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Public Medium post about unionizing..

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In this case, the SF Bay Area economy is so strong that it has driven housing prices way up in the past two decades. There is no vacant land left to build on, so more high density multi-unit dwellings are being built but they are still very pricey.

Despite your ideological blinders, not everything is about a rapacious government.

Look at NYC.

The average California family has an income of $63k. The average individual who draws a paycheck from the State of California is $93k. Most are unskilled and clerical. Their pension is heavily underfunded, and their union dues fund virtually every campaign in Sacramento. 1% of our families pay 50% of our income tax. Illegals without a SSN, can get an Individual Tax ID and receive thousands of dollars a year in cash with no proof of income.

What is not to like? Waste, greed, lack of ethics, it would make a great mini-series.
 
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It's only a matter of time before PETR (People for the Ethical Treatment of Robots) is formed.

WhizBang Inc of California wanted to improve efficiency. So they called US Robotics (not the modem people). A salesman came over, and sold them 50 robots. Productivity skyrocketed.

The salesman came back later to sell them another 500 robots. The CEO of Whizbang said, "they are too shiny, it blinds people walking through the factory, can you do something on the next batch?"

So the salesman told production that they need non-reflective paint on the robots. The foreman replied that the AQMD will not give them a spray booth permit. Hmmm... thought the salesman. I GOT IT!!!

The salesman located 1,000,000 unused Hillary in 2016 bumper stickers. He trucked them to the plant and the stickers stopped the glare off the 500 robots. They were crated and shipped.

The salesman got a call later in the week...

"Come Get These Stupid Robots!!! I want my money back!!"

"Why? What is wrong?"

"Where to begin? Half of them didn't show up to work the next day, and the rest of them started throwing rocks through windows and setting things on fire!"
 
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Time for Tesla to Listen

I'd be interested in hearing both sides of the story, but if he is representing it fairly, it doesn't reflect well on Tesla's factory environment. My visit there three years ago looked like a factory that took care of their workers, but I haven't been back, and I realize there are areas that the tour doesn't show.
If Jose genuinely wants to open up a public discussion then he should open up the comments on his Medium post, right now it is locked:

"The author has chosen not to show responses on this story. You can still respond by clicking the response bubble."
 
Time for Tesla to Listen

I'd be interested in hearing both sides of the story, but if he is representing it fairly, it doesn't reflect well on Tesla's factory environment. My visit there three years ago looked like a factory that took care of their workers, but I haven't been back, and I realize there are areas that the tour doesn't show.

In any large enough group there are always a certain number of folks who would rather complain than work, and who become bitter that they're not handed the keys to the executive suite when they show up.

This was absolutely inevitable. And I take very little from what the complainant said that really means anything. I do hope that the union doesn't succeed in killing the company. This is the type of thing that will drive a guy like Elon batty.
 
And that trend, of increasing industrial automation, has been ongoing for over a century and continues to accelerate in every industry. It is unstoppable. If a job can be automated and result in decreased costs, it will be. Unions can't stop that trend.
Aaah... Humanity.

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Eternal victim of automation... or laziness...?

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It seems that there are those who wish to achieve the American Dream: the ability to go through life on autopilot. That seems to be the promise of labor unions as well -- that those with 'seniority' work less for higher pay and are least likely to be held accountable.
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Tesla and SpaceX are very straightforward, "Saving the world is not a 9-to-5 job." The positions in the Careers section of their websites very consistently point out, "Must be able to work extended hours and weekends as needed". Accept a job there and you will be working (not lounging) well, and often. Neither Tesla nor SpaceX offer 'kick back' jobs at all.
walle+fat.jpg


That said, I'm rather certain that Spacely's Sprockets was non-union... but probably should have been. The only unions I have observed looking out for employees are those in the entertainment industry. At least they make sure residuals are distributed properly.

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Someone very wise said that, "You get the union you deserve." Treat employees like crap and they will join a union that treats your business like crap. Elon Musk was informed by factory workers what that makes unions necessary is having [ICEHOLES] in management positions. That's why his companies have a 'NO [ICEHOLES]' hiring policy.
 
