-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
P85D styling not distinctive enough?
- Thread starter Perfect_Flaw
- Start date
-
- Tags
- Model S
+1000 Scott
Pretty crazy to think someone can buy a 2012 Model S 60kw right now, and slap a P85D badge on the back and no one could tell the difference unless they take a test drive from 0-60. They wont feel much of a difference in braking and handling, either.
scott jones
Member
My point was, BY THE TIME they make exterior changes, it will be AT LEAST 4 years.
They just put out the D, they're not going to be making exterior changes to it anytime soon.
So it will be 4 or 5 years before there are any exterior changes.
And it's not just about "changes", but the difference in your line up.
To have an S60 for $70,000 look identical to a P85D for almost double that, makes no sense.
And I believe, after the initial desire to have "the fastest, newest power plant"... sales of the top model (P85D) will drop because of the price difference.
When people are at that Mac Computer, checking off the boxes, and see there's no visual difference, an extra 50 Grand will seem a bit much to the majority.
"Pretty crazy to think someone can buy a 2012 Model S 60kw right now, and slap a P85D badge on the back and no one could tell the difference unless they take a test drive from 0-60. They wont feel much of a difference in braking and handling, either." AGREED. I got a S85 because visually inside and out there wasn't enough of a difference, and now, just the same for the more expensive model. BUT if I had LOTS of extra cash, I might!
Last edited:
They'll tell the difference when one car opens the garage door, drives itself out while raising the suspension a bit because of the garage lip, closes the garage, and parks it at the front door. They then drive the car onto the highway, where the car drives itself for an hour, and parks itself in a garage.
Honestly, I never realized that some people really do care about the exterior more than the actual capabilities, but I think that's OK now, this thread has changed my mind. We should able to accommodate all sorts of desires and preferences. I hope that Tesla does consider styling. However, I'll be the profile of a person who wants the scientific and measurable metrics to improve over the choice of exterior.
Funny thing is, why would the car need to drive itself out of the garage? In the time the car is doing that I could have hopped in and just drove off. That would be a totally pointless feature...
- - - Updated - - -
I recommend you read through the whole thread.
Yes, exterior changes would be nice.
But, most of all, performance enhancements comparable to M, AMG, and S/RS cars would be even better.
Better cooling system (that allows the car to run longer before limp/thermal protection mode), better brakes (Cooling and bigger/better stopping power), better suspension that is tuned or could have better tuning, performance app with better car performance data and stats, better aero functions, etc. It's not just about looks. It's about adding value to the expensive performance package of the P85D and increasing value of said package like what BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and even Chrysler (SRT) does. Adding horsepower and AWD is not an overall better vehicle, its only faster going from 0-60 and thats it. A performance package should increase performance stats across the board, plain and simple.
In fact, stopping power and distance, and even potentially handling on the slalom and skidpad might even be worse with the P85D because of almost 300 lbs of added weight to the car. I doubt suspension/brake/etc changes were made to handle that extra weight. It is basically a 300lb heavier car with more power. Pretty much the electric equivalent of a muscle car- all power in a straight line and thats it. Heavy and powerful.
The P85D comes with suspension enhancements over the S85D. As to changing the "visuals", tweaking the fenders and skirts and air intakes or whatever, like AMG or the BMW M series does, that isn't "better" it's just a difference that makes no difference.
Tesla is still a small company and there is no need for it to devote resources to cosmetic changes that offer no functional benefits, especially when the company is production constrained, not demand constrained.
And I've never owned a Lincoln. Have owned 6 Porsche's though. So you can dispense with the stereotypes.
Tesla is still a small company and there is no need for it to devote resources to cosmetic changes that offer no functional benefits, especially when the company is production constrained, not demand constrained.
And I've never owned a Lincoln. Have owned 6 Porsche's though. So you can dispense with the stereotypes.
