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Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2014

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"It is FUD and if the average Joe hasn't caught on to that by now? They are in the wrong game."

Very well said. And If I have three apples for sale and three americans are standing before me but then three chinese and three european guys come and want apples, too, I have to sell one apple to each group to satisfy at least each of these groups with SOME apple as I am not able to satisfy demand. Concluding from this example that the demand for apples by americans has gone down is simply nonsense.
 
Here is the last chance can those demand FUD ever exists before Elon confirms 1000/week production rate and 13000 delivery target for Q4. In Q4, the production constraint will be greatly relieved and all markets (NA/EU/China) will be able to top the record delivery number in the past.

"It is FUD and if the average Joe hasn't caught on to that by now? They are in the wrong game."

Very well said. And If I have three apples for sale and three americans are standing before me but then three chinese and three european guys come and want apples, too, I have to sell one apple to each group to satisfy at least each of these groups with SOME apple as I am not able to satisfy demand. Concluding from this example that the demand for apples by americans has gone down is simply nonsense.
 
From my understanding, getting the registration data in the US requires a LOT of legwork going state to state to ask them for their information, and even then I don't think you would get it very easily (or quickly). There are *some* EU nations that publish their numbers, but I don't think all do. And China sorta posts their data... sometimes? But now we have Japan and HK to throw into the mix... Good luck figuring it out before Tesla tells us.

But does Tesla even tell us? Do they break out sales by region. I looked over the last two shareholder letters and only found global deliveries, not regional. Do they publish this separately somewhere?
 
Did anyone else notice that Google News really didn't publicize much about the fake rumors?

There was 1 item in my TSLA newsfeed referencing the September sales, and below that an article about Credit Suisse defending Tesla.

I'm wondering if the search engines are getting more sophisticated at filtering out the garbage.
 
Did anyone else notice that Google News really didn't publicize much about the fake rumors?

There was 1 item in my TSLA newsfeed referencing the September sales, and below that an article about Credit Suisse defending Tesla.

I'm wondering if the search engines are getting more sophisticated at filtering out the garbage.

I noticed and was pleasantly surprised.

Curt - thanks for working to call attention to the Ward's auto erroneous / fabricated reporting.
 
I sold may shares in Tesla today, not because of the so called decline in sales in September, but because there may be a fall-off in sales in the 4th quarter due to most buyers waiting until February to get all-wheel drive. Very interested in thoughts by others on this possibility.

The performance buyers wanting all-wheel drive and nonperformance buyers not wanting all-wheel drive can get a model S in December, but are there enough of these buyers to meet 4th quarter goals? First quarter of 2015 should be a good one. Will there be a 4th quarter warning during the the call next week?
 
I sold may shares in Tesla today, not because of the so called decline in sales in September, but because there may be a fall-off in sales in the 4th quarter due to most buyers waiting until February to get all-wheel drive. Very interested in thoughts by others on this possibility. The performance buyers wanting all-wheel drive and nonperformance buyers not wanting all-wheel drive can get a model S in December, but are there enough of these buyers to meet 4th quarter goals? First quarter of 2015 should be a good one. Will there be a 4th quarter warning during the the call next week?
I think the timing of the "D" event suggests Tesla carefully considered the impact the "D" might have to orders in the remainder of 2014, and I suspect they found that the backlog was big enough already, that even with some cancellations, they were in good shape. Especially since the early-adopter P85D crowd could order immediately and would likely get their cars in December. So I think Q4 is still fine. And I am starting to think Q3 will be better than so-so, which is an improvement. Today's phony news looks like manipulation rather than useful information.
 
I sold may shares in Tesla today, not because of the so called decline in sales in September, but because there may be a fall-off in sales in the 4th quarter due to most buyers waiting until February to get all-wheel drive. Very interested in thoughts by others on this possibility.

The performance buyers wanting all-wheel drive and nonperformance buyers not wanting all-wheel drive can get a model S in December, but are there enough of these buyers to meet 4th quarter goals? First quarter of 2015 should be a good one. Will there be a 4th quarter warning during the the call next week?

I thought about this a lot too, but believe it or not... Not everyone will get the D they simply just don't need to have that level of power. The Model S as it stands is still a phenomenal car and some people will always swear by RWD.
 
I sold may shares in Tesla today, not because of the so called decline in sales in September, but because there may be a fall-off in sales in the 4th quarter due to most buyers waiting until February to get all-wheel drive. Very interested in thoughts by others on this possibility.

The performance buyers wanting all-wheel drive and nonperformance buyers not wanting all-wheel drive can get a model S in December, but are there enough of these buyers to meet 4th quarter goals? First quarter of 2015 should be a good one. Will there be a 4th quarter warning during the the call next week?

I am not worried about deliveries in Q4. TM is focusing on delivering the 'D' in the NA market in December. I see a production rate of 1200+/week by the middle of the quarter, exiting the year close to 1,500. With that type of production and minimal shipping delay I could see December as a month where the NA delivery people get very little sleep and deliver close to half (6500) of the vehicles in Q4 in that month alone.
 