I would move production to Nevada... California is a tough business state to work in as a manufacturer and I would never allow a union to pollute my business. However I do think they should give the guys performance stock that vests over time and provides them a bonus based on the performance of the business.
I'm certain that for the sake of consistency Tesla will treat all their employees as they would in California, no matter what State they manufacture in.

The UAW has been trying to get back into Fremont since at least 2010. Elon has not barred their attempts and even granted them office space on site.

I would close the doors of my company if my employees chose to unionize. I would see that decision as a failure on my part to provide a proper work environment.

I think that tech companies tend to offer employees a means to acquire vesting shares prior to an IPO. After that point it is typically up to individuals to acquire shares through the open market on their own.

Yes, it would be cool to be awarded a block of shares per quarter or at the end of the fiscal year as part of a compensation package. But those are typically negotiated for high level executive employees during recruitment and are based upon specific goals being reached by that individual or the department they oversee. Not blanket profit sharing arrangements for all employees throughout the whole company.

Even Elon's contract gives him the right/option to PURCHASE stock when specific milestones are reached. He is NOT given stock at no expense.
 
Even Elon's contract gives him the right/option to PURCHASE stock when specific milestones are reached. He is NOT given stock at no expense.
This is a misleading way to phrase it. His milestone options are priced at $31.17. Meeting a milestone gives him the opportunity to buy stock at that price. When the stock is trading at a premium to that (currently ~$270/share), it's very much like being given the delta between those prices.

Understood that he might not sell the stock upon exercising his options, but to imply that he's just allowed to buy some stock is not exactly a transparent argument.
 
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That cancer is pretty bad, 8 hour day, overtime, health insurance, safety, freedom from intimidation and retaliatory firings, seniority etc etc Best be cancer free and subject to the boss'es whims, he knows what's best for you.
Those were concessions won largely 100+ years ago. Since then, most successful companies have figured out that employees perform well despite being treated like crap, not because of it. They have also learned that if you keep your employees happy, they do even better work for you. And those that don't want to deal with a unionized workforce take those lessons to heart to avoid the shackles of unionization. Because unions as they exist today work to foster a confrontational relationship with business management instead of a cooperative one. GM was forced during bankruptcy proceedings by the UAW to close Saturn and NUMMI, the two factory sites where there was cooperation, in order to continue their narrative without opposing evidence to the contrary.
 
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This is a misleading way to phrase it. His milestone options are priced at $31.17. Meeting a milestone gives him the opportunity to buy stock at that price. When the stock is trading at a premium to that (currently ~$270/share), it's very much like being given the delta between those prices.

Understood that he might not sell the stock upon exercising his options, but to imply that he's just allowed to buy some stock is not exactly a transparent argument.
Yes. But that was negotiated when ANALysts on Wall $treet were predicting bankruptcy and outright failure for Tesla 'any day now'. It was a good deal from both sides of the table. He still has to come up with the dough to pay for the shares somehow, if he wants them.

Guys like Cory Johnson and Jim Cramer were incredulous when TSLA was as little as 1/10,000th of BRK·A. They would be much happier to see TSLA at 1/100,000th of BRK·A instead of currently residing at better than 1/1,000th of BRK·A. I expect their heads will explode on television like a scene from 'SCANNERS' (1981) before TSLA reaches 1/100th of BRK·A within the next decade or so.

Tesla has benefitted from having employed a CEO at California minimum wage who is capable of taking the company from the brink of outright failure to a market capitalization in excess of $44,000,000,000. That deserves the compensation as negotiated. Now, shall we check the compensation package for Mary Barra at General Motors for comparison versus performance in the past four years?
 
The Information Age has made unions largely obsolete, if an employer is acting in a truly predacious fashion, everyone will hear about it in short order.

The biggest change was additional bureaucracy and laws concerning labor. The same concerns about working conditions that caused the formation of the unions in America, have now been resolved by laws at both the Federal and State levels.

