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Newbie Options Trading

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Here in Canada we have been given a gift called the TFSA (Tax Free Savings Account). All gains are tax free and can be withdrawn at any time without penalty. Only caveat is that deposits are limited, this year the cap was 36k (cumulative over the years). Each year they add 5.5k to the limit ie in January will be up to 41.5k.

Between a couple, that's over 70k of contribution room with unlimited tax free gains that can be withdrawn at anytime, quite awesome.
 
Here in Canada we have been given a gift called the TFSA (Tax Free Savings Account). All gains are tax free and can be withdrawn at any time without penalty. Only caveat is that deposits are limited, this year the cap was 36k (cumulative over the years). Each year they add 5.5k to the limit ie in January will be up to 41.5k.

Between a couple, that's over 70k of contribution room with unlimited tax free gains that can be withdrawn at anytime, quite awesome.

Packing my bags and moving to Canada.:wink:
 
Thanks for sharing Theshadows.

When reading other people's posts and trading experiences, it becomes apparent that some trading experiences are quite common. It is desirable to get these humbling experiences sooner rather than later:biggrin: as it happens on a smaller amount and hurts less.

My thinking is that "practice makes perfect", even in options trading. Good on you for doing so much work, it will pay off eventually.

I am curious about lodging tax return, specifically the issue of having to report numerous options trades in a tax year. Do people just report one line p&l on numerous trades or is reporting done line by line, for each trade. When I look at my yearly report from my broker, I find it quite difficult to discern separate options trades, as many of them involved rolling. It is much easier to just report summary only, if acceptable.

The reports I get has everything broken down for like kind trades, short term, long term, and some other info too. I look over it then hand the book over to my account. He looks over everything then does his magic.

A good accountant is worth their fees. When I started trading I asked him if he had other active option traders. I then asked if I could speak with them for a reference. I talked to two of his customers and they were pleased with his work so I went with him. For a good accountant don't expect to pay anything less than $2000/year just to file your taxes. If you are using online or some diy tax software to file your taxes that have option trades in them, good luck.
 
FWIW for me, here in Norway, I was able to get away with submitting a yearly summary of all my trades and a total P&L at the end. We don't have short term/long term capital gains tax though, only one flat capital gains tax (28%) so that makes it easier I guess. What's it like in Australia?

We have short (less than 12 mnths) and long term capital gains here, long term is simply 50% of short term. Both are taxed at marginal rate in my personal trading account, and at 15% in my super account. Super account is retirements savings account, with highly regulated contributions, capped at $35,000/year.

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The reports I get has everything broken down for like kind trades, short term, long term, and some other info too. I look over it then hand the book over to my account. He looks over everything then does his magic.

A good accountant is worth their fees. When I started trading I asked him if he had other active option traders. I then asked if I could speak with them for a reference. I talked to two of his customers and they were pleased with his work so I went with him. For a good accountant don't expect to pay anything less than $2000/year just to file your taxes. If you are using online or some diy tax software to file your taxes that have option trades in them, good luck.

Australia is so small, not many people trade options, time zone is very prohibitive for options trading, so there are even fewer tax accountants that would be familiar with the issues to the extent that would be ok with me.

My search for a local tax accountant is a hit and miss.
 
FWIW for me, here in Norway, I was able to get away with submitting a yearly summary of all my trades and a total P&L at the end. We don't have short term/long term capital gains tax though, only one flat capital gains tax (28%) so that makes it easier I guess. What's it like in Australia?

I have to correct you, as the tax in Norway on capital gains is 27% in 2014 :)
 
Wow, am I getting a lesson in a downside of weeklies......

Hoping that lesson didn't cost you thousands of $$$. It's quite obvious from the price action so far this week that we'll close between $247.50 and $250 tomorrow.

Since the price was already where "they" wanted it the spin doctors passed on the opportunity to depress the stock further by spinning the drive unit replacement story.
 
Hoping that lesson didn't cost you thousands of $$$. It's quite obvious from the price action so far this week that we'll close between $247.50 and $250 tomorrow.

Since the price was already where "they" wanted it the spin doctors passed on the opportunity to depress the stock further by spinning the drive unit replacement story.

What are your thoughts on purchasing some $245s-$250s if we drop down to $240 right after opening?
 
What are your thoughts on purchasing some $245s-$250s if we drop down to $240 right after opening?

I believe the stock will trade relatively flat tomorrow and close between 247.50 and 250 barring any major events. Next week I think the pressure downwards will lighten and we will move up again toward 260 or higher. So I don't see 240 in the near future.

