Plaid 21” rear tire woes - factory defect?

[HighPotential]

It's not a Plaid issue. It's a geometry issue exacerbated by power numbers. Jeebus krist. That's what it is.

 

[bkcyk]

Camber, Toe AND tire pressure all matter. The car is very sensitive. This happens when you have a commoditized >1000HP >2-ton car.
Someone else raised the fact that geometry changes under load, which is bang-on-point. So yeah, your results may vary depending on how you drive, and the condition of your suspension (bushes).

Camber arms can help a bit, but will give something up elsewhere (handling) and also don't address toe migration. Might be enough to help some folks though.

FWIW, I have a 2022 dual motor (not Plaid) on 21's with factory Michelins. 12k miles, and tire wear is perfect. I RELIGOUSLY check tire pressures and alignment. And I beat the $#!t out of it everyday. No issues. I do expect to change (evenly worn) tires every 15-20,000 miles though. That's part of what I bought into. I'm not gonna cry about it.

It's easy to blame Tesla. But you all drive 1000HP hi-perf EVs that have almost 400 miles of range. These performance objectives are insanely demanding on suspension design of ANY car. They ALL conflict one-another. If you don't like it, go try a Panamera Turbo (if you wanna go fast) or a Kia Nero (if you're in no hurry and want good tire wear). Neither will have these problems, but they might have a few others of their own.

One final point - alignments are difficult to do well and largely overlooked by owners & mechanics alike. If you have problems, I'd suggest finding a reputable, good wheel alignment specialist, preferably with some motorsports credibility (I know, not easy). It's a hassle, but cold make all the difference. Contrary to common excuses, you can easily find the Model S alignment spec and this can be used by ANY good alignment machine. It need not be Tesla-operated. But the details really do matter, in the process, and attention to detail (Correct vehicle level, correct loading, etc, etc.). Just because you get handed a green print-out alignment result doesn't mean much. If all these points are properly accounted for, there shouldn't be much issue, and there are cars out there (maybe not many?) that do behave right.

Good luck!

Post your alignment sheet here dude

 

[cptnslo]

It's not a Plaid issue. It's a geometry issue exacerbated by power numbers. Jeebus krist. That's what it is.

I mean aren’t the LR with 21s still seeing the issue also

 

[HollywoodCole]

I mean aren’t the LR with 21s still seeing the issue also

Yes. Any S with 21s from what I've seen. I sized down to 20s to help but went with a wider wheel (10.5) which apparently cancelled out the helpful effect of a fatter/more flexible tire, because the wider tire is still concentrated on that one spot... which is worse because it's even farther away from the "fulcrum" of the angle cause by the camber. Then the toe just grinds that edge away from what it sounds like here.

 

[canasion35]

My 2014 S with 21’s saw this issue too until I got an alignment to pretty much have .1 toe-in, and on stock arms the camber was still out of whack at -3.1 degrees. This helped the tire wear (I think) some but hard to tell since the tires were wearing like crap already and the tires will continually wear like that until they go.

When those tires wore out (8k miles on conti’s SC6) I put in the camber arms, drove the alignment shop and got -1.0 negative camber in the rear and .1 degrees toe-in F/R and got the hankook ion evo tires. 7k miles in and they are wearing perfectly even.

 

[lbowroom]

My 2014 S with 21’s saw this issue too until I got an alignment to pretty much have .1 toe-in, and on stock arms the camber was still out of whack at -3.1 degrees. This helped the tire wear (I think) some but hard to tell since the tires were wearing like crap already and the tires will continually wear like that until they go.

When those tires wore out (8k miles on conti’s SC6) I put in the camber arms, drove the alignment shop and got -1.0 negative camber in the rear and .1 degrees toe-in F/R and got the hankook ion evo tires. 7k miles in and they are wearing perfectly even.

Different suspension, different problems

 

[HollywoodCole]

My 2014 S with 21’s saw this issue too until I got an alignment to pretty much have .1 toe-in, and on stock arms the camber was still out of whack at -3.1 degrees. This helped the tire wear (I think) some but hard to tell since the tires were wearing like crap already and the tires will continually wear like that until they go.

When those tires wore out (8k miles on conti’s SC6) I put in the camber arms, drove the alignment shop and got -1.0 negative camber in the rear and .1 degrees toe-in F/R and got the hankook ion evo tires. 7k miles in and they are wearing perfectly even.

I want to get camber and toe arms but they are super expensive for what they are. I'd still get them to save my tires but I am also worried about needing suspension work and Tesla blaming it on my camber arms / refusing to work on it. I read in one thread they told a guy they would reinstall factory arms for like $700 and then start to diagnose his actual issue.

 

[canasion35]

I want to get camber and toe arms but they are super expensive for what they are. I'd still get them to save my tires but I am also worried about needing suspension work and Tesla blaming it on my camber arms / refusing to work on it. I read in one thread they told a guy they would reinstall factory arms for like $700 and then start to diagnose his actual issue.

I got the hardrace ones for my older model s for $200 and did the install myself. Same for the model 3 except that has full KW V3 and MPP arms…been in for a warranty replacement rear motor for the S and they’ve said nothing about them.

Went in for a replacement wheel bearing on the model 3 and they said nothing about the full aftermarket Coilovers and control arms. A lot of the folks don’t have the “needs to be stock” issue at the SC but I suppose some do.

 

[canasion35]

Different suspension, different problems

What makes you say that? The camber arms were an issue then (excessive negative camber with no adjustment) and it seems to be the issue now with the solution being, camber arms and an alignment.

I’m no expert in the design chances year to year suspension wise on the Model S but I am fascinated by suspension and alignments for vehicle performance!

