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Out of juice - battery issue, UI issue, or user mistake?
- Thread starter stevepeck1
- Start date
Did you read the OPs post? They left with a very substantial buffer, particularly for the terrain being traveled.
He even used the trip planner:
I did read the OP, did you read his next comment? Out of juice - battery issue, UI issue, or user mistake? - Page 4
evtripplanner is extremely enlightening. Upon entering the exact inputs, it says the car would use 156 Rated Miles, which bears out EXACTLY to the reality we experienced. A few miles short.
Craptastic!
It would be great if the in-car trip computer had this sort of accuracy.
Evtripplanner left him ZERO buffer (yes, not the car trip planner, I understand that). And I asked him about 3 times if he used the trip tab to see what the car estimated he would use, he never responded. So my point stands, sucks it ran out at 1-2%, but he/his wife really should have used the trip tab and tried to get there with more than 2%, if that was possible.
Using the "trip planner" could mean he had the beta software turned on, and set to show which superchargers to use. Doesn't mean he'd make it to the superchargers with enough juice, that thing is so buggy.
He also said the speed got up to 80 at one point. That buffer could go away quickly at that speed. Without looking at all the data for entire drive we are all just guessing. If the car wasn't able to drive more than 40mph with 70miles or rated range there might be something wrong with the car.
mknox
Well-Known Member
I actually did switch my dash to Percentage a while back, but mainly because I was starting to obsess over my declining Rated Range numbers as my car gets older and the battery degrades. I'm much happier with it this way. Now I know that it is just a linear gauge of how much "fuel" I have in the "tank" and I use the Trip Estimator when I want to know how far I can really go. I know it's a bit of a gas car paradigm, but it works for me.
Ideally, I'd like to see that Projected Miles number from the Trip Planner up on the main dashboard somehow.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
The Energy graph with the Nav system knows the distance to your destination and your speed, the terrain and actual energy use. It then calculates with a high degree of accuracy your energy use to your destination. The rated range on the speedometer knows none of this and only shows the percentage left (and like and ICE car fuel gauge, it may be off a bit near the empty mark). Don't rely on the rated range (especially if you are driving fast, uphill, using A/C or heater, etc.). Use the Nav system Energy graph. It works great.
Use the Nav system Energy graph. It works great.
Use the Nav system Energy graph. It works great.
Use the Nav system Energy graph. It works great.
One of the worst things for battery range is cruise control. The car will modulate the throttle up and down to maintain the speed you tell it to. If you're going up a hill, it's going to go well above 40 on the power meter.
If you can pin your foot to the right side of the footwell, you're going to be able to keep the power to a minimum. This will slow you down on inclines and will allow you to speed up in declines. If you go above 70 or so on a decline, lift your foot until the power meter is "0" and not let it go into regen. Only let it go into regen if it's a steep decline and you would otherwise go above a comfortable speed.
Also, put the steering in Sport mode, as it uses less energy.
To the OP, it sounds like Ellen did more spirited driving than she realized. Pushing the car up to 80MPH when it's on "0 Miles" is asking for a tow truck.
Plan better, charge higher, and drive easier.
If you can pin your foot to the right side of the footwell, you're going to be able to keep the power to a minimum. This will slow you down on inclines and will allow you to speed up in declines. If you go above 70 or so on a decline, lift your foot until the power meter is "0" and not let it go into regen. Only let it go into regen if it's a steep decline and you would otherwise go above a comfortable speed.
Also, put the steering in Sport mode, as it uses less energy.
To the OP, it sounds like Ellen did more spirited driving than she realized. Pushing the car up to 80MPH when it's on "0 Miles" is asking for a tow truck.
Plan better, charge higher, and drive easier.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
That may work in Texas where everything is mostly flat but is literally a "no go" where I live in the mountains. Fixed power input will leave you going uphill at 10 MPH and downhill at 130 MPH. I have a downhill stretch from the top of Donner Pass (7000 ft) to the Sacramento valley ( 200 ft) which is mostly in regen for 60 miles and leaves me with more charge in the battery at the bottom of the hill. (Of course, going the other way I tend to use rather more of the battery charge)
No, it’s not “well before”. It’s a very small amount. As Max pointed out, it’s down to the last 2% or less, and we don’t know what range of measurement accuracy there is at that small level. The only way to cover for that is to shift the whole thing, as someone else said, but that just leads to people measuring and then quoting exactly how much there is “below 0”, as happened before, and then people shoot themselves in the foot when they count on it and it turns out to be off by a few miles from this exact same measurement inaccuracy.
Just slowing up a bit on the uphills makes a big difference. You don't have to keep your foot steady. DFW->Granite Falls, WA and back averaged 253 Wh/mi with plenty of mountains. (lifetime 249, so not much difference)
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I completely agree, and that was my larger point upthread. The car should not shut down before it hits zero. This is a software issue that needs to be remedied. I've driven down to zero before, assuming that it was accurate to that point.
There is no reason to assume it's more accurate at that point than any other point. It's an approximation at any value.
Um, sorry but this is very misleading. The extra drag on an MS doing 60mph compared with 40mph would equate to about 8kW (nearly double - Model S Efficiency and Range | Tesla Motors). The loads imposed by accessories would be about 2.5kW max, most of which would be due to the HVAC. Your theory would hold true between 0mph and ~25mph. If you turn off the HVAC then it would only hold true between 0 and ~5mph. MW
The only way to guarantee that no car driver hits zero is creating a buffer; in turn, people will read that there's a buffer and will assume a buffer exists, then we'll have a bunch of people coming here and complaining that they didn't get the "20 mile buffer that everyone seems to have". I'm willing to bet the number of cars that shut down before zero is a statistically insignificant number, and that Tesla uses that data to adjust accordingly.
I agree with FlasherZ. Tesla did the right thing by not displaying a "reserve" or "buffer" value because it would only get misunderstood and/or abused, and likely would result in a far greater number of owners being stranded than currently. My estimate is that only a tiny percentage of all Model S owners have actually run out of energy and had to stop before reaching their next charging point. Of course those are the owners that a far more likely to post online about their "problem" than the vast majority who have never run out of battery.
Gas cars on basically empty give you no indication how much farther you can go. Ideally 2 miles of rated range should get you that far but in cold or up a hill maybe not. Don't count on any buffer.
This seems simply someone who was driving a little too fast for the situation. I've done it before and the range can disappear quickly.
This seems simply someone who was driving a little too fast for the situation. I've done it before and the range can disappear quickly.
The one accessed with the "trip" tab. As far as I can tell, it takes elevation and speed limits into consideration. It doesn't take wind or other atmospheric conditions into account.