@googleiscoul I doubt that Nav Integration is easier than rain-sensing wipers, and we've been without those for six months now.
So, don't be holding your breath.
So, don't be holding your breath.
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Notably, this functionality, as described, is a significant step up over AP1(Musk noted that it's not possible on AP1 hardware).
That said, outside of just refinement, what are you all that eager for in AP1 functionality? From my test drive, I could take or leave perpendicular parking unless it's tremendously improved, and the only other things are some aesthetic displays on the dash(identifying car types and actually displaying cars in adjascent lanes) and auto-wipers.
NerdUno
Member
I'm puzzled by Tesla's continuing use of the "subject to regulatory approval" language. That must not be such a big deal if Cadillac is already announcing a hands-free vehicle for interstates beginning this fall. Their cars use the same highways and are subject to the same "regulations" unless I've missed something. Didn't see those weasel words in Cadillac's announcement. Of course, we all know that Tesla had barely started coding when all of their pie-in-the-sky promises were being made, i.e. the shortcomings we all are enjoying with our AP2 vehicles had little or nothing to do with regulatory hurdles.
Emphasis added. Doing hands-free is both easier and less strictly regulated than doing general hands free everywhere. Hence why what's described above is an announced feature for EAP, rather than requiring the FSD package.
Their hands-free system still uses a camera to ensure you are paying attention to the road (e.g. looking at the road), so they are simply using a different manner of enforcing driver's attentiveness and ability to take over if needed.
But still, that's a system that's been announced and then delayed for two years now allegedly due to "regulatory" issues. Maybe we should see it on the market and how it really behaves before speculating?
Audi's totally lost the "fool me once" game. They've been teasing videos of a piloted driving A7 for maybe 5 years at this point, and every time a car comes out, we find that it's loaded with restrictions. None of them even stop for more than 3 seconds before requiring you to tap the gas.
There are a lot of CEOs who are doing "new stuff that no one has ever done before", yet none exhibit the same level of verbal diarrhea as Musk.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Uh, the Cadillac system was delayed for years because of regulator issues (NHTSA had to approve their driver attention system). Tesla can come up with similar issues, thus the disclaimer.
Again, a lot of this stuff happens behind the scene. A lot of casual observers thing it is easy to just release similar features with no regulatory procedures. Again, I point to the Hotz example (one of the few instances the process is seen in public eyes).
George Hotz cancels self-driving car product after US regulator asks questions
Musk is another level though. I can't think of another company where the stock would fall 75% if something unfortunate happened to the CEO. Is that fair to say?
NerdUno
Member
Let Elon go to sleep during his cross-country hands-free trip to New York, and it may happen sooner than you think.
Let's be real if we tried to do a valuation
Musk vs Bezos
Musk vs Cook
Musk vs Zuckerburg
Musk vs Netflix CEO (Do you even know his name? I would have to Google it)
Musk vs Larry Page / Sergey Brin
I don't think its even debatable which company falls the hardest when losing their flagship CEO.
Alex D
Member
While I understand some people's frustration here, this is what I don't understand.
I'm putting myself into the position of being someone who ordered the car let's say last year November. It was announced that MobilEye and Tesla are going separate ways and Tesla is now using new hardware and their own, in development software for AP. It's also stated what they're hoping for on the design studio page, which is hopefully full parity to AP1 by the end of December and hopefully FSDC by the end of 2017, DEPENDING on regulatory approval.
With all this info given, I would have never opted in for FSDC and 80% likely would have opted in for EAP, but even that I would have been thinking about for a while. ESPECIALLY with a lease!
Everyone knows that Elon is over promising consistently, not maliciously, but to "set himself a goal, that clearly isn't reasonable, but will enable them to work 24/7 to achieve the goal and in the long run would enable the feature that was promised in record time". Definitely not within the promised time frame, but still as fast as possible.
When you read between the lines, that is exactly where we are right now and exactly what I would have expected. You need to consider how long it took MobilEye to even get to AP1 and that Tesla pretty much had to start from scratch (not really, but you know what I mean) and start over. So for almost a year developing, they got pretty far and keep exceeding as fast and as far as they can.
If you were not seeing this coming when ordering the first AP2 cars, then you were either dreaming the dream or not fully informed about your buying decision. Which both surprises me, spending that much money on a car. (Yeah, go ahead and give me that dislike, but you know I'm right somewhere deep down.)
I think I got in just at the right time, when I ordered my MS last year March, 31st. I waited out until March, 31st because I heard rumors of something new coming and also a price increase. So I figured if I lock in right at that time, I might be able to make changes to my order just in time.
I was updated for free to the refresh, I got one of the first software limited 70D's that I can use just like a 75 (I can charge safely to 97% and have the same as 90% on the 75). And I got the new center console. I'm leasing for 3 years, so by the end of the lease, all this AP back and forth is hopefully mostly sorted out. Until then I enjoy my car and don't worry about all of it.
I'm putting myself into the position of being someone who ordered the car let's say last year November. It was announced that MobilEye and Tesla are going separate ways and Tesla is now using new hardware and their own, in development software for AP. It's also stated what they're hoping for on the design studio page, which is hopefully full parity to AP1 by the end of December and hopefully FSDC by the end of 2017, DEPENDING on regulatory approval.
With all this info given, I would have never opted in for FSDC and 80% likely would have opted in for EAP, but even that I would have been thinking about for a while. ESPECIALLY with a lease!
Everyone knows that Elon is over promising consistently, not maliciously, but to "set himself a goal, that clearly isn't reasonable, but will enable them to work 24/7 to achieve the goal and in the long run would enable the feature that was promised in record time". Definitely not within the promised time frame, but still as fast as possible.
