Stop the Press! Tesla announces REAL HP numbers for P85D and P90L

[redox]

Sorry, I stand corrected. You are right.

I know! :biggrin:

 

[Krugerrand]

The portion I said indicated that "Everyone else" -- which given context included you -- "does not care" if Tesla provides "accurate numbers to base their buying decision on". I guess we just use English differently.

And no, I'm not trying hard to do anything. I do find it frustrating when I see the appearance of defending FUD or dishonesty, and feel it appropriate to call it out.

 

[stopcrazypp]

So the ICE manufacturers use racing gasoline, an added turbo charger and maybe a NOx injection to determine the hp - some fake hp - of their cars (which in real life use normal gasoline, no turbo charger, and no NOx injection)? That would be new to me. But then, looking at the criminal energy of Volkswagen, everything is thinkable these days.

They didn't need to use that, they still use SAE gross (2016 Ram diesel trucks), which allows them to use a different intake, exhaust, fuel injection, ignition timing settings, and no engine driven accessories (even ones necessary for operation of the engine like oil, water pumps, and alternators). This can lead to 36% difference in horsepower rating vs SAE net (365hp vs 235hp in the Cadillac Eldorado).

Even SAE net vs SAE certified has loopholes. For example, using premium fuel and extra oil in crankcase and using a custom ECU setting to take advantage of that. For the Toyota Camry V6, this resulted in 10% difference in horsepower rating (210 hp vs 190 hp).

 

[wk057]

Have the presses stopped yet?

 

[tomas]

Have the presses stopped yet?

What's that, a bump???

 

[lolachampcar]

Oh, WK, EE is not going to be happy with you (or you either tomas)

 

[Auzie]

Resolution in Norway

Council dropped the case, Tesla win

Owners may choose to sue. The cards are fully stacked in Tesla's favour in court.

Hypothetically, if Tesla offers car buy back (it would be unwise to offer anything else) to litigants, even for a full original purchase price, such outcome would see the customers giving away their cars for considerably less than the current Model S prices. The current prices have gone up due to a large NOK dive against USD in 2015.

 

[P85DEE]

Oh, WK, EE is not going to be happy with you (or you either tomas)

No, I'm fine.

Take a look below.

Thanks for the update Auzie.

Resolution in Norway

View attachment 103177

Council dropped the case, Tesla win

Owners may choose to sue. The cards are fully stacked in Tesla's favour in court.

Hypothetically, if Tesla offers car buy back (it would be unwise to offer anything else) to litigants, even for a full original purchase price, such outcome would see the customers giving away their cars for considerably less than the current Model S prices. The current prices have gone up due to a large NOK dive against USD in 2015.

 

[Discoducky]

Interesting development and I wonder if there is precedent for suing in this situation and winning in Norway within the automotive sector?

 

[Auzie]

Interesting development and I wonder if there is precedent for suing in this situation and winning in Norway within the automotive sector?

They must be insane if they sue after this, what can they possibly hope to gain

Loss of money, time and further upset is certain for prospective litigants

 

[Discoducky]

They must be insane if they sue after this, what can they possibly hope to gain

Loss of money, time and further upset is certain for prospective litigants

Ludicrous actually, but hey, who am I to judge

 

[stopcrazypp]

Resolution in Norway

View attachment 103177

Council dropped the case, Tesla win

Owners may choose to sue. The cards are fully stacked in Tesla's favour in court.

Hypothetically, if Tesla offers car buy back (it would be unwise to offer anything else) to litigants, even for a full original purchase price, such outcome would see the customers giving away their cars for considerably less than the current Model S prices. The current prices have gone up due to a large NOK dive against USD in 2015.

If even the consumer group agrees with Tesla's conclusions, the case is going to be very weak in a court. From other cases, the consumer group tends to err on the consumer side when possible and push changes by the company.

It would be nice to get a translation, but it looks like from skimming and the limited English, the following:

For the 0-100 kph in 3.3 seconds claim:
Tesla first showed a list of achieved numbers with video, then explained the roll out (I notice "NHRA" mentioned so presumably they are doing that) and then a list of comparative achieved numbers by Top Gear on other vehicles (with many having a far larger gap between advertised and achieved numbers).

For the 700hk / 691hp claim:
They explained that they specified "motorkraft" (AKA "motor power"). They then explained ECE R85 and what appears to be a case example from 2006: "Svein Helge Thomassen mot Nissan Nordic Europe". The rest I couldn't tell.

 

[dsm363]

Well this is interesting.

 

[P85DEE]

Is it time to stick a fork into this entire matter?

This seems like a crushing blow to those who thought that the ruling was going to go against Tesla in this matter.

 

[brianman]

... list of comparative achieved numbers by Top Gear ...

rotflol

So is Top Gear entertainment or not? Sounds like the courts around the world should at least get on the same page on that point.

 

[Auzie]

Is it time to stick a fork into this entire matter?

This seems like a crushing blow to those who thought that the ruling was going to go against Tesla in this matter.

Some of my favourite people call moments like these a teaching moment

 

[P85DEE]

Some of my favourite people call moments like these a teaching moment

Yes. I can see why.

Perhaps we should all take a moment to, well, reflect.

 

[Canuck]

Another teaching moment: It's best not to gloat when you win, or get too down when you lose.

 

[wk057]

Would like to see a link to the actual pages about the Norway resolution (that would be translatable).

In any case, while a bit surprising if it is in fact in Tesla's favor, I don't see how it's a loss. It sounds like the equivalent of the BBB in the USA making a ruling... basically means very little legally.

 

[tomas]

Another teaching moment: It's best not to gloat when you win, or get too down when you lose.

Amen. Some feel tesla was ok, others feel they intentionally misled. Truth is probably right down the middle. Hard to litigate. Hope everybody (including tesla above all) learns a lesson. This car is to good to need marketing stretches.