Reversing issues in new MYP = accident

[Tessy Sam]

I found this How to access Tesla's service menu on You Tube. The guy talks about recalibrating the cameras etc...

 

[aegidius]

At least the lines turn with the steering, unlike some ICE's I've driven recently

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

Well, in a real bummer, our two-week old MYP has had an unfortunately meeting with a concrete car parking pole during a reverse park into a perpendicular parking spot. The post-accident analysis has brought up a number of issues that contributed to this:

(1) Reversing camera guidelines are off by about 30-50cm. I'd appreciate if others could test this to see if this is "normal" for this vehicle or if mine is just off. Park the car on flat ground, turn the wheel full lock to the left or right. Place an object on the floor just outside of the guidelines a few metres back on the inside corner, in a location where the guidelines say you shouldn't crash into that object. Then reverse without rotating the steering wheel. In my vehicle, the car runs over the object. This was what led to the reversing accident. My previous vehicles (Lexus x 3) were all spot on; you could trust those lines, and I expected the same again. However, the Tesla told me I'd miss the pole, but it was wrong.

(2) Side mirror not recalling correct position on selecting reverse gear. I had set up my left side mirror position to tilt down & inwards to see the side of the car while in reverse, and saved them to my profile. However, on placing the vehicle into reverse, it doesn't recall that position. Instead, it just tilt down, still pointing outwards, so I can't see the left side of the car.

(3) Side cameras are hard to use in an indoor carpark with poor lighting. There's no depth perception as to how far away objects are. Perhaps this becomes easier with time, but right now they are very hard to understand.

(4) Using the accelerator at parking speeds is still not second nature. Previous decades of driving automatic vehicles means I'm used to my foot feathering the brake while parking. In an emergency stop, just push down hard. Now, my foot is on the accelerator during parking manoeuvres. This is fine when everything is calm, but when people in the car suddenly start yelling "stop!" & there's a moment of panic, the reaction was to push down hard momentarily before realising "oops, I'm not on the brake like I'm used to", and then moving to the other pedal, by which time it was too late. I'm sure this will eventually become second nature, but it's not there yet.

Items (1) & (2) are software problems. Especially item (1). That's really bad to be off so far. If you're going to put guidelines, they'd better be accurate. Otherwise, don't put them at all. It's better not to have any at all, than to have wrong ones. Ultimately, it's driver's responsibility, I'm happy to own up to it as a learning experience, & I'm thankful it was a pole & not a person, but trusting the poor camera guidelines alignment definitely contributed to the accident.

I've got a service appointment with Tesla next week & I"ll get them to check this out. And later, the panel beaters to replace the rear bumper & repair/replace the rear quarter panel, & respray the whole lot. In the meantime, can anyone else test (1) & (2) on their vehicles to see if this is "normal" or if mine has a fault?

Tesla should be ashamed that they can't stop the car from hitting something while about to hit something (or someone). Same for the front.

 

[Tigger]

To be honest, I get the sense you are blaming the car for the driver not driving with sufficient care.

Let's assume that was your kid that someone knocked over, giving the same series of explanations. Would you be satisfied? The driver assumed lines and clearances without prior testing, didn't sufficiently check mirrors, and made a pedal control error. I don't get how the car can be blamed for what happened here.

Maybe you an put up a snapshot of what the back camera showed from your crash footage? I think that will be determinative in pointing the blame at the correct party.

 

[Tessy Sam]

I agree with a lot of comments on this thread. Ultimately, the driver is responsible. That's how the insurance co and Tesla will see it.

I am sometimes shocked at how fast some people reverse into parking spots or out of driveways. I have heard of cases where kids have run over and killed by reversing cars especially SUVs and 4x4s.

I honestly can't believe that you didn't see a concrete pillar unless you were totally distracted. A small object or a small kid are harder to see especially if the latter strays into path of the reversing car. All the more reason to be extra vigilant when reversing.

Sorry to hear about the damage to the car. I would be gutted. At least they will fix it good being a Tesla approved repairer and more importantly, nobody was injured.

 

[alliwantisaY]

Like you, I’m pretty much ignoring the lines now. As per my first post, if you draw lines there, they should be correct. It’s better to have no lines than wrong lines. Speed wasn’t an issue in this accident. It was absolutely crawling speed due to poor visibility until my point (4) in the first post, when there was a momentary short lurch. The pole was visible in the central rear mirror but the view appeared to show that the vehicle would miss it. As to why the side mirrors & cameras didn’t see the pole, see the first post.

