HighPotential
Member
FWIW, the one time I used the classic PS4 (non-Tesla spec) 21" Michelins, they did NOT come apart and lasted 16,000 miles. Coincidence? Not sure.
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Plaid 21” rear tire woes - factory defect?
- Thread starter KOL2000
- Start date
I sit 45 mins from home waiting on AAA because telsa cant get to it until the morning.. same situation. 15,329 miles and even wear but full separation. This seems to be a tire failure for sure.
21” on MS plaid 2023
It's definitely a tire failure, but due to a bad alignment and not because of a tire defect.
Yes, please submit photographs AND file a warranty claim with Michelin (Discount Tire is a pretty good supplier for replacement OEM tires BTW).
KEEP your old tires for your claim as you may need them for Michelin! (Michelin's website has a link where you can file your claim.)
Also, please submit a quick report here--every one of them will help get these junk tires off the road:
Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA
File a complaint with NHTSA if you experienced a vehicle, tire, car seat or equipment safety problem that could be a safety defect.
Sweed269
Member
When you launch you are compressing the rear and adding -2ish degrees of additional camber. If you start with over -2 then combined with the stiff short sidewalls you gat crazy tire wear. The toe also changes but I'm not sure if it is in or out during compression. Whatever direction it is you should set it to the other end of the factory spec so it's near zero during a launch or hard cornering.
Could the inner eage be rubbing on something?
Could the inner eage be rubbing on something?
For the 59th time, the SIDEWALL tears away from the tread, eventually leading to a nearly impossible to notice pending tire failure with ONLY the OEM 21” Michelin tire mounted on the Plaid MS…and NOT the 19” OEM Pirelli tire.
It is NOT a wear issue.
And, NO, the inner sidewall is NOT rubbing against anything for those that are wondering why the inner sidewall often looks like it's been in a lathe. It's likely just an artifact of the tire's internal destruction, which now two+ years later Michelin appears to STILL not care about. Mind blowing. I guess no one at Micheline knows about this fiasco?
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No. When I switched to the 305 NF0 Pirelli rears I chalked them to check this. The Pirellis are close to 1" wider than the OEM PS4S. The PS4S is on the bottom and NF0 Pirelli on top for comparison. If these don't rub, there is absolutely no way the PS4S are.
Yes, and if there was something in the wheel well in contact with the tire it would quite shiny and bright.
n2mb_racing
Active Member
That's a lot of meat! They fit on the OEM 21" rims? And don't delaminate the way the Michelins do?
Yes, they fit the oem wheels. This is how they look on one of my sets of wheels, these are OEM spec - 10.5x21 45et They fill it in to the perfect size.
I did have tire wear problems with my first set of factory tires, but then put camber arms on and had an alignment, and zero issues now for 40k miles.
HollywoodCole
Member
My S is not a plaid but I have the same issue. I switched tire brands to BFG last time and it does not appear to be Michelin related. I down sized to 20"s to help some but it had the opposite effect because they are 10.5" wide with wider tires, which I think exacerbated the alignment issues by putting the edge even farther from center. Can anyone help look at my tire wear photo and confirm this is due to toe/camber? It seems to be pretty obviously to me but I admittedly know nothing about diagnosis of alignment issues. Just looks like the tire is clearly making more contact on the inside, maybe even feathering inward due to excessive toe? Would 19s with OEM tires negate this?
Yes, I would say that ut is a toe/camber issue.
The combination toe out + high negative camber is not good.
I think that it would be possible to avoid the marked issue by adjusting toe only:
Wear on the side wall and around the corner is most probably caused by the tyre trying to move outwards due to the toe out, presenting the inner wall to the ground but scratching instead of rolling in a clean way.
Adjustment of toe to appropriate toe in will probably solve that (marked) issue, so the tyre does not get destroyed.
But the issue of uneven wear will most probably still be there (more or less depending on how much toe in is set).
We can see that the inner corner has lost the thread after only a few mounths since the car was new.
It also a clearly visible color shift on the outer ~ quarter which I think comes from that part not really touching the ground. It was the exact same on both sides.
As the inner corner already had worn it is hard to see direct with these 21” if that part stopped after the wheel alignment.
The 20” with low rolling resistance I did get about one week ago shows both even coloration and no strange wear in the inner corner. Only 8-900km yet, but will follow this up and post here.
