Performance Plus Package now available as option or retrofit

[JerryNycom]

Just went to michelinman.com and if you pick Tesla MS with 21" you get the Model# 80085 at $692 each for front and rears. If you pick the P+ option it gives you the same tire for the front but the rear obviously is wider, model# 16584 at $715 each. Makes sense now.

 

[Spurkey]

Same tire, but the P+ are wider. 265 vs 245.

I wonder if they kept the rim size the same but just squeezed wider rubber onto them? I've done that a couple of times for cars I've AutoXed regularly even though Jerry would probably yell at me.

 

[andrewket]

I wonder if they kept the rim size the same but just squeezed wider rubber onto them? I've done that a couple of times for cars I've AutoXed regularly even though Jerry would probably yell at me.

The rear rims are 20mm wider as well.

 

[lolachampcar]

Cross posted from Tesla Motors

Speculation always seems to fill a knowledge gap. We do not know a lot about the P+ package so let's speculate some more.
I've provided a first attempt at a factual rating for each of my comments. Let's call it a BS factor with 0 being an absolute certainty and 10 being complete fabrication.

(2) I built a set of upper rear arms to adjust the rear suspension. I could not locate the vendor for the suspension bushings so I built tools to press out the original Tesla bits and press them into my new arms. I bring this up because someone mentioned above that the retrofit kit consisted of upper and lower arms with new bushings. The geometry is reasonably aggressive in the rear (thus my suspension change) so I am assuming the P+ changes are bushings only. If that is the case, then simply supplying the bushings for swapping out would be the way to achieve the desired result at a fraction of the cost.

(7) The sway bars can not be swapped….. The mounting point separation is fairly large so there is very little stress on the mounting points. Everything else under MS is stout to say the least so I suspect the bar mounting points can accept the stresses driven by larger ID bars. I would not think mounting points would be the reason you can not do the bars. The rear bar does pivot to the front of the drive unit and simply may not be removable without dropping the whole drive assembly. If this is the reason for not doing a field upgrade of the bars then one would simply need to cut the existing bar to remove it then use a splined replacement upgrade. This approach is used all over the racing world by people much more anal than the average MS owner.

(3) Most street cars are built with understeer or push. This means that the front will tend to slide before the rear when cornering. The reason for this is simple; when you get into a corner with too much energy the front wheels will start to slip. Most people's natural reaction is to either turn the wheel a bit more (obviously does not work and will be instantly apparent) and/or lift from the throttle. Lifting transfers weight to the front tires and allows the car to turn. In control terms this is called a damped system. The response increases stability. Conversely, lifting off the throttle when the back end steps out likewise transfers weight to the front tires which increases rotation. This is obviously a non-stable situation and will soon have the driver looking at where he just came from.

Increasing rear stiffness with bushings will increase transitional stability (the rear will take a set faster and feel more responsive) at the expense of mechanical grip. My guess is that the larger rear tires are added to return the lost mechanical grip and keep the car balanced towards understeer. I suspect my preference will be the same tire all the way around (for ease of rotation) and a more neutral car. This would be food for thought when considering if you wanted or needed the larger rear rims/tires.

(6) The dampers can be swapped…… MS uses the MB air spring/damper units and there is no reason that I can think of that you can not simply swap them out. I've considered having the dampers re-valved but would like to know if Tesla has increased the spring rate of the air springs before heading down that path. The real caveat for me is if Tesla made a change in their stability control firmware for the P+ package.

Please feel free to adjust my BS factor or otherwise correct me. I've been promised a call from chassis engineering to discuss my changes and the P+ package. I'll post what I'm permitted after the call.

 

[Spurkey]

The rear rims are 20mm wider as well.

Are we sure about that yet? I've yet to see a detailed list of what the P+ package includes. It would be great if the rims are wider, I feel that 265 is still too narrow to handle the off-the-line torque a MS Perf can put down - a 285 or 295 width tire would've been a better choice.

 

[andrewket]

Are we sure about that yet? I've yet to see a detailed list of what the P+ package includes. It would be great if the rims are wider, I feel that 265 is still too narrow to handle the off-the-line torque a MS Perf can put down - a 285 or 295 width tire would've been a better choice.

From my product specialist:

Performance Plus takes one of the world's best sedans into supercar handling territory, while also improving ride quality and range. After hundreds of iterations affecting every detail of the suspension, our vehicle dynamics team was able to achieve the rare outcome of simultaneously improving performance, comfort and efficiency. In addition to upgraded dampers, bushings, stabilizer bars and tires (Michelin Pilot Sport) , the rear wheels are 1/2" wider and staggered for improved acceleration on low grip surfaces. Range improvement is 8 to 12 miles. Requires 21" Wheels, available in Grey or Silver.