That's a real shame about your car. Sounds like a few people are thinking you didn't see the pole, but you did, just that the reversing camera showed your tracking as not going to hit it??
With such a small rear window it probably is hard not being able to physically check like you can with some other cars.
I know the reversing camera and guidelines on my Ford Ranger are quite shocking especially if it's not a straight reverse in. If I'm turning to reverse in it will show that I will hit things when in fact I can see that I won't. But I can easily view the fact with side mirrors and rear windows and override the cars judgement.
It would be interesting to do some tests with your car and some witches hats to see if it is out

 

[bcarp]

That's a real shame about your car. Sounds like a few people are thinking you didn't see the pole, but you did, just that the reversing camera showed your tracking as not going to hit it??

That's pretty much it. The central reversing camera showed I wasn't going to hit it. The side reversing camera was useless in the lighting. The mirror was useless because it doesn't recall the saved position (well, caveat… I could have moved my head 50cm to the left to use it but then not been able to see in the central mirror or right mirror, or gone through the menus to reposition it every time I reverse).

Ford Ranger are quite shocking especially if it's not a straight reverse in. If I'm turning to reverse in it will show that I will hit things when in fact I can see that I won't

This is the smart thing to program. My Y does the opposite.

It would be interesting to do some tests with your car and some witches hats to see if it is out

I've tested it, unfortunately after the accident. And my car is definitely out of alignment. I'd appreciate if others could also test in a similar way (see the opening post) to get a feel if this is just my vehicle, or just the way all of these cars are.

I found this How to access Tesla's service menu on You Tube. The guy talks about recalibrating the cameras etc...

That's interesting. I fear now is not the time to do this. I'm going to let Tesla do its diagnostics, confirm the problem & work out a solution. I don't really want my own fingers to add to any confusion here.

At least the lines turn with the steering, unlike some ICE's I've driven recently

In this case, no lines at all would have been better than inaccurate lines.

Ultimately, the driver is responsible. That's how the insurance co and Tesla will see it.

And also how I see it. All the points in your post are acknowledged above.

Maybe you an put up a snapshot of what the back camera showed from your crash footage?

I tried to get the footage when I got home, but it hadn't saved. It was a low speed crash, so I guess it didn't prompt the systems to save it as a critical video clip.

To be honest, I get the sense you are blaming the car for the driver not driving with sufficient care.

Not at all. See my previous posts.

I reckon 10 years ago before my first car with a reversing camera & automatically moving side mirrors, this wouldn't have been an issue. A series of cars with assist technologies has induced a false sense of reliance on these. My incorrect assumption was that if something is shown, it had better been accurate. Otherwise it shouldn't be shown at all. Interestingly, I did a small poll of friends with back-up cameras with reversing lines. Sample size was small (6 people, all Toyota/Lexus). Half said they trust the lines & they are always spot on; the other half said "what lines?" Nobody said "The lines are not where the car ends up."

Is anyone able to test out the reversing lines as per my initial post query? It would be good to know if all Model Ys are like this, or if it's just mine.

 

[Big Dunc]

I cannot test because we have a model S, but....
My wife loves those lines and the camera. When she reverses she just looks at the screen.
She actually reversed into one of our other cars recently, which she is very embarrassed about. Luckily only very minimal paint damage.
I have never looked at the screen when reversing. Turning my head and looking out the rear window and sticking my neck out the drivers window do it fine for me. I do look in the mirrors as well, but often re-adjust them manually as I don't understand how Tesla try and do it. Just my 2 p's worth

 

[aegidius]

I cannot test because we have a model S, but....

Lines seem good on my S. They track where the outside edge of the tyre will go. I never rely on them for close work though - mirrors are your friend.

 

[bcarp]

mirrors are your friend.

If only the mirrors would point in the right direction…

A follow up. Tesla confirmed the failure to recall the reversing location of the mirrors is a software bug and already slated for correction in a future software update. The reversing lines inaccuracy was completely ignored. They just didn’t address the issue at all.

 

[ooky2]

I've had our myp for about a month now and no issues reversing or with the side mirror angling.

You could make a "reverse" profile where it tilts the mirrors as far down as possible I suppose if you're using them to park?

USS performance has been spot on, I park at 30cm distance in the garage and about the same in public car parks.

 

[Snorkalman]

I had the same issue parking in my condo on level-P5. Round concrete pillars are invisible to Tesla cams. TMY gave warnings "unable to calibrate cams".

I'm thinking of getting orange tape for the pillars to "calibrate" the cameras, including the pillars around my parking spot. TMY sees orange traffic cones very easily.