Great, you would know about the huge differences in overall performance when spending the extra money for a Porsche Panamera Turbo S vs. a base model Panamera.. including exterior and mechanical enhancements that clearly signal it is a premium edition. It also is improved performance-wise across the board and would completely dominate the Model S on the track, hang with it from 0-60, and leave it in the dust from there. But thats a conversation for another time. Clearly, Tesla should take a page from the way Porsche distinguishes their different tier levels in their lineup. Going down the street you know a base vs. Turbo model of any of their vehicles, and the owners are rewarded with a variety of improvements for the money they spent.. not just more horsepower.
dhrivnak
Active Member
It can still be a sleeper, it doesn't need crazy changes- just subtle differences for more airflow to the brakes and cooling systems, unique styled rims- maybe the lower plastic parts body colored- unique spoiler, not bigger, just a different design, carbon fiber or just improved rear diffuser, better front splitter for increased frontal downforce, slightly lower than base configuration suspension, maybe the car sits at 1" lower than any other model (either coil or air suspension) for better handling and aero.
Nothing crazy here.. but the biggest difference should be what sits inside the rims, big powerful slotted brakes and better overall suspension and wider tires.
First P85D sighting h/t Reddit
The cooling systems in the D cars must be different to handle dual motors. Is the aggregate cooling capacity increased, I don't know. It's entirely possible the P85D does have increased cooling capacity, and Tesla chose not advertise that fact. It distracts from the "it just works" concept.
The cooling systems in the D cars must be different to handle dual motors. Is the aggregate cooling capacity increased, I don't know. It's entirely possible the P85D does have increased cooling capacity, and Tesla chose not advertise that fact. It distracts from the "it just works" concept.
My sense is that the P85D and S60 are the same car, just different versions. Take my other car, a Lexus LS460L, Exec Class. It cost more than 60% more than a base LS460 and unless you are standing next to the two two cars, it would be very hard to tell them apart. The L460L is a little longer, but the body shape is the same - no fins, same color selections, nothing to distinguish the cars on the outside, except for the L at the end of the badge and a few inches longer footprint. The major differences are all on the inside - with the Exec Class only having 4 seats, and enough room for a medium sized person, like my wife at 5'6", able to put her feet up on the built in ottoman and get a massage in the right passenger side rear seat when the front passenger seat is all the way forward and up. Where the body differences are in the Lexus line are the different models, IS, ES, GS, RX, etc. This is what Tesla will be doing with models X and 3.
chickensevil
Active Member
OK first of all, this has been hashed out before... But let's do it again (although I'm not pulling the data again... You can go research it yourself or shut up cause you don't actually know what you are talking about... Either is fine with me) car manufacturers average a body overhaul and design change every 5-7 years. Thus car has been out less than half that time it is not "old" or "tired" it is holding up amazingly well! No that is not an opinion based call that is based on the FACT they keep increasing demand on this "old/tired" car each year and month it is out. That to me doesn't say there is a problem at all with the design since more people are lining up for it today than yesterday than last month than last year...
Manufacturers that have to do major redesigns shorter than 5 years should TERRIFY you because generally those cars got an overhaul because sales started dropping off badly. Manufacturers plan a certain life out of a design as part of the ROI on the R&D cash they forked out to make the change happen. That is how you get a net profitable car because it is highly expensive to do these changes.
Now to the second thing... You all keep saying they need to put better breaks, better suspension, better wheels... Well guess what they did that. It is drawing from the same better suspension from the plus version and the brakes are the new electric breaking, and of course it has the new performance seats. If you want to throw a crappy skirt, front fender or giant spoiler on it that is actually more likely to HURT performance instead of making it better you can happily turn this car into a rice burner all on your own thank you very much. For a car that has one of the lowest drag coefficients on the market (I think there is one car that matches and one car that beats out of ALL vehicles on the market) there isn't much you can do to improve that and are more likely to HURT that with any amount of cosmetic change. The spoiler they offer is bad enough since it has NO actual affect on the car and is 99.9% there just for looks.
Don't look at it as the P85D is degraded to the state of the other cars but that Tesla made the best body design for ALL models... There isn't a whole lot of room to improve a 99% perfect body.
