P85D styling not distinctive enough?

[Perfect_Flaw]

I have to say: after reading through this thread - the only thing I see is "I paid more money, I want people to know it". All the stuff around "subtle" changes and design cues are just to hide what you really want: you want people to know that you paid more. This thread started out focussing on exterior design cues - all the stuff about internal enhancements like brakes or data is just to cover up for the community's backlash against vanity.

Having said all that - I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to show off a bit if that's your thing, but don't pretend it's anything more than vanity.

thats your opinion, albeit a wrong, uninformed, and snarky one.

i come from a racing background and am a car enthusiast. I have built, owned, and driven many modified street and track cars. I own many performance cars and am at Laguna Seca at least every 6 weeks with one of my track cars. My daily drivers have always been high performance OEM variations of a base model.

with that said, it's not about wanting people to know I spent more on a car, it's about getting more for what I pay for and ME personally being reminded of why I spent more on the performance model- not just by how fast the car accelerates to 60mph, but by the way it looks, handles, stops, and performs overall as a package.

many people responding against me probably have never as so much driven on a race track or have been a real motor sports enthusiast- great. I assume most people here want to grab groceries and look cool driving off a stop light quick to get your adrenaline pumping. I expected more from the P85D variation. More than just a slight acceleration improvement. The car is much more expensive, twice as expensive as a base 60kwh model. The value proposition tanks quickly after pricing a standard 85kw car. For $85K you can get a decently equipped S85. The P85D variant of that is $120K. You have to ask, what are you really getting for $35,000 more???? (That's not even including the increase in taxes you will spend).

Sorry, but that type of premium only increases Tesla's profit margin while lowering the actual value proposition of the car for an improvement solely in the acceleration department.

 

[chickensevil]

thats your opinion, albeit a wrong, uninformed, and snarky one.

i come from a racing background and am a car enthusiast. I have built, owned, and driven many modified street and track cars. I own many performance cars and am at Laguna Seca at least every 6 weeks with one of my track cars. My daily drivers have always been high performance OEM variations of a base model.

with that said, it's not about wanting people to know I spent more on a car, it's about getting more for what I pay for and ME personally being reminded of why I spent more on the performance model- not just by how fast the car accelerates to 60mph, but by the way it looks, handles, stops, and performs overall as a package.

many people responding against me probably have never as so much driven on a race track or have been a real motor sports enthusiast- great. I assume most people here want to grab groceries and look cool driving off a stop light quick to get your adrenaline pumping. I expected more from the P85D variation. More than just a slight acceleration improvement. The car is much more expensive, twice as expensive as a base 60kwh model. The value proposition tanks quickly after pricing a standard 85kw car. For $85K you can get a decently equipped S85. The P85D variant of that is $120K. You have to ask, what are you really getting for $35,000 more???? (That's not even including the increase in taxes you will spend).

Sorry, but that type of premium only increases Tesla's profit margin while lowering the actual value proposition of the car for an improvement solely in the acceleration department.

But its not 120... It is 105. It is only 120 (or even 135) when add all the extras on to it. Which really could be added mostly to the same 85 without going to the performance and most people do just that. Myself I spent 96 on my 85kwh... And believe me there was a LOT I didn't opt for. "Decently equipped" at 85k would mean you basically only stuck the tech package in there and otherwise got the base model... Not at all what I would consider decent. So if you are going to make crazy dollar comparisons maybe you should get your numbers right.

 

[jerjozwik]

Sorry, but that type of premium only increases Tesla's profit margin while lowering the actual value proposition of the car for an improvement solely in the acceleration department.

have you driven it? do you know, in fact, that the p85d has not improved in any other way?

...because the only information i have to go on is that everyone says it has advanced in all aspects.

...except ricer looks

 

[Perfect_Flaw]

have you driven it? do you know, in fact, that the p85d has not improved in any other way?

...because the only information i have to go on is that everyone says it has advanced in all aspects.