The only thing left is wages. Elon Musk states the starting pay at Tesla Motors is above average, and previous attempts at unionization have failed like they did at the Japanese plants, due to competitive pay and working conditions, minus the dues and graft.
 
Something to think about.

Why did the UAW wait until after the election to start their national PR campaign to unionize Tesla?

The Obama Administration was always heavily pro-UAW, but made no effort to fight for collective bargaining at Tesla.

It is entirely plausible that a quid pro quo arraignment existed between the previous administration and the UAW. But who was pushing for what? Was it entirely a Green issue, or perhaps a stock market speculation agreement?
 
Ca you share a link or proof that Elon gave UAW office space at the Fremont factory? This sounds like something Elon would not do.

In 2014 the union had a commitee in the factory. Not really sure Elon can prevent a union from coming into a factory. The relationship seemed more amicable back then, though.

Unions press for place with Tesla
 
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The UAW is not like Japanese or German unions.

Right.

Why is it that unions in the USA are (regarded) so different(ly) from f.ex. Western Europe (I know nothing of Japanese unions) ?

A very large fraction of the Western European work force is unionized and few consider that a problem. On the contrary, in some (or several?) countries, the unions are largely regarded as being the sole cause of a very high living standard, with minimum wage, maximum work hours per week, minimum annual vacation, state-backed unemployment insurance, things achieved in the 20th century. Things that cause people to not worry too much about the survival of themselves and their families, so they can be productive at work instead, and fewer have to worry about becoming victim of a robbery from some poor, desperate, unemployed person.

As a possible but surely incomplete part of the answer I would like to point out that the ideologue Karl Marx was very suspicious of unions, since he feared that they would lead the workers to become integrated into the capitalist society, as opposed to overturning it - and it seems that regarding Europe he was right, on that issue.

So what is different in the USA?
 
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In 2014 the union had a commitee in the factory. Not really sure Elon can prevent a union from coming into a factory. The relationship seemed more amicable back then, though.

Unions press for place with Tesla
Thanks for the link. Perhaps this is what @Red Sage was referring to but having a committee is very different than Elon giving UAW office space.
 
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Right.

Why is it that unions in the USA are (regarded) so different(ly) from f.ex. Western Europe (I know nothing of Japanese unions) ?

A very large fraction of the Western European work force is unionized and few consider that a problem. On the contrary, in some (or several?) countries, the unions are largely regarded as being the sole cause of a very high living standard, with minimum wage, maximum work hours per week, minimum annual vacation, state-backed unemployment insurance, things achieved in the 20th century. Things that cause people to not worry too much about the survival of themselves and their families, so they can be productive at work instead, and fewer have to worry about becoming victim of a robbery from some poor, desperate, unemployed person.

As a possible but surely incomplete part of the answer I would like to point out that the ideologue Karl Marx was very suspicious of unions, since he feared that they would lead the workers to become integrated into the capitalist society, as opposed to overturning it - and it seems that regarding Europe he was right, on that issue.

So what is different in the USA?

1) US Unions have been known to have ties to organized crime. They have been known to defraud their membership, or bargain in bad faith for money. Stealing pension money is a favorite hobby.

2) US Unions are often primarily political institutions. Union dues are used to finance campaigns, even if it costs union members their jobs. This happened to me while a member of UAW.

3) The US now has strict labor laws.

4) Many of the best paying jobs are non-Union if you are skilled labor. I left the UAW for better pay and benefits.

5) A janitor can make more money than a journeyman machinist or an engineer. This is because most our unions are not trade unions. Since unskilled labor comprise most the union members, they have the most pull when it comes to wages and overtime. Example, when I was UAW at the highest job classification (R&D Technician, Senior), I made 20% more per hour than a janitor. I was required to have years of experience and thousands of dollars of tools. Since the janitors received far more overtime than laboratory technicians, many had higher incomes.

6) Pay is based purely on seniority as well as promotions. If you work extra hard and are very talented, you stay at the bottom no matter how hard you work.

And I could go on.