 

[sorka]

I want to get camber and toe arms but they are super expensive for what they are. I'd still get them to save my tires but I am also worried about needing suspension work and Tesla blaming it on my camber arms / refusing to work on it. I read in one thread they told a guy they would reinstall factory arms for like $700 and then start to diagnose his actual issue.

$700 for an hours worth of work (not including alignment). Wow!

 

[TSLA Pilot]

just want to jump in here. This is obviously a Tesla issue and absolutely positively not a Michelin issue. And, this kind of stuff is why I still haven’t purchased a Plaid S. WtF Tesla?!?

Wow, a sample size of "ONE" with an unknown wheel/tire combination (BUT NOT AN OEM combination), and there are literally tens of thousands of Plaids since 2021 with 19" wheels with next to zero issues.

So "absolutely positively not a Michelin issue" is a pretty huge jump, no?

Not much scientific method there folks . . . .

It remains very likely a "Michelin issue" since it's so prevalent among the 21" Michelin fleet, and so far beyond rare in the 19" Pirelli fleet.

For those with the 21" Michelins, be SURE to file a formal complaint via their website and you'll get a new set of tires from them, AND create another data point to help get these janky tires off the road, hopefully BEFORE someone gets hurt.

Michelin Warranty Information | Michelin

We want you to be 100% satisfied with your Michelin tires. If you have questions, then view our Michelin Warranty Information and the Michelin Promise Plan.

www.michelinman.com

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Hi TSLA Pilot,

I just wore through the inside edge of my second set of rear Michelins. I would like to get a free tire replacement. I clicked the link you posted and was going to contact them through the email but the available email categories for contact were all related to purchase. Who, how and what department at Michelin would your recommend I contact? I bought the tires from Tesla and they were only interested in selling me new tires. Thanks!

Yes, I'd presume most Tesla Service Centers aren't too concerned about getting into a Michelin warranty replacement--they just want your money I'm afraid.

Try these links below, and note that Discount Tire IS a Michelin dealer (although nearly all of them want to just sell you a new set of tires too, so you have to press for the warranty claim, AND keep your old tires until it's all adjudicated):

Michelin Warranty Information | Michelin

We want you to be 100% satisfied with your Michelin tires. If you have questions, then view our Michelin Warranty Information and the Michelin Promise Plan.

www.michelinman.com

or:

Contact Michelin Tires Expert USA | Michelin Tires

Is there something you couldn't find on our website? Contact our tire experts and get the answers you need to stay safe on the road.

www.michelinman.com

 

[TSLA Pilot]

I sit 45 mins from home waiting on AAA because telsa cant get to it until the morning.. same situation. 15,329 miles and even wear but full separation. This seems to be a tire failure for sure.
21” on MS plaid 2023

Contact Michelin Tires Expert USA | Michelin Tires and "Contact us" as well.

Get a free replacement set from Michelin . . . .

 

[AAKEE]

Contact Michelin Tires Expert USA | Michelin Tires and "Contact us" as well.

Get a free replacement set from Michelin . . . .

Care to take a picture and post?

 

[terranx]

I mean aren’t the LR with 21s still seeing the issue also

Only the Michelins PS4s as best as I can find. Which isn't what the 21" LRs come with anymore in the US.

The car with the unknown tires above wasn't a Palladium, so not sure how relevant that is here considering the suspension has changed considerably.

 

[HollywoodCole]

Wow, a sample size of "ONE" with an unknown wheel/tire combination (BUT NOT AN OEM combination), and there are literally tens of thousands of Plaids since 2021 with 19" wheels with next to zero issues.

So "absolutely positively not a Michelin issue" is a pretty huge jump, no?

Not much scientific method there folks . . . .

It remains very likely a "Michelin issue" since it's so prevalent among the 21" Michelin fleet, and so far beyond rare in the 19" Pirelli fleet.

For those with the 21" Michelins, be SURE to file a formal complaint via their website and you'll get a new set of tires from them, AND create another data point to help get these janky tires off the road, hopefully BEFORE someone gets hurt.

Michelin Warranty Information | Michelin

We want you to be 100% satisfied with your Michelin tires. If you have questions, then view our Michelin Warranty Information and the Michelin Promise Plan.

www.michelinman.com

Honest question though, I have seen several say this is because the 19" tires flex more, allowing the tread to sit more flat despite the alignment issues. Isn't that more likely than a tire brand problem since we're not comparing 2 brands of 21" tires?

 

[terranx]

Honest question though, I have seen several say this is because the 19" tires flex more, allowing the tread to sit more flat despite the alignment issues. Isn't that more likely than a tire brand problem since we're not comparing 2 brands of 21" tires?

I have never seen another car where toe can be so off as to completely destroy a low profile tire while other wheel/tire combos come out completely unscathed for the duration of their expected life.

I can buy the toe causing the 21s to wear faster than 19s or 20s. But I don't buy them causing the 21s to be shredded over the course of a couple thousand miles while no detectable uneven wear occurs on any other tires.

 

[AMPd]

Contacted a few shops regarding having the macsboost shims installed, none are reasonable and the worst one is a shop that’s charging 1.5 hours of labor per side and they want to do an alignment which is not necessary according to the instructions.

So I’m just gonna install it myself and save the nearly 600 bucks they want, once I install the new wheels.

 

[canasion35]

Contacted a few shops regarding having the macsboost shims installed, none are reasonable and the worst one is a shop that’s charging 1.5 hours of labor per side and they want to do an alignment which is not necessary according to the instructions.

So I’m just gonna install it myself and save the nearly 600 bucks they want, once I install the new wheels.

You should get it aligned!

 

[AMPd]

You should get it aligned!

I don’t believe it’s necessary so I won’t, but if it feels like I’m having an alignment issue or seeing irregular wear then I’ll do it and contact macsboost and let them know about it