Please make up your own mind and don't trade on my ramblings though :)
 
I believe the stock will trade relatively flat tomorrow and close between 247.50 and 250 barring any major events. Next week I think the pressure downwards will lighten and we will move up again toward 260 or higher. So I don't see 240 in the near future.

Please make up your own mind and don't trade on my ramblings though :)

Hm......relatively good jump in late after hours. Let's see if the Max Pain conspiracy is true. Further, what's to say that the max pain won't limit next week's price too? I first heard about max pain this week from you guys, so now I wonder how far reaching it is and has been.

Remember that next week NASDAQ is closed on the 27th.
 
Hm......relatively good jump in late after hours. Let's see if the Max Pain conspiracy is true. Further, what's to say that the max pain won't limit next week's price too? I first heard about max pain this week from you guys, so now I wonder how far reaching it is and has been.

Remember that next week NASDAQ is closed on the 27th.

It isn't an exact science... The only thing you can be sure about is that you can't be sure about anything... That is why many people associate options trading with gambling... because there are a lot of uncertainties and things that can mess that up.

That being said, quarterly and monthly expiration dates would have a more likelihood of manipulation since there is a LOT more money being staked on those option chains.

What I have seen happen in the recent past, when we threw around this "fixed price" theory, was that they kept it flat up until Thursday and then released the stock to let it do its thing. But that was the week of the D announcement and there was so much unknowns about how that would go down and the affect it would have on the market that they likely knew they weren't going to be able to hold the price through the event and bailed on their positions.

Today what is going to mess with the theory is the Macro events going on that is raising all boats on the water. It is very hard for these guys to manipulate a decently expensive stock when too many people start jumping in and trading. If you will notice Wed when the price dropped they used moderate volume to dump the stock down and then it tapered off in the afternoon. Not all of that volume on Wed would have been from the people manipulating the stock, but rather them using the power of FUD and a gap down to scare more people into piling on the sell-train, then they just held enough pressure through the day to keep it down. On Thurs we had lower than average volume (by a decent amount) which makes it a lot easier to manipulate the price, because there are fewer buyers it won't take much selling to keep the price down.

Anyway, that is how I see the tea leaves for what happened, why it happened, and what to expect for today. As for how to trade this? Well, I couldn't tell you, because both things were not really something that you could "forsee". At best, what you could have done, is pay attention to the max pain mark on Monday, have bought some puts, and then as soon as we hit 246 something sold them off. The negative news story would have been the needed catalyst to drive the price down, but you would have expected it to be FUD manipulation. Once it hit 246 assuming that whatever the news story was you would have looked to counter that with a new play that would re correct for the FUD as the market pulls the price back where it should be.

If you want to play around with that theory, I recommend we bring this up again in December the week before the core December options expire because that will be both the Monthly AND Quarterly option expirations. Your odds are more in your favor to see this pan out again.
 
I'm fairly convinced the stock price is being manipulated this week. I think next month I'll be willing to throw a few nickels at this theory and see how it plays out. I've noticed this before but didn't put much thought into it, might as well try to profit off of it if the opportunity is there. I wouldn't put a big wager on it however. Wish I had thought about it before selling that put, earlier in the week, but I did it with the idea to get shares a few bucks cheaper so nothing lost that I won't make up eventually.
 
The latest options data (yesterday's close) makes it almost even between $245 and $247.50 as the max pain strike.

Also, what I would do as a market maker is depress the price all day and let people close out their options at a loss and then in the last hour of trading start buying back stock (cheaper than it was sold in the last few days) profiting off of that while at the same time in advance having bought back calls/selling puts and let the stock go up in the last hour of trading, profiting from that as well.
 
Seems like I should know this by now, but I don't and I couldn't find an answer online. Well, not one I understood anyway.

What happens if if you've bought a put and it ends ITM, but you don't own the underlying stock? It's academic as I sold my TSLA put earlier this morning right after the big dive...should have held on I guess, but I wasn't sure I'd get back to my computer before end of day and I wasn't sure of the answer to this question.
 
Seems like I should know this by now, but I don't and I couldn't find an answer online. Well, not one I understood anyway.

What happens if if you've bought a put and it ends ITM, but you don't own the underlying stock? It's academic as I sold my TSLA put earlier this morning right after the big dive...should have held on I guess, but I wasn't sure I'd get back to my computer before end of day and I wasn't sure of the answer to this question.
Good thing you sold them then, because if they had expired in the money, you would be in the possession of a right that you couldn't exercise. You'd have the right to sell shares at the higher price, but since you don't have the shares... you'd have left money on the table.

The same happens if you have ITM calls; if you don't have the money to purchase the shares on expiry, tough luck.