Roadster 3.0

[bonnie]

I see this has been clarified in the past several hours since you posted.
Tesla has confirmed my order for installing the 3.0 battery into my 1.5 Roadster. And the Tesla announcement about the 3.0 battery does not state that it can only be installed in some Roadster versions and not others. So my belief at this point is that the 3.0 battery can be installed in any Roadster.
If it turns out that the 3.0 battery cannot be installed into any of the 500 1.5 Roadsters that were built I will be very unhappy.

Really sorry to confirm the rumor that 1.5s are not included in this upgrade. I reached out to get more info. The answer is not what you (or any of us) want to hear.

Unfortunately the 1.5 is not included in the upgrade. Only 2.0-2.5.

The answer is not what you (or any of us) want to hear. Not good news.

 

[dhrivnak]

Really sorry to confirm the rumor that 1.5s are not included in this upgrade. I reached out to get more info. The answer is not what you (or any of us) want to hear.



The answer is not what you (or any of us) want to hear. Not good news.

Bonnie are you saying there is no battery upgrade for a 1.5 not now or ever? Will Tesla really "brick" their first 500 cars? I hope not as that will be a public relations nightmare. I can live with not being able to apply the 3.0 aero enhancements but to say no battery upgrade turns our cars into unusable museum pieces.

 

[mpt]

Bonnie, are you confident on the source of that quote as its impact is so huge? It seems that the further you are from buying a Model X, and the closer you are to being that person that put a deposit down in blind faith for a car from a company that didn't event exist, the worse off you are.

 

[AEdennis]

Bonnie are you saying there is no battery upgrade for a 1.5 not now or ever? Will Tesla really "brick" their first 500 cars? I hope not as that will be a public relations nightmare. I can live with not being able to apply the 3.0 aero enhancements but to say no battery upgrade turns our cars into unusable museum pieces.

Guys. Not sure if lack of an upgrade = bricking the car.

As a CPO/2d owner of a 1.5 predictability of a replacement 2nd pack at the same kWh and range would be fine if it's priced accordingly. ie if the replacement is close to $10k for restoring an old pack to full capacity, that's fine for me as well. We'll take the S on long trips and continue to have fun with my wife's Roadster.

 

[ecarfan]

While I am stunned and deeply disappointed, let's not get carried away. I am sure that Tesla will continue to offer replacement batteries for the 1.5 Roadster just as they have been for the past 7 years, the replacement battery won't be the 3.0 battery.
That said, I think it is shocking that Tesla could not make the 3.0 battery work on the first 500 Roadsters and also shocking that Tesla chose to not make that clear when the 3.0 battery went on sale on the Tesla website this month.
This page Tesla Accessories and Charging Adapters Roadster 3.0 Battery Upgrade states "Upgrade your Roadster to a battery that stores roughly 40% more energy than the original battery. "
It should say "Upgrade your 2.0/2.5 Roadster to a battery that stores roughly 40% more energy than the original battery (we regret that 1.5 Roadsters cannot be upgraded)."
---------------------

Guys. Not sure if lack of an upgrade = bricking the car.
As a CPO/2d owner of a 1.5 predictability of a replacement 2nd pack at the same kWh and range would be fine if it's priced accordingly. ie if the replacement is close to $10k for restoring an old pack to full capacity, that's fine for me as well.

----------------
I agree. So tomorrow I am going to call the Palo Alto CA Service Center and find out what the cost would be to restore my battery to the range it had when it was new. Currently my standard charge is only 160 and it would be useful to me if it was more like 205 or thereabouts.
And I will save my money for the non-battery parts of the 3.0 upgrade: the aero mods, wheel bearings, brake mods, and new tires.
Oh well. Deeply disappointed.

 

[Sparrow]

I will wait a little while just so all the smoke clears, but I plan on getting rid of my 1.5 if the 3.0 upgrade is not available. This may actually be a relief. Not keeping the Roadster, I will save on the cost of the upgrade, save insurance, save advalorem tax and the new Georgia road tax. I do not plan on getting a 2.0 or 2.5, because I only bought the Roadster because it was the only long range EV available at the time. That is not the case anymore. I admit it is fun to drive, but I have my S and the Roadster is more of a toy to me now anyways.

 

[ecarfan]

I do want Tesla to provide the technical explanation as to why the 1.5 cannot get the battery upgrade. I have read the posts explaining the difference between the 1.5 and 2.0/2.5 batteries, but it's not clear to me why the 3.0 battery does not work in the 1.5.
I think the market value of the 1.5 just dropped by thousands of dollars.

