New UMC 14/50 limited to 32 amps... WHY?!

[TEG]

There's no reason a UMC couldn't be plugged into a properly wired 15-60,.

Does the North American spec UMC support 3-phase connections? I thought only the European charging equipment was designed for 3-phase...

 

[Rocky_H]

Does the North American spec UMC support 3-phase connections? I thought only the European charging equipment was designed for 3-phase...

No, it doesn't. I don't know what kind of hack would be required to be able to use a legit correctly wired 15-60, or if it's even possible.

 

[Rocky_H]

There's no reason a UMC couldn't be plugged into a properly wired 15-60

"No reason"? Well, two reasons come to mind:
1. Tesla doesn't make a plug for a 15-60, so you can't just plug it in, without building some other third party pigtail adapter to reroute wires to some other plug that Tesla does make.
2. The North American UMC can't use 3 phase, so the best you might be able to do is get one of the phases and ground and treat that as if it was a single phase by use of a separate pigtail as mentioned above.

 

[davewill]

"No reason"? Well, two reasons come to mind:
1. Tesla doesn't make a plug for a 15-60, so you can't just plug it in, without building some other third party pigtail adapter to reroute wires to some other plug that Tesla does make.
2. The North American UMC can't use 3 phase, so the best you might be able to do is get one of the phases and ground and treat that as if it was a single phase by use of a separate pigtail as mentioned above.

Of course you'd have to build an adapter. It would use TWO of the phases and ground to get either 208v or 240v at 60a.

 

[Rocky_H]

Of course you'd have to build an adapter. It would use TWO of the phases and ground to get either 208v or 240v at 60a.

Uh huh--exactly. And that's quite different than just "plugging in", as you originally suggested.

 

[davewill]

Uh huh--exactly. And that's quite different than just "plugging in", as you originally suggested.

If you say so.

Look, I said it could be plugged in and it can... and at better than the 120v which you said was the best you could do, I might add. I said nothing about "just" plugging it in, nor did I think I should elaborate on a subject that's now pulled this thread way off subject.

 

[Lloyd]

It is because some (many)14-50R's have been found to not have been installed perfectly, either improper torque and or improper wire! To demand a continuous maximum load from a less than perfect 14-50 caused them to de-rate the load to keep everyone safe.

 

[TEG]

^^^ That any many have somewhat worn out pins from repeated plug/unplug. Particularly at shared places like RV parks.

 

[yuhong]

One other common issue with RV parks is the breakers there, and it often takes 15 minutes or more before the issues are discovered.

 

[Rocky_H]

and at better than the 120v which you said was the best you could do, I might add.

Right--I did forget that's the regular way commercial buildings supply the 208V as a substitute for 240V.

 

[derkan]

Thanks! I didn’t realize the “corded” 40A charger didn’t have any other adapters.

so did they ever give you the corded, 40A-capable mobile connector? Or were you stuck with the downgraded 32A connector?
I have this issue now. First they lied to me and said no mobile connector can charge >32A. Then they lied and said the Gen2 32A connector is an upgrade over my Gen1 40A connector. Then they couldn't explain the price difference. Then they said by policy they will not replace a Gen1 connector with a corded mobile connector under warranty, because the corded MC is after all an "upgrade". Why? Because new cars come with the 32A connector, that's why. Doesn't matter if your car is a 2016.

 

[Rocky_H]

Then they lied and said the Gen2 32A connector is an upgrade over my Gen1 40A connector.

Don't be like that. It's not a lie. It has things that are better and worse:

Gen2 does have temperature sensing circuits inside the plug heads that can detect if the outlet is getting hot. There had been a LOT of cases of people having melted outlets and melted plugs from loose wiring connections making the wiring at the outlet overheat from the old Gen1 plugs that were running at higher currents, but didn't have to safety systems to detect if something was going wrong there. So that is an improvement, and yes, is an "upgrade".

Gen2 has a lower maximum current capability. So yes, that part is worse and is a "downgrade".

So different people might look at that different ways, with slower charging speed but improved safety possibly being considered overall better.

 

[Cosmacelf]

The gen1 UMC has a bad flaw in that it defaults to drawing 40A from a NEMA 14-50 connector. As you well know, or should, there are many NEMA 14-50 receptacles wired to 40 amp breakers and using 40 amp wiring. Tesla should never have made the gen1 UMC draw 40A - it wasn't actually safe for the general public.