I sold may shares in Tesla today, not because of the so called decline in sales in September, but because there may be a fall-off in sales in the 4th quarter due to most buyers waiting until February to get all-wheel drive. Very interested in thoughts by others on this possibility.

The performance buyers wanting all-wheel drive and nonperformance buyers not wanting all-wheel drive can get a model S in December, but are there enough of these buyers to meet 4th quarter goals? First quarter of 2015 should be a good one. Will there be a 4th quarter warning during the the call next week?

Not an issue. If so many people deferred for AWD they would just start delivering them sooner. I agree that they knew they have enough of a wait-list for this to not be a concern.
 
I sold may shares in Tesla today, not because of the so called decline in sales in September, but because there may be a fall-off in sales in the 4th quarter due to most buyers waiting until February to get all-wheel drive. Very interested in thoughts by others on this possibility.

The performance buyers wanting all-wheel drive and nonperformance buyers not wanting all-wheel drive can get a model S in December, but are there enough of these buyers to meet 4th quarter goals? First quarter of 2015 should be a good one. Will there be a 4th quarter warning during the the call next week?



CORRECTION: I realized I basically double counted the way the lag from start of production to delivery helps Tesla with this transition by looking at both ends of the change. Rather than reworking the whole post, the bottom line comes to a little over a 4 week window of production, or ~4,000 orders, that needs to be filled from people on the existing backlog who are content to stick with a rear wheel drive car. That's assuming P85 deliveries begin 12/15. If they start 12/1, roughly 2,000 orders, worst case, if by December deliveries they mean 12/31, a little over 6,000 orders.

I'd guess the Model S backlog was over 10,000. If the wait in China is still 4-6 months, I'd say there's considerably more than a 10,000 order backlog. I wouldn't completely dismiss there being a potential gap of rear wheel drive orders drying up before P85D comes online, but I'm not concerned that there will be a large gap. As Curt well pointed out, this company is about much larger future aspirations than a potential logistical hiccup on the order of about 1,000 cars. fwiw, if this did happen, I would expect them to build those ~1,000 rear wheel vehicles for use as loaners, so possibly something for Wall Street to make some silly noise about, but actual business results wise, pretty much a non issue.

ORIGINAL POST:

I was somewhat concerned about this at the time of the announcement. If you look at the logistics though, I think we are fine. It takes Tesla 2 weeks to build a Model S and IIRC 3-6 weeks to deliver it depending if it's local (North America) or shipped to another continent. The announcement was 10/9. People are locked into their cars when it starts production. So basically, Tesla had people who were locked into their existing orders up through cars starting production 10/9 and rolling off the production line 10/23. So, even if you take the low end of the 3-6 week delivery timeframe, Tesla already had cars locked in place through about 11/14 (adding in 3 weeks delivery time to 10/23). So 11/14 is about where they need orders from their backlog sticking around after the 10/9 announcement.

Coming from the opposite side of the transition, P85D deliveries begin in December, let's say December 15. Again, it takes two weeks to build the cars and a minimum of about 3 weeks to ship. So, if they are looking to deliver P85Ds beginning 12/15, they need to start production of P85Ds 5 weeks earlier, about 11/19.

Putting both sides of this transition together, they just would need about a weeks worth of production (about 1,000 cars) out of their backlog (pretty sure over 10,000) to be happy with an existing rear wheel drive order, and not switch to D to avoid a gap before P85D production starts. So, unless I made a miscalculation, I don't see any Q4 worries from this transition. Of course, how they do from P85D starting in December to 85D and 60D starting in February possibly causing Q1 2015 issues would be another question to look into.
 
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I sold may shares in Tesla today, not because of the so called decline in sales in September, but because there may be a fall-off in sales in the 4th quarter due to most buyers waiting until February to get all-wheel drive. Very interested in thoughts by others on this possibility.

The performance buyers wanting all-wheel drive and nonperformance buyers not wanting all-wheel drive can get a model S in December, but are there enough of these buyers to meet 4th quarter goals? First quarter of 2015 should be a good one. Will there be a 4th quarter warning during the the call next week?

Congratulations on your first post, Doc. Welcome to the Tesla Motors Club.

I'm sorry that you are no longer a fellow shareholder, but you may have been in the wrong type of stock anyway, if your concern is near-term accounting figures. This stock is primarily priced based on expectations for the mass market Model 3 and its battery Gigafactory, as Tesla Motors disrupts the oil and automaker industries and leads the way to an electric car revolution. Evaluating a company's share price based on results or outlooks for nearby quarters is for established companies in stable industries. Meanwhile, there is a large backlog of orders for the Model S, and a long reservation list for the Model X. If there were a reservation list for the Model 3, it would likely be huge.

Unlike the other automakers that sell all they make to their dealerships, with Tesla we have to differentiate among the meanings of sales, orders, deliveries and demand. Orders and demand are strong. Sales and deliveries are constrained by production capacity. Look for production to greatly increase during the coming months and years. The factory is big enough to produce over a dozen times as many cars as are being made this year, and the Gigafactory will supply it with the required number of battery packs. To appreciate this, an investor needs a long-term outlook and a willingness to overlook stock price gyrations.
 
