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Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2016

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Ameliorate, you're quicker on the draw than me! Let me add:

Shorts drew down perhaps a million additional shares this week to control TSLA's rise, but we ended up more than $10 higher than last week. With an upswing in afternoon trading today, you have to think the shorts are a little apprehensive about another week such as this.
 
Is this the first reporting that also includes the SCTY shorts?

This would be the first if they are included, because the merger date was Nov 17. Perhaps someone can chime in with an estimate of how many shares are likely to be converted SCTY short shares. No matter the source of the short shares, it's going to be something to behold when they start jumping ship.
 
Perhaps someone can chime in with an estimate of how many shares are likely to be converted SCTY short shares.

From what I can find the 11/15 numbers showed there were 30,301,600 shorted shares of SCTY, which should have converted to 3,333,176 shares of TSLA. So that would account for about 80% of the increase in TSLA short interest from 11/15 to 11/30.
 
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Spiegel is a "hedge fund manager," among the smartest men in the room. He says a lot of smart stuff. Musk is just a guy who creates stuff.

I'm shocked any semi credible news source is willing to cite anything Spiegel says unless they are pointing out that he is not a financial analyst, has no present financial qualifications, and operates (is basically the sole operator of) what looks like a fake "pooled investment fund".
 
You must be new around here. You should read the ER CC transcripts say from Q1 2015 to get a better sense of Musk speak.

Maybe read Ashley Vance's book or at least read the excerpt or if not, just this one paragraph as a sample data point:

The proposed timeline for upending the aerospace industry was comically short. One of the earliest SpaceX presentations promised the first complete engine by May 2003, a second engine in June, the body of the rocket in July, and everything assembled by August. A launchpad would be ready by September, and the first launch would take place in November 2003, or about 15 months after the company started. A trip to Mars was naturally slated for somewhere near the end of the decade. “Elon has always been optimistic,” said Kevin Brogan, an early SpaceX recruit. “That’s the nice word. He can be a downright liar about when things need to get done. He will pick the most aggressive time schedule imaginable assuming everything goes right, and then accelerate it by assuming that everyone can work harder.”
There's no doubt Elon is overly optimistic, but I do have reasons to believe that this time will be different:

- Quote is 13 years old and related to a topic he had no idea on yet (new rocket company). My theory is that Elon's time predictions go off the rails primarily when he's working from little information (i.e., trying to do something brand new, as opposed to giving predictions while actively working on something).
- Tesla projections aren't just interviews or off-the-cuff comments - he's the CEO of a publicly-traded company. He knows he's under massive scrutiny from investors and governmental agencies. There's a SP impact for everything he does or says. This is not the case with SpaceX so he can be as loose as he wants.
- More to my theory above, this isn't Elon trying to predict building his first Roadster. He's got experience under his belt and has built and developed a couple cars now. He knows what it takes and just how hard it is.
- Elon has publicly acknowledged the shortcomings of the X launch and has said many times that the 3 has been developed with ease of manufacturing in mind. No reason to think he's embellishing here.
- M3 is critical - make or break for the company and for the future of electric cars. He could easily take his eye off the ball with the X and not miss a beat because the S was selling more than ever anticipated. He cannot take his eye off the M3 ball under any circumstances and he has said numerous times that it is his top priority. Elon's top priorities get done, period. Maybe several months late, but not several years.
- Suppliers are on notice and Tesla is prepared to insource to whatever extent necessary. Again, experience with past failures should come into play here.
 
Ameliorate, you're quicker on the draw than me! Let me add:

Shorts drew down perhaps a million additional shares this week to control TSLA's rise, but we ended up more than $10 higher than last week. With an upswing in afternoon trading today, you have to think the shorts are a little apprehensive about another week such as this.
I was exceptionally curious with the Large draws of shares short nearly every day, thanks for keeping us up to date.
 
You must be new around here. You should read the ER CC transcripts say from Q1 2015 to get a better sense of Musk speak.

Maybe read Ashley Vance's book or at least read the excerpt or if not, just this one paragraph as a sample data point:

The proposed timeline for upending the aerospace industry was comically short. One of the earliest SpaceX presentations promised the first complete engine by May 2003, a second engine in June, the body of the rocket in July, and everything assembled by August. A launchpad would be ready by September, and the first launch would take place in November 2003, or about 15 months after the company started. A trip to Mars was naturally slated for somewhere near the end of the decade. “Elon has always been optimistic,” said Kevin Brogan, an early SpaceX recruit. “That’s the nice word. He can be a downright liar about when things need to get done. He will pick the most aggressive time schedule imaginable assuming everything goes right, and then accelerate it by assuming that everyone can work harder.”