...except ricer looks

"advanced in all aspects"

as in- what? Do you have a reference for this? Maybe next gen seats and other "advancements" that will trickle down to the base cars like bigger sun visors and a motorized charge port door?

we all know Elon, and when he hypes things he doesn't leave anything out. There was nothing more than a secondary motor that drives the front wheels added on top of the P85+ package from what I've read, and I've read a lot on it as I was considering ordering it to replace my P85, but saw no additional value. I paid $25,000 less for my P85 than a P85D with the same options- I don't see the value proposition over a P85, sorry. Not for a 25% premium (assuming you take advantage of the crazy discounted inventory cars right now)

 

[jerjozwik]

"advanced in all aspects"

range: more. source: tesla motors, all we have to go on.
brakes: better[?/ dual motor regen, electromechanical gizmo brakes] source: tesla motors, sorta MT
acceleration: obvious
handling: better. vectored max grip source: tesla motors, motor trend.
top speed: higher. source: tesla motors
sound? n/a

...what else is there?

 

[chickensevil]

"advanced in all aspects"

as in- what? Do you have a reference for this? Maybe next gen seats and other "advancements" that will trickle down to the base cars like bigger sun visors and a motorized charge port door?

we all know Elon, and when he hypes things he doesn't leave anything out. There was nothing more than a secondary motor that drives the front wheels added on top of the P85+ package from what I've read, and I've read a lot on it as I was considering ordering it to replace my P85, but saw no additional value. I paid $25,000 less for my P85 than a P85D with the same options- I don't see the value proposition over a P85, sorry. Not for a 25% premium (assuming you take advantage of the crazy discounted inventory cars right now)

I see what the real issue you have with this is that they make it so eventually the "poorer" model s owners are eventually able to get access to much of the same upgrades. So because you can't be the only special snowflake with the improved seats, braking, dial motors, extra range, extra top speed, extra handling it isn't fair... Is that it?

What is wrong with Tesla generally letting owners option out their cats to their liking? If someone really wants to throw 21s a spoiler, super leather seats, air suspension, you name it! Onto a 60kW car where is there any harm? All that is going to run them close to 100k or more so it isn't like they aren't still paying good money for what they get.

 

[Perfect_Flaw]

range: more. source: tesla motors, all we have to go on.
brakes: better[?/ dual motor regen, electromechanical gizmo brakes] source: tesla motors, sorta MT
acceleration: obvious
handling: better. vectored max grip source: tesla motors, motor trend.
top speed: higher. source: tesla motors
sound? n/a

...what else is there?

You are proving my point.

Every thing you mentioned there comes with the S85D. Where is the value proposition for the P85D besides better acceleration?

Range- its 3-4%. If that. That is literally 1-2 minutes of supercharging. It is the difference between running your car down to 18 miles or 9 miles. Either way, why did you wait that long to get a charge with so many charging options available.

Brakes, sounds like a modification to regen- nothing to do with stopping distance, clamping power, additional cooling for frequent use of braking during a high performance drive, etc. Nothing to see here.

Acceleration, yes- of course.

Handling- vectored max grip, possibly. This is the case with the S85D as well. Body roll, understeer/oversteer situations, max g-force in a turn, brake fade into corners, etc. - no improvement.

At the end of the day nothing about enhanced cooling has been said. The current Model S will only allow 100% power for about 1 - 2 minutes max before going into 50% power mode. You cannot call this a supercar- what supercar is only a supercar for a minute of use and cannot corner any better than a Mustang GT or Camaro?

I love my P85. It is an amazing car. I wanted the P85D to be better, but it is equivalent to just tossing on a supercharger on an ICE vehicle and calling it a performance model without any additional enhancements.

Will I end up in a P85D? Yes. In a year or two, and when they have $8-10K discounts on inventory models. Until then, P85D drivers will be driving the same exact car as I do, except a little more power. When I want power I just take out my 725HP Corvette Z06 anyway and scratch off high 9's in the quarter mile. I am sure I will run into a P85D while driving around, like the guy who said he will be "king of the road" in his P85D. I'd love to see his face if he tried to keep up with one of my street cars.

