Ontario to invest $20 million in stations to charge up electric cars

[jason.a]

My electrician just forwarded me this announcement from Petro-Canada.
http://www.suncountryhighway.com/en/Blog/Petro-Canada-Pilot-Project-in-Ontario

Five stations along the 401 isn't a lot but it's a good start and they're deploying the 80 amp SCH-100 chargers instead of lower capacity units.

 

[glenhurst]

December 21, 2015 12:11 PM Eastern Standard Time
NASHVILLE, Tenn. & WOODCLIFF LAKE, N.J.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Nissan and BMW are joining forces to offer public fast charging at 120 locations across 19 states in an effort to support Nissan LEAF and BMW i3 customers and to promote increased adoption of electric vehicles (EVs) nationwide.

Nissan and BMW partner to deploy dual fast chargers across the U.S. to benefit electric vehicle drivers | Business Wire

Bravo Nissan/BMW...why don't they do the same in Ontario?

At the top of the article, it says "A total of 120 dual-port 50kW fast-charging stations have been installed..." and the rest of the article just talks about their partnership. So, will there actually be any new chargers, or are they just making an announcement about the chargers that already exist? I'm a bit dubious, as I'm generally unimpressed with the EV efforts of car companies other than Tesla.

 

[Doug_G]

My electrician just forwarded me this announcement from Petro-Canada.
http://www.suncountryhighway.com/en/Blog/Petro-Canada-Pilot-Project-in-Ontario

Five stations along the 401 isn't a lot but it's a good start and they're deploying the 80 amp SCH-100 chargers instead of lower capacity units.

I would have been HUGE if Tesla hadn't already deployed Superchargers all down the 401. Now it's merely a good fallback in case of Supercharger failure.

Well okay it could be handy if I want to take my Roadster to Southern Ontario.

 

[SmartElectric]

My electrician just forwarded me this announcement from Petro-Canada.
http://www.suncountryhighway.com/en/Blog/Petro-Canada-Pilot-Project-in-Ontario

Five stations along the 401 isn't a lot but it's a good start and they're deploying the 80 amp SCH-100 chargers instead of lower capacity units.

I added two of them (closest to me) to plugshare today. Great locations.
The Milton location is very nice for round trips from Toronto to Waterloo and back on the coldest winter days.

At 80 amps, you can have a burger at A&W (next to the charger) and add 70 km of range, enough to make round trip comfortably without needing to drive slow.

 

[Ktowntslafan]

My electrician just forwarded me this announcement from Petro-Canada.
http://www.suncountryhighway.com/en/Blog/Petro-Canada-Pilot-Project-in-Ontario

Five stations along the 401 isn't a lot but it's a good start and they're deploying the 80 amp SCH-100 chargers instead of lower capacity units.

I think this is pretty big news personally. Good on Petro Can...not sure what their end game is, but good on them. Happy to see that Ktown made the cut again.

- - - Updated - - -

At the top of the article, it says "A total of 120 dual-port 50kW fast-charging stations have been installed..." and the rest of the article just talks about their partnership. So, will there actually be any new chargers, or are they just making an announcement about the chargers that already exist? I'm a bit dubious, as I'm generally unimpressed with the EV efforts of car companies other than Tesla.

I think you might be on to something...

 

[RiverBrick]

Electric Vehicle Chargers Ontario (EVCO) Program Guide

Details are out. The targeted locations appear very good. I know we have business owners and landlords on the forum. Get your applications in. Funding of up to 100% for purchase and installation costs is available. In some cases they will even pick up operating costs for two years.


40-47 kW isn't Supercharging, but for certain routes like Ottawa -- Thunder Bay, it will likely be the fastest charging option for long time.
One odd requirement is 480V input for the DCQC. Why rule out units that accept 600V or 208V? (The AddEnergie model in service in Markham and in 28 Quebec locations falls in the latter category. )

 

[Doug_G]

Just a quick skim - looks promising. They require a minimum 200V 40A, so 8 kW - that's actually a BIG improvement on all those 30A chargers out there. And it also covers Level 3 stations - requiring at least one Combo plug and one ChaDeMo plug.

 

[RiverBrick]

... They require a minimum 200V 40A, so 8 kW - that's actually a BIG improvement on all those 30A chargers out there...

They word it as 40A input to the station, so they might just be talking about 30A charging on 40A circuits.

 

[Doug_G]

They word it as 40A input to the station, so they might just be talking about 30A charging on 40A circuits.

Oh, okay. I did say I skimmed it quickly.

 

[Peter_M]

I'm happy to see that the primary goal of the program is Level 3 EVSEs along highways, and therefore the majority of the money will go to that. I don't think charging at workplaces, businesses or residences needs government support as much, since those property owners have a motivation to install charging, to keep their EV-driving customers/employees/residents happy. That motivation may be fairly small now, but it will grow as EV adoption takes hold. High-speed charging along highways needs the support because the business owners at roadside stops don't get as much business from people making short stops and they would be motivated to make the charging slower to keep their customers around for longer.

So so overall it looks great. We'll see if $20M is enough to provide good coverage and if the network will really get installed by March 2017.