 

[Feathermerchan]

I read here that Canada banned Tesla sales for a time because many of their NEMA 14-50 were installed on 40A circuits and could catch fire if operated at 40A. So Tesla designed the new UMC to be limited to 32A. I have two of the Gen1 but have found I don't need to charge more than 30A. So that's what I have them limited to. Even #6 wire gets pretty warm at 40A.

 

[tpoltron]

I think experience taught everyone including Tesla that 32A charging was plenty while you slept so pushing to 40A was no longer worthwhile given the downsides and challenges mentioned above. Also a lot of older houses only have 100 or 125 Amp main panels and its a lot easier to squeeze a 40A breaker in than 50.

My Gen 1 UMC melted at the plug at 40A due to its design where the weight of the UMC pulled at right angles to the pins in the plug adapter, reducing their contact area and causing overheating with no temperature sensor. I hardwired a 14-50 plug on but use a Gen 2 UMC at 32A anyway.

 

[whitex]

Don't be like that. It's not a lie. It has things that are better and worse:

Gen2 does have temperature sensing circuits inside the plug heads that can detect if the outlet is getting hot. There had been a LOT of cases of people having melted outlets and melted plugs from loose wiring connections making the wiring at the outlet overheat from the old Gen1 plugs that were running at higher currents, but didn't have to safety systems to detect if something was going wrong there. So that is an improvement, and yes, is an "upgrade".

Gen2 has a lower maximum current capability. So yes, that part is worse and is a "downgrade".

So different people might look at that different ways, with slower charging speed but improved safety possibly being considered overall better.

I see your logic, cheaper, less capable, but has some safety features the old one didn't have, so it's an upgrade. Using that same logic, I assume you'd consider a 2014 Nissan Leaf SV an upgrade for your 2014 Model S85 - it is cheaper, less capable, but it has surround vision which is a safety feature (more people have scratched up their cars or even pulled their front bumpers off of their S than people melted the 40A plug), right?

 

[Rocky_H]

I see your logic, cheaper, less capable, but has some safety features the old one didn't have, so it's an upgrade. Using that same logic, I assume you'd consider a 2014 Nissan Leaf SV an upgrade for your 2014 Model S85 - it is cheaper, less capable, but it has surround vision which is a safety feature (more people have scratched up their cars or even pulled their front bumpers off of their S than people melted the 40A plug), right?

Don't assume what I think. People evaluate the differences in features, and people value some things higher than others. I've been driving cheap econo cars my whole life, so that surround view safety thing just isn't very important to me versus range. But for some people that might be different.

 

[whitex]

Don't assume what I think. People evaluate the differences in features, and people value some things higher than others. I've been driving cheap econo cars my whole life, so that surround view safety thing just isn't very important to me versus range. But for some people that might be different.

So what you're saying is there is no absolute definition of what is an upgrade or a downgrade. Anything could be considered an upgrade over anything, depending on one's priorities. So even a bicycle could be considered an upgrade to a P100D, for those who value open air the most and maybe live somewhere where there are no chargers.

 

[Rocky_H]

So what you're saying is there is no absolute definition of what is an upgrade or a downgrade. Anything could be considered an upgrade over anything, depending on one's priorities. So even a bicycle could be considered an upgrade to a P100D, for those who value open air the most and maybe live somewhere where there are no chargers.

Right. There are some people who value safety measures by far above absolutely everything else, which is the reason why Volvo continues to exist, despite being bad in looks, performance, etc.

So after some melting outlets and fires from the Gen 1 mobile connector not having a temperature sensor that could have stopped those, a lot of people might consider that a pretty significant improvement, regardless of what max current level it could do. So I was just calling out that it's not really accurate to say the Tesla sales person "lied". He wasn't knowingly being deceptive. That's a difference of what people value.

 

[whitex]

Right. There are some people who value safety measures by far above absolutely everything else, which is the reason why Volvo continues to exist, despite being bad in looks, performance, etc.

So after some melting outlets and fires from the Gen 1 mobile connector not having a temperature sensor that could have stopped those, a lot of people might consider that a pretty significant improvement, regardless of what max current level it could do. So I was just calling out that it's not really accurate to say the Tesla sales person "lied". He wasn't knowingly being deceptive. That's a difference of what people value.

So maybe service should have said "some people consider it an upgrade - has more safety features but lower performance", and present it as a customer choice, rather than saying "it's an upgrade", because it's also a downgrade in performance.