Please help shape the future of charging infrastructure

[akouri]

I am working on a project to add more level 3 NACS charging stations in Texas as part of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill.

Eventually we will expand to the rest of the country, but we're trying to understand more about the charging behavior of most Tesla drivers: What people like, don't like, want changed, etc.

You can help us build more chargers by sharing your opinions on this survey. The survey should take about 4-5 minutes. I will share summarized data once they survey closes.

Mods: If this isn't allowed for some reason, please let me know. There is no personal information collected as part of the survey, and it's not for marketing.

 

[akouri]

Thanks to those who have submitted answers so far. I have 8 responses. Once I get to 100 I will share the summarized findings!

 

[houstonian]

Thanks - just completed.

FWIW high mileage driver (~5k/month) with free supercharging so cost is not really a factor.

Amenities are a big driver for myself and I will modify behavior, within reason, to take advantage of SC'ers with solid choices when possible.

Also of note - and perhaps you'll want to add this to your survey - is I often will charge to 100% when on long distance travel vs. 'just enough' to get to the next supercharger. For me, at a V3 SC, to go from ~5% → 100% this means I'll be onsite for ~1h, 5m give or take...hence I've got about an hour to wander around and patronize local businesses, restaurants, and coffee shops. Vastly prefer this when doing long drivers as I can stretch my legs and take a break from driving. Also why amenities are a large draw as I'll have a good chunk of time to peruse the local area.

When I'm not on long distance travel I will often charge for ~15m or so until I get to ~53%, just enough time for a coffee or to run into a grocery store, but this is often when I'm close to home or at my assignment and not doing long distance drives.

Finally I generally have a Stowaway attached (see my other posts for pics) meaning backing into a SCer is cumbersome. Big fan of bays where I can pull in or pull along side. Small detail but designing SCers where at least a few of the bays can accommodate those with trailers or hitch accessories is a MASSIVE draw over other SC locations without this feature for those who make frequent use of their hitch.

 

[israndy]

Survey failed to load a page and when I refreshed it took me back to the beginning so I bailed

 

[ucmndd]

Survey failed to load a page and when I refreshed it took me back to the beginning so I bailed

Same. I was using iOS - looked like a page that was supposed to load a slider or something for me to register a response, but didn't. Refresh went back to the beginning and starting over just to get back to the same place wasn't in the cards.

 

[APotatoGod]

Same issue as the others (also on iOS), around halfway through the survey there was a question that didn't seem to have any input options, I tried disabling my content blockers (ad blocker, etc), and that reloaded the page and kicked me back to the beginning of the survey.

 

[ChadS]

I had no issues using Chrome on Windows.

 

[RayK]

Submitted my responses on Friday (7/21). FWIW, 2018 LR RWD low-mileage (5K / yr) owner who doesn't have home charging by choice. I use a CHAdeMO adapter at a local ChargePoint station which has cheaper than home electricity costs (CP: $0.19/kWh 24/7/365 vs. PG&E: $0.35 winter off-peak and $0.53 summer peak). Occasional use of an Urban Supercharger. That SC is located next to a store (Outdoor Supply Hardware) and a mini-mall so I can do some shopping while charging but most of the time I'm sitting in my car for up to an hour. There's a Starbucks and Taco Bell close by. I wouldn't walk to those places; I do drive to them after charging to get my food. Food / shopping locations aren't too important to me when I'm traveling. What I much prefer is that wherever I charge on the road has bathroom facilities nearby. On long trips I use ABRP to initially plan the route and the car's navigation to confirm my choices.

As for costs involved with charging, I don't think that I'd ever subscribe to a monthly / yearly plan for discounted charging as I don't drive that much now and I still have a source of cheap electrons. If / when that option goes away then I'll do the cost analysis of SC usage vs. finally installing my 5 year old Wall Connector in my garage and see what makes sense. I had planned on using the free charging at work when I got my car (July 2018). That lasted a year until I was retired. Just before that happened, when Tesla finally released software with Model 3 CHAdeMO support, I bought the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter. Work had a couple of DCFC stations with CHAdeMO adapters cabled to them but I didn't want to depend on those adapters so I decided to get my own. It's one of the reasons why I'm still using it. I have to amortize the $500 I spent for the adapter. The adapter has been useful on a couple of my long distance trips as the places I went had free CCS/CHAdeMO stations. I have had all the parts needed to upgrade my charge port to accept CCS charging for about a year but that now seems not as important with NACS being adopted by some EVSE providers (so they say). I will eventually install all of the pieces for CCS support as it can't hurt to have more charging choices. There are CCS/CHAdeMO stations located in places where there's still no SCs around.

I did the survey using Firefox on Windows 7 with my laptop. No issues with completing the form.

 

[ThomasD]

Long wide pull through stalls for when towing trailers. Charging stations within a mile of Interstates. More charging stations on two lane highways in rural areas. Maybe locate them at restaurants and gas stations in rural areas.