If if this works out well, it could be a model for adding Level 3 charging all along the Trans-Canada Highway.

 

[green1]

I think this is pretty big news personally. Good on Petro Can...not sure what their end game is, but good on them. Happy to see that Ktown made the cut again.

The optimist in me says that their end game is to stay relevant in the future when they know that dispensing gasoline won't be big. Gas stations don't make most of their money from fuel, but it is the draw to get people in to the location, I don't think they'd object to becoming DCQC stations instead of gas stations if they thought it was the winning business model, it's just getting them to realize this is the future that's the real challenge.

 

[rapoport3a]

The CHAdeMo and CCS requirement is good, as long as operators don't run L3s at 49 amps, like PowerStream's north of Toronto. (I assume they dialled it down, because there's no apparent plan to change it. Can anyone contradict that?)

 

[hingisfan]

Here's the Napanee Petro Can station...

 

[Ktowntslafan]

Why not available in Ontario? This is what needs to be fixed for charger spend to be effective. EV's need to be available and competitively priced to be adopted. Chargers are secondary.

http://leasehackr.com/blog/2015/12/24/californians-e-golf-117-month-0-down

http://leasehackr.com/blog/2015/12/...t-now-fiat-500e-for-76month-0-down-california

 

[SmartElectric]

Why not available in Ontario? This is what needs to be fixed for charger spend to be effective. EV's need to be available and competitively priced to be adopted

The EV lease deals in California cannot be matched without matching the regulatory (aka "CARB" / California Air Resources Board) and subsidies ($2500 State, $7500 Federal) in that locale.

Ontario has reasonably matched the subsidy with an $8500 (max) rebate that works to reduce cost of EV's offered for sale:
Ex : My 2013 Smart ED at $19K total after taxes (and rebate) is a great little EV for a reasonable price.

However, manufacturers do not have to offer their EV's to Ontario customers, as there is no requirement in Ontario to have a fleet wide efficiency, and no requirement to sell a minimum number of zero emissions vehicles (ZEV) as is required by government (CARB) mandates. This is precisely why the EV lease deals in California beat Ontario, namely, the manufacturer must sell a certain number of ZEV to meet CARB mandates.

Details on CARB & ZEV mandates:
History of Californias Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) Program | Union of Concerned Scientists

 

[Ktowntslafan]

The EV lease deals in California cannot be matched without matching the regulatory (aka "CARB" / California Air Resources Board) and subsidies ($2500 State, $7500 Federal) in that locale.

Ontario has reasonably matched the subsidy with an $8500 (max) rebate that works to reduce cost of EV's offered for sale:
Ex : My 2013 Smart ED at $19K total after taxes (and rebate) is a great little EV for a reasonable price.

However, manufacturers do not have to offer their EV's to Ontario customers, as there is no requirement in Ontario to have a fleet wide efficiency, and no requirement to sell a minimum number of zero emissions vehicles (ZEV) as is required by government (CARB) mandates. This is precisely why the EV lease deals in California beat Ontario, namely, the manufacturer must sell a certain number of ZEV to meet CARB mandates.

Details on CARB & ZEV mandates:
History of Californias Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) Program | Union of Concerned Scientists

I think you are 100% correct.

Not surprisingly, the CMVA (read: Big Auto lobby) disagrees with you and I:


"However, policies that force consumer technology purchase decisions, like a ZEV mandate, impact the selection and availability of vehicles for sale in Quebec, without first considering and addressing Quebecers' automotive needs, driving range, pocketbook, or access to re-charging at work, to get to work or wherever else they need to travel."

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/canadian-vehicle-manufacturers-react-to-todays-quebec-plan-of-action-on-transportation-electrification-announcement-531738401.html

Can we outlaw lobbying already? Govern for the will of the people and to protect the environment-not special interest groups...enough already.

It's really quite ridiculous.

 

[green1]

The difference is that Ontario is a small enough market the auto makers can just say "screw it" and pull out of, California not so much. If you say the compliance cats have to be available, they might do that, but mandate sales levels detracting from their higher profit margin ICE vehicles and there's a real risk they'll cut and run.

 

[Ktowntslafan]

The difference is that Ontario is a small enough market the auto makers can just say "screw it" and pull out of, California not so much. If you say the compliance cats have to be available, they might do that, but mandate sales levels detracting from their higher profit margin ICE vehicles and there's a real risk they'll cut and run.

Respect. However, we are post COP21 now. The balance of power has shifted. Governments are calling the shots, together -within Canada and across the globe. There's no more time for BS a la VW. It's time to work together for our kids and our planet.

 

[Ktowntslafan]

The difference is that Ontario is a small enough market the auto makers can just say "screw it" and pull out of, California not so much. If you say the compliance cats have to be available, they might do that, but mandate sales levels detracting from their higher profit margin ICE vehicles and there's a real risk they'll cut and run.

Population:

Norway=5M
Ontario=13M

No EV's pulling out of Norway:

http://evroadmapconference.com/program/presentations15/OlaElvestuen.pdf

 

[mknox]

Population:

Norway=5M
Ontario=13M

Norway is an anomaly... a good one but an anomaly nonetheless. The population of just the Greater Toronto Area is more than all of Norway.