You are correct that Elon is sometimes aggressive. I think the book excerpt is spot on. I have said many times here that I think Elon makes the most optimistic possible schedule the official goal way too often. So if something should take 24 months, he says it should be 12, his team does it in 18 and it is branded a late failure. I wish he would stop doing it but his insane style probably shaved off 6 months in my example. Its a good result but bad optics.

As for Tesla's supposedly horrible track record:

The roadster: Late. They didn't know what they were doing and thought they could re-use much more from Lotus than they could.
The Model S: On time. The first car they did from the ground up, and a mission critical one. Designed to be great, not cheap.
The Model X: Famously late. Designed to be loopy complicated, to shore up high-end demand until the 3 could be built. Since the model S was proving to be more popular than expected, the X was not needed financially so it was allowed to slack. Wasn't critical.
The Model 3: I predict will be similar to the model S. They will produce a few "on time" then ramp quickly. Designed to be simple to manufacture, the BIW line will take fewer steps, be more idiot proof and the interior will be designed to be assembled and installed by robots. The drive train is already simple. The final assembly will still be done partially with people, but the steps will be fewer and throughput high.

Here is another way to think of it. Making EV's SHOULD be very simple. A large part of the machining cost of an ICE is simply not present in an EV so that cost would emerge if all things were equal. But we haven't see that case yet.

The Roadster wasn't simple since it wasn't their design. Basically hand-built custom cars.
The Model S wasn't simple because it didn't need to be. Wildly profitable at 100k+ it just needed to be good.
The Model X wasn't simple because Elon doubled down on fancy instead of making it simpler. Same philosophy though, wildly profitable at 100k.
The Model 3 will be the first instance of nothing unnecessarily physically fancy. True, fancy sensors and hardware is being installed but that is just to future-proof and self-driving reduces to a software problem that they will solve later. But even with a HUD, I think they are considering the interior to be a single dashboard unit that can be assembled elsewhere and installed in a snap.

complexity_table.JPG


I imagine the interior being offloaded to the underused upstairs or other facilities for 2017. So it isn't hard to see how they will get to market and ramping pretty quickly.
 
There's no doubt Elon is overly optimistic, but I do have reasons to believe that this time will be different:

- Quote is 13 years old and related to a topic he had no idea on yet (new rocket company). My theory is that Elon's time predictions go off the rails primarily when he's working from little information (i.e., trying to do something brand new, as opposed to giving predictions while actively working on something).
- Tesla projections aren't just interviews or off-the-cuff comments - he's the CEO of a publicly-traded company. He knows he's under massive scrutiny from investors and governmental agencies. There's a SP impact for everything he does or says. This is not the case with SpaceX so he can be as loose as he wants.
- More to my theory above, this isn't Elon trying to predict building his first Roadster. He's got experience under his belt and has built and developed a couple cars now. He knows what it takes and just how hard it is.
- Elon has publicly acknowledged the shortcomings of the X launch and has said many times that the 3 has been developed with ease of manufacturing in mind. No reason to think he's embellishing here.
- M3 is critical - make or break for the company and for the future of electric cars. He could easily take his eye off the ball with the X and not miss a beat because the S was selling more than ever anticipated. He cannot take his eye off the M3 ball under any circumstances and he has said numerous times that it is his top priority. Elon's top priorities get done, period. Maybe several months late, but not several years.
- Suppliers are on notice and Tesla is prepared to insource to whatever extent necessary. Again, experience with past failures should come into play here.

My quote was a mere data point and I picked that one as it was readily available for copy-paste. What it illustrates is a chronic Musk ailment that any follower would know.

Going point by point is too laborious. I will just reiterate what I originally said a few hours ago: An automated assembly line is going to be first of it's kind. Something brand new. Something Musk is figuring out on the fly. How can we have any confidence in Musk timeline when we know how Musk speaks very very well. Especially knowing all we got so far is a hole in the floor??

On the topic of short term price movement: I will be very (positively) surprised if even 1 model-3 gets delivered in '17. But ironically I actually expect Tesla stock price to strongly trend up over next couple of quarters. Q3 ER was discredited because of ZEV revenue and increase in accounts payable. I believe Q4 ER will be equally positive and the street will be forced to reprice the business model to the upside. I am also expecting to see gradual traction on TE and accompanied cashflows. I also believe fully-autonomy gaining credibility... So all in all I'm actually bullish, very bullish, on the price trajectory... I just couldn't care less about Model 3 for 17.
 