 

[akouri]

Also of note - and perhaps you'll want to add this to your survey - is I often will charge to 100% when on long distance travel vs. 'just enough' to get to the next supercharger. For me, at a V3 SC, to go from ~5% → 100% this means I'll be onsite for ~1h, 5m give or take...hence I've got about an hour to wander around and patronize local businesses, restaurants, and coffee shops. Vastly prefer this when doing long drivers as I can stretch my legs and take a break from driving. Also why amenities are a large draw as I'll have a good chunk of time to peruse the local area.

Do you have a LFP battery, is that another reason why you prefer doing this? Does it help with the calibration?

 

[akouri]

Same. I was using iOS - looked like a page that was supposed to load a slider or something for me to register a response, but didn't. Refresh went back to the beginning and starting over just to get back to the same place wasn't in the cards.

Aww shoot. I'm sorry about this. Thanks for trying. FWIW your responses up to that point were recorded. I've forwarded your feedback to the Formbricks developer, who has been pretty responsive and fixed issues within the day.

 

[threeputts]

The questions about choosing alternate superchargers based on price/amenities isn't really answerable. Too many variables there, especially how much further to the alternate site. Even then the answer will vary depending on if I'm I ready to stop for food, what exactly is available, or if I want to keep a timeline for arrival at my destination.

 

[houstonian]

Do you have a LFP battery,

Do not know. 2023 X LR.

is that another reason why you prefer doing this?

Yes; I prefer fewer stops even if I have to charge longer in terms of total time.

Does it help with the calibration?

Uncertian.

 

[TunaBug]

I just completed the survey.

I'm curious if you look for correlations between results, or just take simple averages. For example, I almost always charge at home, and I said I would not install an app to get a 15% discount on supercharging. But the latter might be only because I rarely use a supercharger. Will your result analysis find that people using superchargers have different preferences for saving money at a supercharger than people who use it rarely?

 

[gtae07]

Right now the "alternative charger" option while traveling seems to be "stop at SC A with 50%" or "stop at SC B 50 miles down the road with 20%". There's no option of "this one is busy so I'll just go to that other one a couple minutes away". Having alternates, even if they're at the same exit, would be nice.

Some other suggestions...

Reliability is paramount. Location, amenities, and features are useless if I can't charge; the reliability of the SC network is why I went to an EV at all. It drives me nuts when gas stations have multiple pumps OOS or the card reader is messed up; at a charger with no local alternative (and maybe no other chargers in range at all) that would be unbearable.

The amenities matter to the overall experience (and eventually, will drive usage once more alternatives are available). The SC right near my house is a great location (though I never use it) being near several restaurants and at a good local gas station chain with clean bathrooms and surprisingly decent food. Note: amenities that would require crossing major multi-lane busy roads on foot don't really count--for example the Macon and Dublin (Georgia) chargers would really benefit from being on the other side of the street as the food choices are better.

Not only should the parking not be tight or confusing (looking at you, Parker's in Metter) but there should be at least a couple of pull through/trailer friendly stalls. "Normal" stalls should leave room for bike racks or hitch carriers.

It's time to start building out charging along more state highways, not just interstates. Yeah, start with the interstates, but the smaller roads go more places and offer more interesting drives. And folks outside majore metro areas will be more likely to buy in if they see they're being supported.

We (and many other places) could use some L3 chargers, even lower end 50kW ish, in town for the cases of "I need a bit of margin to get back home". I have to plan carefully and leave plenty of margin heading into Savannah because the only superchargers in the area are basically right near my home, so they do me no good when I'm out. Could also use a bunch of these in smaller towns etc so visitors have somewhere they can charge.

Public L2 charging is rare and takes forever, and often not conveniently located. For example, where my in-laws and parents live all but one of the public L2s is at some random business (like an insurance company or a small factory) off on a side street somewhere well away from anything else. How does that benefit anyone but employees? Public L2 should be for places where people will be parking for hours/overnight, not for quick shopping trips.

I don't "shop around" for charger prices, mostly because there aren't really alternatives. Eight V3 superchargers vs. a single 62kW CCS that's broken half the time? No comparison.

It sure would be nice though if Tesla had "minimum battery level" settings for the navigation like ABRP...

 

[TunaBug]

Right now the "alternative charger" option while traveling seems to be "stop at SC A with 50%" or "stop at SC B 50 miles down the road with 20%". There's no option of "this one is busy so I'll just go to that other one a couple minutes away". Having alternates, even if they're at the same exit, would be nice.

Some other suggestions...

Reliability is paramount. Location, amenities, and features are useless if I can't charge; the reliability of the SC network is why I went to an EV at all. It drives me nuts when gas stations have multiple pumps OOS or the card reader is messed up; at a charger with no local alternative (and maybe no other chargers in range at all) that would be unbearable.

The amenities matter to the overall experience (and eventually, will drive usage once more alternatives are available). The SC right near my house is a great location (though I never use it) being near several restaurants and at a good local gas station chain with clean bathrooms and surprisingly decent food. Note: amenities that would require crossing major multi-lane busy roads on foot don't really count--for example the Macon and Dublin (Georgia) chargers would really benefit from being on the other side of the street as the food choices are better.

Not only should the parking not be tight or confusing (looking at you, Parker's in Metter) but there should be at least a couple of pull through/trailer friendly stalls. "Normal" stalls should leave room for bike racks or hitch carriers.