When you read between the lines, that is exactly where we are right now and exactly what I would have expected. You need to consider how long it took MobilEye to even get to AP1 and that Tesla pretty much had to start from scratch (not really, but you know what I mean) and start over. So for almost a year developing, they got pretty far and keep exceeding as fast and as far as they can.
If you were not seeing this coming when ordering the first AP2 cars, then you were either dreaming the dream or not fully informed about your buying decision. Which both surprises me, spending that much money on a car. (Yeah, go ahead and give me that dislike, but you know I'm right somewhere deep down.)
I think I got in just at the right time, when I ordered my MS last year March, 31st. I waited out until March, 31st because I heard rumors of something new coming and also a price increase. So I figured if I lock in right at that time, I might be able to make changes to my order just in time.
I was updated for free to the refresh, I got one of the first software limited 70D's that I can use just like a 75 (I can charge safely to 97% and have the same as 90% on the 75). And I got the new center console. I'm leasing for 3 years, so by the end of the lease, all this AP back and forth is hopefully mostly sorted out. Until then I enjoy my car and don't worry about all of it.
@Alex D - While I agree with some points above, your reasoning doesn't apply to everything Tesla did wrong.
"With all this info given"
Why would I buy a car that could potentially have ghosting?
Why would I buy a car that could potentially come with misalignments?
Why would I buy a car with no FSD?
Why would I buy a car with doors that don't always work as expected?
"With all this info given"
Why would I buy a car that could potentially have ghosting?
Why would I buy a car that could potentially come with misalignments?
Why would I buy a car with no FSD?
Why would I buy a car with doors that don't always work as expected?
This is completely false, their system WEREN'T delayed because of regulatory issues and neither was Hotz. This part is completely fabricated.
Cruise Slip: Cadillac’s Semi-Autonomous Super Cruise Tech Won’t Arrive Until 2017
Supercruise delay since its inception had nothing to do with regulatory.
Infact there was reported issues about the camera being blinded and they struggled with that.
It was last delayed Jan 2016.
GM sent their first letter in March 2016 telling NHTSA about their system (this was after their latest delay already occuring because of technical problems).
NHTSA rebutted and had concerns about them activating the hazard lights.
NHTSA sent their first letter and concern november 2016.
Despite Concerns, Cadillac Presses Forward with Super Cruise Semi-Autonomous Tech
U.S. letter reveals details of GM self-driving vehicle system
heres the full letter
"You state that GM is developing a new adaptive cruise control system with lane following (which GM has referred to as Super Cruise) that controls steering, braking, and acceleration in certain freeway environments..."
16-1289 (GM hazard innovative) -- 28 Apr 16 rsy
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whitex
Well-Known Member
If you bought a Tesla, go look at your purchase agreement. It doesn't state a lot of things, like whether your car will have a steering wheel, air-bags, seat-belts, windshield or whether or not it will accelerate 0-60 in 5, 6 or maybe 100 seconds. Nor does it specify range, so if the car only goes 1 mile on a full charge, would you think there is no valid claim against Tesla because I the range was not promised in the purchase agreement? You can't possibly be serious saying what is in the purchase agreement constitutes the entire obligation Tesla.
This is again incorrect. Its like saying its great to have a hands free system that drives like a drunk driver, drives the opposite side of the road, tries to hit every barrier and divider, tries to ram the car infront of you, goes off the road edge, basically trying to kill you every mile.
But its bad to have a hands free system that stays in its lane, doesn't go in the opposite direct, doesn't drive into opposite traffic at intersections, doesn't try to kill you at roadabout, doesn't try to kill you at sharp curves or when it doesnt see any lanes.
theirs absolutely no difference from EAP driver assist regulations vs FSD driver assist regulations, they are all the same.
Mercedes coming drivepilot 4.5 for example has new features that lets it slow down and take a turn at an intersection aslong as its on the map and also handle roundabout.
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He's really become more salesman than CEO over the past couple of years. Tesla needs a real CEO to manage them through the future. Let him remain as "Chairman Emeritus" with a Tim Cook-type executive managing the day-to-day and Elon providing inspiration and vision.
I think it's fair to say that instead of playing a game of "what if I had bought a car in November," you should simply listen to the people who in fact did buy a car in November. Of course some people are bothered by things that don't bother other people. I'm pretty ambivalent about my trim pieces lining up perfectly, but I'm furious about the EAP deception. Other people went apoplectic about their trim alignment, but are ambivalent about the EAP delay.
Insulting other owners for not knowing not to believe Tesla -- rather than holding Tesla accountable for their lack of honesty -- frankly seems bizarre.
I really don't believe the stock price influences what EM has to say. He had an established pattern of schedule over-optimism long before the company went public!
I do believe that he sets optimistic goals in part to motivate his employees to achieve more. But I find with software that everyone's schedule predictions are always too optimistic.
When I'm estimating software development time, I work out my number and then multiply it by a factor. My typical factor for "good programmers" is 3X. The thing is, the variance is often larger than the mean. If you hit a major roadblock, say a mysterious and random bug that you can't readily replicate, you can spin your wheels for weeks on that one single problem. I once encountered a random crash in an aircraft navigation system that happened on average twice a week, and the only debugging tool I could use was a logic analyzer with a 1000 instruction buffer. The cause was particularly obscure, requiring a truly ludicrous sequence of timing coincidences, and it took a full two months to track down.
It may not seem like it from the outside sometimes, but Tesla does achieve an incredible amount in a very short period of time.
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