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This is kind of getting bizzare. Everybody is talking about the car while Musk is talking about the factory. The brand new thing is a brand new kind of factory line. (not a brand new car)

How do you know the factory line will be ready on time?

Are the robots there yet? Tested and verified? How much time do they need vs have?
 
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Your point is very valid.
The Canadian dollar has been seriously devalued. Tesla has to adjust its price accordingly.

On the other hand, The euro has lost 1/3 of its value in the last 6 years, and German
Cars don't seem to get cheaper here in the USA. I resent that.

For better or worse, this is how European luxury car makers do business. But it goes both ways. When $US cratered few years back, price increase you've seen were very,very gradual and modest compared to devaluation.
I was in a market for Porsche and US Porsche prices were dirt cheap (expressed in other currencies) compared to the rest of the world. I know, I imported a Porsche from US, it was at least 20% cheaper after all additional costs. That was the time when Porsche USA was eating costs of currency change. Today is opposite, they're raking profits in US, and eating costs in Canada...

My point is that Tesla doesn't do that, Tesla floats prices in other countries more aggressively. It's not good or bad, it's just what is. This protects Tesla margins, but creates sales volatility outside of US.
I keep seeing same 61 cars in Canada for 4 days now (ev-cpo), it seems none have sold. Discounts to what original price would have been is in the $11-$12K CAD range for few vehicles (not all). But yeah, the best deals sold pretty quickly days before.

While I'm sure production target is/will be reached, I'm becoming tiny bit concerned too many inventory cars stay unsold.
 
This is kind of getting bizzare. Everybody is talking about the car while Musk is talking about the factory. The brand new thing is a brand new kind of factory line. (not a brand new car)

How do you know the factory line will be ready on time?

Elon has made it very clear that the internal expected time frame is well ahead of the projected timeframe to guarantee the Model 3 is ahead of schedule.

The problems that caused the Model X delays won't/can't exist with the Model 3

A lot of people appear to have forgotten that Tesla's initial "official guidance" for the Model S was ~10,000 -12,000 annually.
 
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This is kind of getting bizzare. Everybody is talking about the car while Musk is talking about the factory. The brand new thing is a brand new kind of factory line. (not a brand new car)

How do you know the factory line will be ready on time?

I don't agree with the premise. The car can be on time without a new kind of factory. A very high volume of model 3 will be produced in one or more new kind of factory. I think they will make a new BIW line that will efficiently make model 3 bodies. It will get painted in the current paint shop. The final assembly will be done on a new, small but efficient line. Since each part of the car is designed to require fewer steps, you can either build a line to produce modest volumes in a compact space, or very high volumes in a dedicated space. 0.5 and 1.0. He has been really clear on this.

Have you been on the tour? honestly Fremont is a hodge-podge since it wasn't designed for them. That is why factory design is on Elon's mind. The unspoken truth is that Fremont is not ideal, not by a long shot.
 
The model X was late, but they admitted it was going to be late as soon as they knew, did they not?

I believe this is part of the point that posters whom are trying to be cautious about timelines are saying.
Sure, EM/TM set and reset the timeline for the X release.
IMO, *IF* EM comes out at the 4rth Q ER/CC and says there will be a delay in release of the '3' the SP of TSLA will suffer.
 
I don't agree with the premise. The car can be on time without a new kind of factory. A very high volume of model 3 will be produced in one or more new kind of factory. I think they will make a new BIW line that will efficiently make model 3 bodies. It will get painted in the current paint shop. The final assembly will be done on a new, small but efficient line. Since each part of the car is designed to require fewer steps, you can either build a line to produce modest volumes in a compact space, or very high volumes in a dedicated space. 0.5 and 1.0. He has been really clear on this.

AFAIK, we don't have any proof of... basically anything. All we know if what Musk intends to do... Just 3 months ago Dana Hull reported that basically nothing is put on the floor (although she used much more polite words). Here is the link. Here is the sub-text: "The Fremont factory will have to floor it to meet the Model 3 production deadline."

As far as I know, nothing has been "floored" so far.
 
Especially knowing all we got so far is a hole in the floor??

Dear Santa, my wish is that people would quote more accurately.

* I did not see any significant production line build up for model 3 - the guide showed some small screened areas that we were told they started some work with the line. It was a big screened area next to the gigantic stamping machine where construction work under ground was taking place - is it for a new stamping machine for model 3?

"Hole in the floor" =/= screened area where underground work is taking place next to the current big stamper.

And Elon did not have a sleeping bag next to the assembly line (also often "quoted"), there was a conference room nearby where sleep happened.
 
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