I miss my BMW i3 USS and small turning radius, but love my TMY.

 

[Quickst]

The central reversing camera showed I wasn't going to hit it

As always, I referred to the Tesla owners manual for pardon the pun Guidance.

This is what I found in the Rear Facing Camera section:

 

[Max Spaghetti]

This is what I found in the Rear Facing Camera section:

And yet... the upcoming auto-park feature on non-USS vehicles will get all its information from the cameras...

 

[Quickst]

will get all its information from the cameras...

The disclaimer will still be there

 

[Eeen]

Lots of interesting valid comments. My concerning experience yesterday doesn't give me a lot of faith in Tesla "smarts".
My (12 month old) MYP with USS:
Busy Bunnings carpark.
Started reversing slowly out of parking spot watching side mirrors, rear mirror, screen, lines, other cars, pedestrians etc -all pretty standard eyes flitting everywhere for this situation.
Horns started loudly beeping, I panic stopped to see the LandCruiser directly behind me was also reversing directly into me. No one's fault, thankfully cars on side waiting could see the arising situation and hastily warned/beeped us. I hastily put car in D and went back in (thankfully I still have stalks!)
Surely with all the camera smarts and woppy-dick computer in my car it could sense/see a humongous vehicle backing into me while I'm in reverse moving (?).
(Lady driver of LC happily yapping on hands free phone).
Doesn't instill confidence to move up to FSD....
Also, other than normal reversing into parallel parking spaces or parking in regular spots the Model Y is a joke trying to work out where your wheels/panels are in relation to kerbs & low objects - i.e. look at all the kerb rashes on Y/3 "P's".

Please:
- Bigger mirrors.
- more & accurate USS.
- front low cameras.
- better "car to close surrounding" screen representations.
# Most Japanese/European cars have had all these for decades...

And for those with words of advice to me about driver responsibility, I also drive 2 larger vehicles and the described situation would no-way have happened in those vehicles. Their vision & sensors leave Tesla looking like something from 1950.

 

[JonDarian]

Hi @bcarp,
Sorry to hear about the damage. I definitely took a couple of months to calibrate myself to the cameras lack of depth perception, and just the fact that you are mentally switching between views with different angles and magnifications when looking at the side and rear camera feeds (and also your mirrors). If does get better with time.

I really don't like the terrible rear visibility. I much prefer being able to turn and look out the back window, but that is modern car design, I guess.

I love my side cameras for seeing how close I am to the curb when reverse parallel parking. I also use them to check my alignment with the lines as I reverse into a parking space. I have noticed that my rear camera is out of alignment, but not as much as you are describing. If I trust the guidelines on the camera, I end up parked at a slight angle. Instead, I use the side cameras to check that the sides of the car are parallel with, and evenly spaced between, the car park lines. I definitely couldn't trust my rear camera to get that right.

The USS have been very accurate for distance from flat surfaces, but you are right that they are less reliable on rounded surfaces.

I also like single-pedal driving. You won't take long to adjust, and then will feel like other cars are "running away from you" when you lift your right foot and they don't immediately start coming to a stop. It takes a little while to develop the precision of throttle control needed, but once you do it will feel like you can just order exactly the speed you want any time you want it. The fact the lifting your foot means you are already braking before you even get to the brake pedal is very nice. We have a Kona EV which is permanently in creep mode, and single-pedal driving is one area in which the Tesla does actually outshine the Kona.

Sorry you came unstuck before you had enough time to adjust to the car. There are definitely design issues that contributed to your crash, and I am impressed that your initial post took responsibility for the crash while discussing the contributing issues.

 

[paulp]

As always, I referred to the Tesla owners manual for pardon the pun Guidance.

This is what I found in the Rear Facing Camera section:


View attachment 1035299

I’m wondering how tesla are going to solve all of those issues if autonomous vision is the goal. Seems like they are well aware of the limitations.

 

[Quickst]

how tesla are going to solve all of those issues if autonomous vision is the goal.

Time I suspect. Hype won't be enough

 

[Riasta]

I learnt the hard way when I was in my late teens reversing my old Datto.... I learnt that I didn't have eyes in the back of my head when I reversed into an object and dented my first car. My first prang and it stuck in my head, never forgot that lesson. Since, I am always very careful when reversing. Double check the mirrors and reverse the car like you are reversing a truck!

haha wow same, I had just put on a new refurbished chrome bumper to my Datto and then promptly backed into a short post.
Burnt into my mind.
I suspect Datsuns have taught many a parking lesson over the years