[Canuck]

Tesla have..

1) published numbers that are factually wrong

No. The numbers are factually correct. The motors combined can produce 691 hp but the battery can't deliver what is necessary. So...

1) published numbers are factually correct but technically wrong

...defending 1 against an assertion of 3 is stupid.

Calling people here "stupid" is not cool, especially given your analysis of "1", as above, but also in general it's best to make your arguments without derogatory commentary.

 

[JonG]

No. The numbers are factually correct. The motors combined can produce 691 hp but the battery can't deliver what is necessary. So...

1) published numbers are factually correct but technically wrong



Calling people here "stupid" is not cool, especially given your analysis of "1", as above, but also in general it's best to make your arguments without derogatory commentary.

Your comprehension is sadly lacking on my post. I quoted the arguments and my analysis of 1 is also included. I stated that I felt in places they have not been accurate like the 85d performance is 4.2s does not seem correct given the high number of people that have experienced faster.

And to argue against one point by arguing for a different point is what? Futile? Is that a better word? The action is stupid which is not the same as the person being stupid.

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And for completeness your alteration to 1 is in fact either 2 or 3 - how can you factually correct but technically wrong?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Your comprehension is sadly lacking on my post. I quoted the arguments and my analysis of 1 is also included. I stated that I felt in places they have not been accurate like the 85d performance is 4.2s does not seem correct given the high number of people that have experienced faster.

And to argue against one point by arguing for a different point is what? Futile? Is that a better word? The action is stupid which is not the same as the person being stupid.

I have avoided this thread lately because I'm not even sure there is even a coherent argument from either "side". There are too many people with different opinions that I gave up trying to track it, so I just respond directly to certain points.

I will say that the points you laid out are all connected. If you believe 1) that the 691hp number is factually true, then depending on how you define "mislead", you may not believe that is misleading (esp. if you don't believe Tesla had malice). Then 2) and 3) would not follow.

If you believe that 1) the 691hp number is factually false, then 2) and 3) can easily follow. Thus most of the argument (at least when I was still able to follow it) was on whether the statement can be considered factually true and then the rest is just a tangent on that (with a whole side discussion about the 0-60 rollout which is somewhat related).