 

[Aargau]

\When I want power I just take out my 725HP Corvette Z06 anyway and scratch off high 9's in the quarter mile. I am sure I will run into a P85D while driving around, like the guy who said he will be "king of the road" in his P85D. I'd love to see his face if he tried to keep up with one of my street cars.

I started this thread just to show that there are actually P85Ds out there now. Can we end this tedious thread if we all agree you have the biggest surrogate penis?

 

[jerjozwik]

GT, not race car.

i have a race car, im still going for the p85d. i wont be taking it to willow springs because... thats not the point. i spoke to the lead engineer [?] at the D event and specifically mentioned the cooling / race track connection and he just kind shrugged. they are not interested building the car for the track. you want a track electric go over to evwest.

anyway stop posting and just wait 2 weeks and see actual reviews and criticisms of the car before going all nuts-o over it.

 

[Perfect_Flaw]

GT, not race car.

i have a race car, im still going for the p85d. i wont be taking it to willow springs because... thats not the point. i spoke to the lead engineer [?] at the D event and specifically mentioned the cooling / race track connection and he just kind shrugged. they are not interested building the car for the track. you want a track electric go over to evwest.

anyway stop posting and just wait 2 weeks and see actual reviews and criticisms of the car before going all nuts-o over it.

I don't need to see the reviews- the car is a higher horsepower version of the S85 and thats it, maybe a couple suspension bushings and 20mm wider rear tires- but thats it. I am sure it will be a rocket out of the hole, we know this. I was just wanting a car more comparable to the total performance package of an M5, S63 AMG, Audi S7. I guess I want the best of both worlds.. an electric that performs as well as its ICE equivalent in all aspects, not just one. But maybe Tesla wont be that company to do it then. Until then, the P85D will be a great electric sedan that can haul groceries and knock off killer AWD launches from 0-60 and looks and performs in every way as a 60kw version.. nothing wrong with that though. If you put a gigantic premium on 0-60 acceleration times and a badge on the rear end, that is.

 

[jerjozwik]

from 0-60 and looks and performs in every way as a 60kw version.. nothing wrong with that though. If you put a gigantic premium on 0-60 acceleration times and a badge on the rear end, that is.

i want to stop... i really do.

BUT... same as the 60kw version? are you saying to bought the p85+ as a car that performs the same as the 60kw car?
im pretty sure that is not true.

 

[Greenlight]

I have Track cars, Rally cars,1/4 mile cars, muscle cars and exotic 1500 WHP street cars.
My order is in for the P85D beacause its none of the above. 0-60 in 3.2 in complete silence that draws no attention.

 

[Perfect_Flaw]

I have Track cars, Rally cars,1/4 mile cars, muscle cars and exotic 1500 WHP street cars.
My order is in for the P85D beacause its none of the above. 0-60 in 3.2 in complete silence that draws no attention.

I agree with you 1,000% actually. That was one of my exact reasonings for my P85. Does 0-60 in 3.9 seconds and I can drive it hard around town without the cops hearing my loud headers and exhausts of my other cars. Personally, I am a fan of RWD more than AWD. I sold my GT-R 4 months ago and while the launches were great, my RWD cars are just so much more fun to drive. Enjoy your P85D.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Thanks for that Bonnie, and your contribution here.

The thread is actually about the P85D and wishing it came with more exterior and mechanical enhancements because of its price difference, similar to what BMW does with their M cars, Mercedes with their AMG cars, and Audi with their S and RS vehicles. It is a discussion about differing opinions on why some people do not mind paying for minimal features as long as it accelerates quicker, versus people thinking the overall package should have more functionality and performance features at this price point.

I am encouraged that some people who miss the point at least have such high expectations. Tesla isn't in the business stage to bother about such trivial matters. The point is they are developing their production processes from the ground up as to maximize margins. Whereas BMW/Mercedes already outsource every aspect of the car except the engine and salemanship. And then for the M/AMG line they outsource the engine tune as well.

Tesla will not outsource and Tesla CANNOT MEET DEMAND. They have doubled their employees in the past year and still can't keep up. They are not about to waste talent, time, and complexity on satisfying the few and in between. They can worry about trim line and gills when they are selling 250,000 model 3's in 2020.