Rear wheels are 1/2" wider.

 

[Spurkey]

From my product specialist:

Performance Plus takes one of the world's best sedans into supercar handling territory, while also improving ride quality and range. After hundreds of iterations affecting every detail of the suspension, our vehicle dynamics team was able to achieve the rare outcome of simultaneously improving performance, comfort and efficiency. In addition to upgraded dampers, bushings, stabilizer bars and tires (Michelin Pilot Sport) , the rear wheels are 1/2" wider and staggered for improved acceleration on low grip surfaces. Range improvement is 8 to 12 miles. Requires 21" Wheels, available in Grey or Silver.

Rear wheels are 1/2" wider.

That doesn't actually say anything new, that's just cut & pasted from the website:
Model S Options and Pricing | Tesla Motors
Model S Options Pricing | Tesla Motors
I would still like to see explicit details of the rim sizes. From a manufacturing standpoint it sounds like more of a headache for Tesla to keep 2 different rim fitments in stock. Ferrari did something like this with the F430 - the 'regular' version started with 225-width front rubber, the F430 Scuderia for a time came with 245-width front rubber on the same size rim. If the Tesla rim sizes stay the same then those of us that got our cars before the P+ option was offered can just wait for the first set of tires to wear down then order the 265-width rubber.

 

[trils0n]

Increasing rear stiffness with bushings will increase transitional stability (the rear will take a set faster and feel more responsive)

What does "take a set faster" mean? My Model S often feels unsettled at highway speeds, particularly at pavement transitions where there is a little bit of a bump (on ramps or overpasses the curve of the turn seems to enhance the unsettled feeling). Does that mean it would feel more planted going over things like that?

 

[lolachampcar]

My apologies for the slang... When you start a turn you side load a car. The overall stiffness of the suspension determines how quickly the car settles into a set or static loaded condition. This is what I was referring to when I said take a set.

Extreme examples would be to go through a twisty bit of road or a switch back with a 90s era Cadillac and the Ferrari F430 mentioned above. One will "slosh" from side to side as you change directions while the other will very quickly load the suspension and track each direction. Part of the difference is bulk but most is chassis and suspension stiffness. The F430 "takes a set" quickly as you go from right to left and then back again.

As for your question, I would think yes, it would feel more "planted".

 

[trils0n]

@lolachampcar Thanks for the explanation -- very helpful. I guess I expected my Model S to be stiffer and have less "slosh" as you put it. I remember my test drive being that way.

 

[EMDoc]

Lolachampcar -

thanks for the update and info. Looking forward to hearing more. I do notice a lot of "slosh" or side to side sway when accelerating at freeway speeds. I appreciate your explanation and would love to make the car more stable but keep all four wheels the same. Lets see what the P+ package offers except for the wheels. Tesla ownership emailed and said dampers could not be changed though. Anyway keep us updated!

 

[dennis]

Increasing rear stiffness with bushings will increase transitional stability (the rear will take a set faster and feel more responsive) at the expense of mechanical grip. My guess is that the larger rear tires are added to return the lost mechanical grip and keep the car balanced towards understeer.

Given that changing the bushings increases transitional stability, what is the effect of the larger sway bars? In other words, what are we MSP users losing if we can't upgrade to the new bars?

 

[lolachampcar]

I'll take a stab at that one... The bushings control movement between two bits. With respect to the rear suspension arms, there are bushings on the outside of the arm where it attaches to the upright (thingy assembly that the wheel bolts to) and on the inside where the arm bolts to the solid part of the car. So, when the bushings flex allowing movement, they effectively allow the wheel to move with resect to the car itself. Imagine your wheels attached to you by rubber bands and you can visualize how the back end of the car could feel squishy, squirmy, etc. when you put that massive acceleration ( ) load on rear tires. Stiffening those bushings will allow more vibration, road noise and the like to make it from the rear wheels through to the chassis of the car while it improves the control (and thus feel) of those tires.