How come you dare to get 1500 exiting number?

I am not worried about deliveries in Q4. TM is focusing on delivering the 'D' in the NA market in December. I see a production rate of 1200+/week by the middle of the quarter, exiting the year close to 1,500. With that type of production and minimal shipping delay I could see December as a month where the NA delivery people get very little sleep and deliver close to half (6500) of the vehicles in Q4 in that month alone.
 
How come you dare to get 1500 exiting number?
Wishful thinking?:wink:

Actually, there were several reports (none from Tesla) from people who took the tour in early-mid September that the weekly production rate was in excess of 1,000. I extrapolated that number to 1,200 by mid Q4, and to 1,500 ending Q4 because that would probably be the numbers they would need to produce enough cars to refill the pipeline and deliver 13,500 cars in Q4. Q4 will lose some work time around Thanksgiving and Christmas, I would assume, leaving at most 12 weeks of production.
 
Wishful thinking?:wink:

Actually, there were several reports (none from Tesla) from people who took the tour in early-mid September that the weekly production rate was in excess of 1,000. I extrapolated that number to 1,200 by mid Q4, and to 1,500 ending Q4 because that would probably be the numbers they would need to produce enough cars to refill the pipeline and deliver 13,500 cars in Q4. Q4 will lose some work time around Thanksgiving and Christmas, I would assume, leaving at most 12 weeks of production.

Ill be very happy if they exit the year with a pace of 1200 per week which is what I think will happen.

Agreed. I am HOPING for 1,500/wk run rate. No one take 1,500/wk as gospel.
 
Wishful thinking?:wink:

Actually, there were several reports (none from Tesla) from people who took the tour in early-mid September that the weekly production rate was in excess of 1,000. I extrapolated that number to 1,200 by mid Q4, and to 1,500 ending Q4 because that would probably be the numbers they would need to produce enough cars to refill the pipeline and deliver 13,500 cars in Q4. Q4 will lose some work time around Thanksgiving and Christmas, I would assume, leaving at most 12 weeks of production.

fwiw, Q4 wont lose a week for Christmas, and may not be impacted by Thanksgiving. When you factor in shipping time, the Christmas week non-production lowers the amount of deliveries in Q1 '15.
 
I am wondering if we'll see market reaction to this on Monday. There are several levels of why this is significant (whether market picks up on this or not is a totally different story...)

  1. Demand generation. As was mentioned by uselesslogin the new leasing (and it is "real" leasing by third company with montly payment hundreds of dollars lower than for a 60 month financing) has potential to significantly broaden Model S addressable market.
  2. Leasing by a third entity (US Bank) means improvement to the top line, because if car is leased through Tesla the income is deferred. If car is leased through US Bank, the full selling price is realized by Tesla at the moment of sales of the car to US Bank, which in turn owns the car and leases it out to a customer.
  3. According to one of the interviews Elon mentioned that the main reason Tesla could not offer true lease is that banks were reluctant to establish residual prices at the end of lease because of lack of history of the secondary market for used Model S cars. The fact that a bank is willing to establish high enough residual value to offer attractive leases, means that Model S is becoming a mainstream luxury car with banks having enough confidence to allow for conventional leasing

Credit Suisse issues note on TSLA, making a point similar to #3 above:
Tesla (Nasdaq: TSLA) is coming off the lows as Credit Suisse analyst Dan Galves is out defending the stock after an earlier Dow Jones report. Shares remain down 4.8%.
Galves noted that, up until now, no financial institution would underwrite a lease on Tesla's Model S sedans due to potential loss of residual value. The analyst thinks that US Bank's move indicates that risk has largely subsided.
Galves wouldn't directly comment on today's September sales reports, only indicating that headlines have been too misleading. The analyst believes that it isn't a surprise that Tesla's U.S. sales would be down with the company recently entering European and Asian countries and working to meet demand in those new markets.
Reports might have indicated to market watchers that the Model S is now selling at a discount, with US Bank being able to cut lease costs by up to 25 percent. That move, again, is associated with less resale risk on the Model S and is not an incentive from the automaker or bank.

http://www.streetinsider.com/Analyst+Comments/Tesla+%28TSLA%29+Being+Defended+at+Credit+Suisse/9944003.html
 
Clearly today was full of FUD and manipulation with "news".

If the goal of hedge funds was to trip tight stop loss limits and lower the share price to buy up at a discount, now that we are at the 200-day Moving Average (closing), I doubt tomorrow would be a Tesla Tuesday because it seems most of that already happened today instead. If it plummets tomorrow, we'd break the 200-day MA support and I think that would make it much harder to rally back up from below it (instead of from here on up from $221.67) and turn a quick profit before / at ER which is one week away.

I'm guessing this is the bottom for now and will trade sideways until ER next week (Wednesday, Nov. 5th @ 5:30pm EST).
 
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