Manufacturers that have to do major redesigns shorter than 5 years should TERRIFY you because generally those cars got an overhaul because sales started dropping off badly. Manufacturers plan a certain life out of a design as part of the ROI on the R&D cash they forked out to make the change happen. That is how you get a net profitable car because it is highly expensive to do these changes.
Now to the second thing... You all keep saying they need to put better breaks, better suspension, better wheels... Well guess what they did that. It is drawing from the same better suspension from the plus version and the brakes are the new electric breaking, and of course it has the new performance seats. If you want to throw a crappy skirt, front fender or giant spoiler on it that is actually more likely to HURT performance instead of making it better you can happily turn this car into a rice burner all on your own thank you very much. For a car that has one of the lowest drag coefficients on the market (I think there is one car that matches and one car that beats out of ALL vehicles on the market) there isn't much you can do to improve that and are more likely to HURT that with any amount of cosmetic change. The spoiler they offer is bad enough since it has NO actual affect on the car and is 99.9% there just for looks.
Don't look at it as the P85D is degraded to the state of the other cars but that Tesla made the best body design for ALL models... There isn't a whole lot of room to improve a 99% perfect body.
chickensevil
Active Member
Oh and you are all judging the "performance" of this car with how it handles on the road and track without ANYONE save Motor Trend actually getting their hands on it. So please save the "it performs like crap" until someone actually gets their hands on one.
*drops mic*
*drops mic*
Agree with most every thing you said, but I did talk to the engineers about the spoiler. Their exact data is it creates 7% more downforce at highway speeds (70+). So it's a tradeoff whether you favor efficiency at lower speeds or better performance at high speeds.
timpoo
Member
I have to say: after reading through this thread - the only thing I see is "I paid more money, I want people to know it". All the stuff around "subtle" changes and design cues are just to hide what you really want: you want people to know that you paid more. This thread started out focussing on exterior design cues - all the stuff about internal enhancements like brakes or data is just to cover up for the community's backlash against vanity.
Having said all that - I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to show off a bit if that's your thing, but don't pretend it's anything more than vanity.
Having said all that - I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to show off a bit if that's your thing, but don't pretend it's anything more than vanity.
chickensevil
Active Member
True, which is why I wasn't saying it was totally worthless. I just don't think a car that already cuts through the wind and weighs 2.5 tons doesn't need a whole lot of down force... I could be wrong, but would rather not have it than to have it. It would take some serious wind forces to lift this car. I could be wrong, and am clearly biased here against the spoiler so I will just leave it at that. Maybe if the car could go faster than 150 it might start to be a problem.
My DS told me jokingly after the announcement that he was going to start making little D's.
+ 1,000
comparing it to a track car is a red herring anyway. it's not a track car and never pretended to be. if i wanted a track car, i'd buy a McLaren 650 or a 911 GT3.
but i don't want a track car. i want a king of the ROAD. and that king, come December, will be the Tesla P85D.
p.s. - it runs on sunlight
jerjozwik
Active Member
every once in a while i forget that the p85d, with all its acceleration, can still be powered by the wind if the owner decided to.
SmartElectric
Active Member
I drive a Smart ED, which is infinitely customizable, so I "get" people who want something that stands out, that's one of the compelling reasons I didn't buy a FFE or Leaf. I get far more attention in my little electric car than I've ever had in my life of driving muscle and luxury cars. It's a great conversation starter!
However, it wouldn't be a problem for me to drive the P85D looking the same as a S60 on the exterior. Any Tesla is a good Tesla in my books.
I'd far rather Tesla focus on getting the mass market car in my garage ASAP, so the less they futz around with minutia, the better.
It may even be a used Model S next year if the Canadian sellers reduce their asking prices.
However, it wouldn't be a problem for me to drive the P85D looking the same as a S60 on the exterior. Any Tesla is a good Tesla in my books.
I'd far rather Tesla focus on getting the mass market car in my garage ASAP, so the less they futz around with minutia, the better.
It may even be a used Model S next year if the Canadian sellers reduce their asking prices.