Sway bars do pretty much exactly what they say they do. Draw a line between the center of the front and rear wheels then imagine the centrifugal forces of going around a corner. Most cars have more mass above that line then below which drives the top of the car to roll out or, put differently, the car top to sway out. A sway bar connects the right side of the car to the left to resist those swaying forces. That is a simple explanation of a much more complicated system but I can not think of a good way to describe it here (help anyone?). Anyway, one of my first impressions of MS after trying to upset it in a corner (during a test drive, thank you to that brave Tesla employee) was that the car pushed through the tire contact patch a lot more than any street car I have ever driven as opposed to trying to roll it over (from a high center of gravity and sway). Sure, you get that feeling from a purpose built race car like a formula atlantic, GTP or ChampCar but not a street car. Anyway, my first thought about the bars was you really do not need big bars as the CG is better on MS than most other cars so there is less roll to control. Less roll bar typically means better slow speed or mechanical grip so small bars are not bad if roll is acceptable. The bigger roll bars will be most noticeable in a switch back situation where the car is loaded going one direction then quickly unloaded then loaded going the other direction.

I hope that last bit helped although after re-reading it I'm not sure it did.

 

[Spurkey]

I would still like to see explicit details of the rim sizes.

Confirmed. (Sorry for replying to my own post. ) I got this from my service advisor. Take a deep breath, a retrofit ain't cheap...

Performance Plus Retrofit - $13,000

Several customers have inquired about a field retrofit for the Performance Plus option. We do plan to offer this beginning this Summer for $13,500.

This upgrade will include the following items from the factory installed Performance Plus option:

* 2 x Rear lower control arms with revised stiffer bushings
* 2 x Rear upper links with revised stiffer bushings
* 2 x 21" x 8.5" front wheels with 245/35R21 Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires
* 2 x 21" x 9" rear wheels with 265/35R21 Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires

This is a package engineered to provide the enthusiast driver with a more responsive car and added cornering grip while maintaining excellent ride quality. While this does not include the revised dampers and stabilizer bars that the factory option does include, we have engineered this package to offer the majority of the handling benefits without requiring a full suspension removal and replacement, which would be far more costly.

The added grip of the wider rear tires necessitates the added lateral stiffness provided by the revised bushings, so the rear wheels are not available individually.

 

[4sevens.com]

Confirmed. (Sorry for replying to my own post. ) I got this from my service advisor. Take a deep breath, a retrofit ain't cheap...

Performance Plus Retrofit - $13,000

Several customers have inquired about a field retrofit for the Performance Plus option. We do plan to offer this beginning this Summer for $13,500.

This upgrade will include the following items from the factory installed Performance Plus option:

* 2 x Rear lower control arms with revised stiffer bushings
* 2 x Rear upper links with revised stiffer bushings
* 2 x 21" x 8.5" front wheels with 245/35R21 Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires
* 2 x 21" x 9" rear wheels with 265/35R21 Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires

This is a package engineered to provide the enthusiast driver with a more responsive car and added cornering grip while maintaining excellent ride quality. While this does not include the revised dampers and stabilizer bars that the factory option does include, we have engineered this package to offer the majority of the handling benefits without requiring a full suspension removal and replacement, which would be far more costly.

The added grip of the wider rear tires necessitates the added lateral stiffness provided by the revised bushings, so the rear wheels are not available individually.

What about the upgraded dampers? Are they omitted in the retrofit??

 

[AnOutsider]

If that number is real, Tesla is smoking...

Aftermarket.

 

[JohnQ]

If that number is real, Tesla is smoking...

Aftermarket.

It's always possible that they set the retrofit price this high because they don't really want to do it. Significantly reduces the numbers who opt for it and makes a worthwhile profit for the hassle of doing it. Contractors pull this stuff all the time.

 

[dennis]

Several customers have inquired about a field retrofit for the Performance Plus option. We do plan to offer this beginning this Summer for $13,500.

While this does not include the revised dampers and stabilizer bars that the factory option does include, we have engineered this package to offer the majority of the handling benefits without requiring a full suspension removal and replacement, which would be far more costly.

The added grip of the wider rear tires necessitates the added lateral stiffness provided by the revised bushings, so the rear wheels are not available individually.

This REALLY sucks. Way to screw the early adopters who fronted you $40K before you produced a single Model S. Charge them twice as much for less than the full package. I'm really pissed.

 

[K Hall]

This REALLY sucks. Way to screw the early adopters who fronted you $40K before you produced a single Model S. Charge them twice as much for less than the full package. I'm really pissed.

This is auto marketing 101. They entice you to trade in your car for a new model to get the enhancements. The trade in unit makes Tesla available to another level of consumers who buy almost new cars.

I think it is exactly what they need to do to keep demand moving forward.

 

[Spurkey]

What about the upgraded dampers? Are they omitted in the retrofit??

It's in the message I posted:

While this does not include the revised dampers and stabilizer bars that the factory option does include...

$13K for only stiffer bushings & wider rear tires is ri-di-cu-lous. Granted I was lucky enough to get the PS2s on my car already, but for those for whom the PS2s are an upgrade this is still obscene.