It's time to start building out charging along more state highways, not just interstates. Yeah, start with the interstates, but the smaller roads go more places and offer more interesting drives. And folks outside majore metro areas will be more likely to buy in if they see they're being supported.

We (and many other places) could use some L3 chargers, even lower end 50kW ish, in town for the cases of "I need a bit of margin to get back home". I have to plan carefully and leave plenty of margin heading into Savannah because the only superchargers in the area are basically right near my home, so they do me no good when I'm out. Could also use a bunch of these in smaller towns etc so visitors have somewhere they can charge.

Public L2 charging is rare and takes forever, and often not conveniently located. For example, where my in-laws and parents live all but one of the public L2s is at some random business (like an insurance company or a small factory) off on a side street somewhere well away from anything else. How does that benefit anyone but employees? Public L2 should be for places where people will be parking for hours/overnight, not for quick shopping trips.

I don't "shop around" for charger prices, mostly because there aren't really alternatives. Eight V3 superchargers vs. a single 62kW CCS that's broken half the time? No comparison.

It sure would be nice though if Tesla had "minimum battery level" settings for the navigation like ABRP...

I would summarize that as... This survey is specific to Tesla Superchargers. It makes assumptions about quality that would cause the questions to be irrelevant if you tried to infer things about what I expect from, say, EA.

 

[akouri]

I just completed the survey.

I'm curious if you look for correlations between results, or just take simple averages. For example, I almost always charge at home, and I said I would not install an app to get a 15% discount on supercharging. But the latter might be only because I rarely use a supercharger. Will your result analysis find that people using superchargers have different preferences for saving money at a supercharger than people who use it rarely?

Thanks for taking the survey. I am not really looking at the data as a whole and then taking averages because like you said there are nuances to consider. Instead I'm reading each response individually as it comes in and forming a picture as to whether or not this user adds to or detracts from my likely ideal user profile.

I don't "shop around" for charger prices, mostly because there aren't really alternatives. Eight V3 superchargers vs. a single 62kW CCS that's broken half the time? No comparison.

Exactly this. Most 3rd party chargers are broken and the experience isn't even worth driving off the highway for, unless you're truly desperate.

 

[akouri]

I have about 25 responses in so far. Here's what I'm hearing:

- Lots of people have free supercharging. For them, price obviously isn't a consideration.
- Make sure to include plenty of space for trailer hitches, pull thru spaces
- Bimodal distribution on people's satisfaction with the food and retail options near chargers. Some people are quite satisfied, and some are very dissatisfied. More data needed here.
- Very few users use chargers outside of their home charger and Tesla's superchargers.
- More stations always better --> lack of density on state routes.
- There seems to be a desire for a Level 2.5 (60kW-ish) DC charger


To add more details on what I'm trying to understand, and maybe just responding here is helpful too:

1. What are the worst parts about the supercharger experience? What do you do now to deal with these setbacks/hassles?
2. Would you go out of your way to have an experience like this? This is a good idea of what the future of charging might look like, but also probably way too costly to support without some massive grant. Would a membership make sense if you could have a charging experience like that?
   1. If you didn't watch the whole video, here's the tl;dw: 100 DC fast charging stations with a cafe inside and a pleasant stop experience.
   2. Do you think this would work in the US? Or would people trash it?

 

[RayK]

- Very few users use chargers outside of their home charger and Tesla's superchargers.
- There seems to be a desire for a Level 2.5 (60kW-ish) DC charger

That sounds exactly like me. I've been CHAdeMO charging (~45kW) for the last 3 years about 95% of the time around home. SC the rest of the time and on long trips. May have L2 charged 1 or 2 times in that period. Currently my estimated 100% range is 300 miles (2018 LR RWD; original capacity was 310-315 miles) so I don't think I've been putting too much strain on the battery with my L2.5 charges.

Would you go out of your way to have an experience like this? This is a good idea of what the future of charging might look like, but also probably way too costly to support without some massive grant. Would a membership make sense if you could have a charging experience like that?

The closest experience I've had to the video you linked to is the SC lounge at Kettleman City, CA when I took a trip to SoCal several years ago. Plenty of chargers and room. Spot to walk Spot. Lounge access required typing in a code at the door that you get from the car's screen. Vending machines available when the baristas were not there. Wish there were more places like this up and down the I-5 corridor and also I-80 towards Reno. If the only "membership" fee is being a Tesla owner then I'm all for it.

 

[gtae07]

- There seems to be a desire for a Level 2.5 (60kW-ish) DC charger

For certain applications at least. On travel routes, no (we would want the full L3 250kW plus), but if you could implement them cheaply compared to full L3 the L2.5 would be a lot better for chargers at grocery stores, small attractions, etc. Places where people would typically be there for 20-60 minutes and you could get a meaningful charge in that time. A 6kW L2 (like so many public chargers around here) is practically useless unless I'm parking there for several hours or overnight.


As for the average stop, I don't really care for the dedicated lounge experience. I'd be looking for something like at least one edible fast food option and something else (coffee?), something with clean bathrooms, and not a long walk all the way across the parking lot.