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Nissan Leaf
- Thread starter efusco
- Start date
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
I think a LEAF with a bigger pack and better range will end up costing the same as a (barebones) Gen III might 3-4 years from now...
Really? I would think because of where the price is now, and that battery price should be going down, it would still be less than a Gen III. It might not have 200 miles of range, but it would still have more than today.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Tesla already has a lead on pack energy density and costs, so unless Nissan does something to jump ahead they probably won't be able to compete on costs per mile. So yes, they may have a cheaper car with less range, and probably less performance and weaker styling. Hopefully they'll do a major redesign, or maybe release another model with better styling. If they put out something like the ESFlow with 150 miles of range, more durable battery technology, and sub 7 second performance under $30K they might steal some G3 sales, I could be one of them, especially if they have it on sale first.
ESFlow? Appears to be a big car, built for 6ft 4in guys to slip into. Retro Jag look. I would actually fear seeing one in real life. Needs to be photo'd parked next to a Roadster for reality test. How long could you stand having this beast in your yard?
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I don't know why you think is a large vehicle, it's a two door sports car. It's been the desktop image for my computer ever since I first saw it, so I could stand it quite well thank you :biggrin:
Unless she's a giant the car doesn't look that big:
Unless she's a giant the car doesn't look that big:
EVNow
Well-Known Member
By Gen 3's time - I expect a 150 mile Leaf around $25k. They definitely have the technology (upcoming NMC they have been working on for years), willingness, manufacturing capacity and deep pockets to do it. I think those who ignore Nissan as a competitor for Gen 3 are underestimating Ghosn.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
Agree. Much as the ROTEC documentary showed, Ghosn is indeed a visionary; he's also aiming for self-driving cars across the Nissan fleet by 2020. He once called Tesla a very niche player though
I also agree. I've always loved the look of the LEAF compared to all others before I found out about Tesla. So if I can't get a Gen III, what's 50 less miles? I want to be able to drive an EV. And somewhere around 150 is plenty for my daily commuting life.
I think Ghosn is the next best person after Elon to move the EV transition forward.
I think it'd be great if the Leaf improved to be a real competitor. It'd help validate the strength of EVs in general and Tesla in particular, possibly providing a multiplicative effect on sales which would help Tesla. I find the LEAF hideously ugly personally, but that's part of why having a better LEAF would be good as it helps add to the choices available in the market to suit more types of folks.
The Leaf was on the road before the Model S started to break records and EV misconceptions through the auto industry. Ghosn is serious and whatever is next from Nissan will be positioned squarely against Tesla. By that I mean they will try for the unserverd EV market or they will aim at the MS -though probably not right away. There's still plenty of room out there.
Rifleman
Now owns 2 Model S's!!!
I actually completely agree with this. A 150 mile leaf under 30k would sell well. If they could make the car a little better looking, it would sell even better. Nissan is currently the only other manufacturer who could potentially beat tesla to market with a "mass market" electric car. (I define mass market as 120+ mile range, <$30,000 price, and decent looks)
That sounds reasonable, but I think it will be a choice between a 150 mile Leaf at 25K and a 200 mile Gen III with better acceleration, handling and looks for 35K. They will still appeal to a somewhat different audience.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Leaf has odd styling and definitely not something that appeals to mainstream US buyers.
I doubt they will completely change the styling though. They might tweak the styling a bit - or launch a different model to tap the conservative looks market.
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Right. What will directly compete with Gen 3 would be the Infiniti LE - that would be an interesting fight if Infiniti (and Tesla) both deliver.
That makes sense, but what does everyone predict will happen if that's the case? I think Nissan beats in sales at that point. I'm all for Tesla having the better sales, I am an investor, but I could see Nissan beating them. More people could save on gas and get basically the same amount of miles for less. Now there would always be those few that want style over price, but for the "masses", I bet it's Nissan.
Only if Nissan improves the drivetrain and handling for the Infiniti. Their original (probably scrapped) design had basically the same acceleration as the Leaf, which is not competitive when you go into the premium car space. I haven't seen any major car manufacturers realize that yet (see Lexus CT200H or Cadillac ELR). Even BMW hasn't chosen to release a car that would appeal to their normal performance audience.
DuncanWatson
Member
Infiniti seems not to be interested. I suspect we will see a Nissan Leaf at 150+miles and 25k 2013 dollars before we see an Infiniti EV. The Leaf is quite attractive to lots of people. If Tesla ignores the real mass market oppertunities it will suffer. I know that I would buy a $25k Leaf with 150+ mile range and fast charging. If Nissan beats the GenIII to market with that kind of vehicle they will take a giant chunk of the EV market.
If the GenIII tries to be BMW or Infiniti then it will never be a big part of the market. I find the people who want Tesla to remain its cache as a luxury manufacturer short sighted.
If the GenIII tries to be BMW or Infiniti then it will never be a big part of the market. I find the people who want Tesla to remain its cache as a luxury manufacturer short sighted.
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