If needed, I will get a kit that reduces the negative camber.
canasion35
Active Member
Looks like it’s happening to more than just the “faulty” PS4S…which we all knew since the underlying issue is the crappy alignment and lack of camber adjustability...right? Had to get my little snarky comment in there. Joking aside -
I do hope others read this…to fix the issues of the inner tire wear (for any tire on this car), get adjustable camber arms and get the alignment done to maximize tire wear (small amount of toe and close to -1.0 camber in the rear)
The same issues existed with all the previous gen model S’ and it’s the same here. I know this because I have an early gen model S and went through these woes for years until I finally got the camber arms and it fixed all these issues.
I do hope others read this…to fix the issues of the inner tire wear (for any tire on this car), get adjustable camber arms and get the alignment done to maximize tire wear (small amount of toe and close to -1.0 camber in the rear)
The same issues existed with all the previous gen model S’ and it’s the same here. I know this because I have an early gen model S and went through these woes for years until I finally got the camber arms and it fixed all these issues.
Propofoln
Member
truly amazing after all this time Tesla has not fixed this issue that's widespread
Yes, not really able to understand that didn't.
A very young manufacturer could easily f**k this up at the first or second model, like they did.
> 10 years later and a few updates later and still be there doesnt really make sense.
just want to jump in here. This is obviously a Tesla issue and absolutely positively not a Michelin issue. And, this kind of stuff is why I still haven’t purchased a Plaid S. WtF Tesla?!?
Camber, Toe AND tire pressure all matter. The car is very sensitive. This happens when you have a commoditized >1000HP >2-ton car.
Someone else raised the fact that geometry changes under load, which is bang-on-point. So yeah, your results may vary depending on how you drive, and the condition of your suspension (bushes).
Camber arms can help a bit, but will give something up elsewhere (handling) and also don't address toe migration. Might be enough to help some folks though.
FWIW, I have a 2022 dual motor (not Plaid) on 21's with factory Michelins. 12k miles, and tire wear is perfect. I RELIGOUSLY check tire pressures and alignment. And I beat the $#!t out of it everyday. No issues. I do expect to change (evenly worn) tires every 15-20,000 miles though. That's part of what I bought into. I'm not gonna cry about it.
It's easy to blame Tesla. But you all drive 1000HP hi-perf EVs that have almost 400 miles of range. These performance objectives are insanely demanding on suspension design of ANY car. They ALL conflict one-another. If you don't like it, go try a Panamera Turbo (if you wanna go fast) or a Kia Nero (if you're in no hurry and want good tire wear). Neither will have these problems, but they might have a few others of their own.
One final point - alignments are difficult to do well and largely overlooked by owners & mechanics alike. If you have problems, I'd suggest finding a reputable, good wheel alignment specialist, preferably with some motorsports credibility (I know, not easy). It's a hassle, but cold make all the difference. Contrary to common excuses, you can easily find the Model S alignment spec and this can be used by ANY good alignment machine. It need not be Tesla-operated. But the details really do matter, in the process, and attention to detail (Correct vehicle level, correct loading, etc, etc.). Just because you get handed a green print-out alignment result doesn't mean much. If all these points are properly accounted for, there shouldn't be much issue, and there are cars out there (maybe not many?) that do behave right.
Good luck!
Someone else raised the fact that geometry changes under load, which is bang-on-point. So yeah, your results may vary depending on how you drive, and the condition of your suspension (bushes).
Camber arms can help a bit, but will give something up elsewhere (handling) and also don't address toe migration. Might be enough to help some folks though.
FWIW, I have a 2022 dual motor (not Plaid) on 21's with factory Michelins. 12k miles, and tire wear is perfect. I RELIGOUSLY check tire pressures and alignment. And I beat the $#!t out of it everyday. No issues. I do expect to change (evenly worn) tires every 15-20,000 miles though. That's part of what I bought into. I'm not gonna cry about it.
It's easy to blame Tesla. But you all drive 1000HP hi-perf EVs that have almost 400 miles of range. These performance objectives are insanely demanding on suspension design of ANY car. They ALL conflict one-another. If you don't like it, go try a Panamera Turbo (if you wanna go fast) or a Kia Nero (if you're in no hurry and want good tire wear). Neither will have these problems, but they might have a few others of their own.
One final point - alignments are difficult to do well and largely overlooked by owners & mechanics alike. If you have problems, I'd suggest finding a reputable, good wheel alignment specialist, preferably with some motorsports credibility (I know, not easy). It's a hassle, but cold make all the difference. Contrary to common excuses, you can easily find the Model S alignment spec and this can be used by ANY good alignment machine. It need not be Tesla-operated. But the details really do matter, in the process, and attention to detail (Correct vehicle level, correct loading, etc, etc.). Just because you get handed a green print-out alignment result doesn't mean much. If all these points are properly accounted for, there shouldn't be much issue, and there are cars out there (maybe not many?) that do behave right.
Good luck!
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