 

[supersnoop]

I think the market value of the 1.5 just dropped by thousands of dollars.

I don't necessarily agree with that. Rather, the upgrade offer could boost the value of all Roadsters. I think the upgrade will be like putting in a pool at your house. You're going to spend $30,000 on it, but it's only going to raise the resale value $10-15k. If upgraded Roadsters hit the market with asking prices higher than that, well, a rising tide lifts all boats.

 

[AEdennis]

I don't necessarily agree with that. Rather, the upgrade offer could boost the value of all Roadsters. I think the upgrade will be like putting in a pool at your house. You're going to spend $30,000 on it, but it's only going to raise the resale value $10-15k. If upgraded Roadsters hit the market with asking prices higher than that, well, a rising tide lifts all boats.

Great analogy

I agree. Roadster prices haven't moved significantly around the announcement time. (With the exception of the one who listed their Sig for $100k [emoji12])

 

[bonnie]

Bonnie are you saying there is no battery upgrade for a 1.5 not now or ever? Will Tesla really "brick" their first 500 cars? I hope not as that will be a public relations nightmare. I can live with not being able to apply the 3.0 aero enhancements but to say no battery upgrade turns our cars into unusable museum pieces.

I'm only saying that the current upgrade is not for 1.5. Nothing more than that.

Bonnie, are you confident on the source of that quote as its impact is so huge?

Very confident.

Guys. Not sure if lack of an upgrade = bricking the car.

As a CPO/2d owner of a 1.5 predictability of a replacement 2nd pack at the same kWh and range would be fine if it's priced accordingly. ie if the replacement is close to $10k for restoring an old pack to full capacity, that's fine for me as well. We'll take the S on long trips and continue to have fun with my wife's Roadster.

Reasonable response.

While I am stunned and deeply disappointed, let's not get carried away. I am sure that Tesla will continue to offer replacement batteries for the 1.5 Roadster just as they have been for the past 7 years, the replacement battery won't be the 3.0 battery.
That said, I think it is shocking that Tesla could not make the 3.0 battery work on the first 500 Roadsters and also shocking that Tesla chose to not make that clear when the 3.0 battery went on sale on the Tesla website this month.
This page Tesla Accessories and Charging Adapters Roadster 3.0 Battery Upgrade states "Upgrade your Roadster to a battery that stores roughly 40% more energy than the original battery. "
It should say "Upgrade your 2.0/2.5 Roadster to a battery that stores roughly 40% more energy than the original battery (we regret that 1.5 Roadsters cannot be upgraded)."
---------------------

Guys. Not sure if lack of an upgrade = bricking the car.
As a CPO/2d owner of a 1.5 predictability of a replacement 2nd pack at the same kWh and range would be fine if it's priced accordingly. ie if the replacement is close to $10k for restoring an old pack to full capacity, that's fine for me as well.

----------------
I agree. So tomorrow I am going to call the Palo Alto CA Service Center and find out what the cost would be to restore my battery to the range it had when it was new. Currently my standard charge is only 160 and it would be useful to me if it was more like 205 or thereabouts.
And I will save my money for the non-battery parts of the 3.0 upgrade: the aero mods, wheel bearings, brake mods, and new tires.
Oh well. Deeply disappointed.

I'd hold off until the dust settles on this one. There may more news coming. (One can hope.) This is only the current situation. (And I'm disappointed, too, even though I have a 2.5.)

 

[ggr]

a) If Bonnie says it, it's almost certainly true. I don't know for sure who she talks to at Tesla, but she can get Roadster charging stations reinstated in a day!

b) Tesla will have a big supply of still-good sheets that can go into a 1.5 battery, if only because of people trading in perfectly good batteries on longer range ones. So I don't think 1.5 owners will be stuck without batteries when they need them.

 

[wiztecy]

b) Tesla will have a big supply of still-good sheets that can go into a 1.5 battery, if only because of people trading in perfectly good batteries on longer range ones. So I don't think 1.5 owners will be stuck without batteries when they need them.

Not really. Time is one factor on how long the life of a cell lasts. The return of old Roadster pack's won't reverse time. Secondly most CAC from packs coming in won't be all that great I'm sure.

Not happy. I hope Tesla is just pushing out the priority if its a larger task to retrofit the new cells, or else this is a pretty bad permutation in many aspects they've just created.