It would be cool if they made a track going car as a proof of concept

 

[Perfect_Flaw]

I am encouraged that some people who miss the point at least have such high expectations. Tesla isn't in the business stage to bother about such trivial matters. The point is they are developing their production processes from the ground up as to maximize margins. Whereas BMW/Mercedes already outsource every aspect of the car except the engine and salemanship. And then for the M/AMG line they outsource the engine tune as well.

Tesla will not outsource and Tesla CANNOT MEET DEMAND. They have doubled their employees in the past year and still can't keep up. They are not about to waste talent, time, and complexity on satisfying the few and in between. They can worry about trim line and gills when they are selling 250,000 model 3's in 2020.

It would be cool if they made a track going car as a proof of concept

250,000 Model 3's in only 5 years time. Yet, the Model X wont even begin deliveries for another year. Also, the service centers are already at max capacity and some supercharging locations have lines waiting to charge. I know you stated I have high expectations at the beginning of your paragraph, but you definitely beat me on high expectations.

 

[tezco]

The D enhancements are all under the skin, not wasted on a meaningless and gaudy facelift of the exterior. I also really like the fact that the D styling doesn't make my 3 year old S look dated, and thereby cause an early depreciation of my asset.

 

[Perfect_Flaw]

The D enhancements are all under the skin, not wasted on a meaningless and gaudy facelift of the exterior. I also really like the fact that the D styling doesn't make my 3 year old S look dated, and thereby cause an early depreciation of my asset.

The M, AMG, and S/RS performance variants of the big 3 luxury brands have zero depreciative effect on their base model versions. That is also my point. If you separate the P85D from the base models much better and distinguish them as in a different class, like the aforementioned automakers do, they will have zero effect financially on the depreciation and value of their base model siblings.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

What I am simply stating is the P85D should clearly have exterior performance queues and LOOK like a premium upgrade over the standard versions

including exterior and mechanical enhancements that clearly signal it is a premium edition.

Going down the street you know a base vs. Turbo model of any of their vehicles, and the owners are rewarded with a variety of improvements for the money they spent.. not just more horsepower.

It's pretty clear what you're getting at here, and not surprisingly this isn't the right crowd to care about such things.

Pretty crazy to think someone can buy a 2012 Model S 60kw right now, and slap a P85D badge on the back and no one could tell the difference unless they take a test drive from 0-60. They wont feel much of a difference in braking and handling, either.

Or maybe that's because Tesla decided to give all of their cars their best handling and braking, not just the "premium" versions.

I have a P85 and love it, but clearly the P85D was made to increase profits while delivering minimal value for maximum price- they have a LOT of catching up to do with the big boys!

I understand Tesla is maximizing profits, but come on here Elon..

Let's all expect the minimal amount of additions and features at a maximum price, so Tesla can keep their simple/minimal logistics management process in place (and of course, profit margins.)

Lets not not talk about the investment side of TSLA, that has a market cap almost as high as GM yet makes no profits and is valued like a tech company vs an automotive company. TSLA is in a bubble area in this dot com bubble 2.0. When the bubble pops I can't wait to hear how everyone sold at the top lol.

You short TSLA, bro?

 

[Higgs]

Until then, P85D drivers will be driving the same exact car as I do (P85), except a little more power.

and better suspension/handling.

oh, and better brakes.

oh, and better acceleration.

oh, and better traction.

oh, and higher top speed.

oh, and Autopilot sensors.

oh, and it's quieter.

oh, and the seats are a lot better.

oh, and it has more range.


but yeah, other than that, it's the exact same car you drive.

 

[tezco]

The M, AMG, and S/RS performance variants of the big 3 luxury brands have zero depreciative effect on their base model versions. That is also my point. If you separate the P85D from the base models much better and distinguish them as in a different class, like the aforementioned automakers do, they will have zero effect financially on the depreciation and value of their base model siblings.

What is the effect of a significant generational change of the skin, though? I suspect there is a significant down tick when the appearance of your car suddenly is perceived to be a generation out of date. So far that hasn't happened with the S, which was my point.