 

[GSP]

I do want Tesla to provide the technical explanation as to why the 1.5 cannot get the battery upgrade. I have read the posts explaining the difference between the 1.5 and 2.0/2.5 batteries, but it's not clear to me why the 3.0 battery does not work in the 1.5.
I think the market value of the 1.5 just dropped by thousands of dollars.

I will speculate that the 3.0 battery only supplies high voltage to the PEM, and cannot provide 12 V to power accessories and instrumentation. If I rember correctly, the 1.5 Roadsters do not have a 12 V lead acid battery, like the 2.0 and later ones do. Instead 12 V is tapped off the high voltage battery.

I hope Tesla provides an explanation, and hopefully an upgrade path.

GSP

 

[ecarfan]

I will speculate that the 3.0 battery only supplies high voltage to the PEM, and cannot provide 12 V to power accessories and instrumentation. If I rember correctly, the 1.5 Roadsters do not have a 12 V lead acid battery, like the 2.0 and later ones do. Instead 12 V is tapped off the high voltage battery.

Thanks, but I did understand that from earlier posts. What puzzles me is that, since Tesla makes clear that the 3.0 batteries are labor intensive and built one at a time, as ordered, why can't they build a 3.0 battery that meets the 1.5's requirements since essentially what they are doing is replacing the cells and using the existing enclosure and sheet arrangement and cabling, as far as I know.
I'm just looking for an explanation.

 

[smac]

b) Tesla will have a big supply of still-good sheets that can go into a 1.5 battery, if only because of people trading in perfectly good batteries on longer range ones. So I don't think 1.5 owners will be stuck without batteries when they need them.

It also depends on how many take the upgrade.

Very anecdotal, but the poll isn't showing a high take-up, with people leaning toward holding off until it's a necessity. (The results also include 2/17 who voted Yes being 1.5 owners.)

As Wiztecy says, the cells will likely be past their best just from age, but also it seems this will be exacerbated because the reason owners will take the upgrade is more likely to be an under performing pack anyway.

Best case there's likely to be a squeeze in supply for the next couple of years.

Certainly will be interesting to see how Tesla deal with the situation.

 

[jimmyz80]

Maybe if we all hold out, they'll sweeten the deal a bit.

 

[smac]

Maybe if we all hold out, they'll sweeten the deal a bit.

You'd be doing them a favor holding out. They are making no money on this

Plus they'd have a perfect get out clause to do a "battery swap station" on you and say uptake wasn't sufficient. They've been clear and said it is not an indefinite offer.

 

[jimmyz80]

Well there goes that idea lol. I'm still not sold at even half the price though honestly.

 

[smac]

Guys. Not sure if lack of an upgrade = bricking the car.

As a CPO/2d owner of a 1.5 predictability of a replacement 2nd pack at the same kWh and range would be fine if it's priced accordingly. ie if the replacement is close to $10k for restoring an old pack to full capacity, that's fine for me as well. We'll take the S on long trips and continue to have fun with my wife's Roadster.

The predictability might be there simply isn't one

I'm not 100% certain but @ 7 years, Tesla are no longer under any legal obligation to offer repairs or replacement. Coincidence 1.5s are all around this age?

gmc - Are automakers required to maintain spare parts infrastructure for 15 years? - Motor Vehicle Maintenance & Repair Stack Exchange


Being in tech, I know how painful it is supporting legacy product. With <0.5% of owners having 1.5s, the PR fall out from this would be negligible. Tesla will just point at the 2.0 upgrade, and say it's not the batteries that are the problem, but something in the design of the first 500 cars. (And they are deeply sorry)

The reality it is just a PITA to fix them now they can't easily get hold of the original cells and how labor intensive it would be to do so if they could, so it's not impossible they'd rather not do it at all and this is a calculated (and very hard nosed) business strategy.

I hope ecarfan and sparrow prove me wrong on this. I really would like a Roadster at some point, but it's the long term viability that is worrying me.

 

[pharma5]

Since Tesla is, ahem, exceptional at clear and accurate communication, this means either:
(a) there's some nuance to it all, e.g., additional work is needed for the upgrade to be released for 1.5's at an unknown later date (note: this is my pure speculation)
OR
(b) not every Roadster is eligible for this thing that has been teased and talked about for well over a year, with no hint of this prerequisite excluding 500 cars / owners

The simpler and less disappointing answer is (a), so I'm going with that for now.

Sorry to hear further confirmation on the ineligibility of 1.5's. Still hoping for something like (a), will post if I hear anything further.

(Reservation page for the 3.0 battery still looks the same).

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks also to Sparrow for bringing this up initially.