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NEMA 10-30R on a 20A Breaker?

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New 2020 Model 3 LR here. Perused the forum, and I can't find a decent answer to this. Hoping for some guidance.

I've got a house built in 1988. The garage has a NEMA 10-30R outlet that is original to the house build (assuming for garage power tools). It runs via 10G 3 wire (hot, neutral, ground) to a 20A breaker in the box.

1) From what I can find, 10G can handle 30A. the Outlet is rated at 30A. Why is there a 20A breaker installed? I'm assuming it's OK to have a 20A breaker, as it will pop before 30A is drawn, but makes little sence why they wouldn't install a 20A outlet.

I park the T outside in the driveway. the 20' mobile power cord does not reach the 10-30 outlet. The plug that comes with the charge cord is a 14-50.

2) I found a 10ft. 10-30 to 14-50 extension cord (Parkworld 885521) that will plug into my 10-30 wall outlet, and provide a 14-50 outlet for the Tesla mobile charger to plug into. I can limit the charge Amperage through the App to 18 A, below the 20A breaker amperage, and within all wiring limits in the circuit. Is this a suitable setup.

3) Is it an option to swap out the 20A breaker w/ a 30A. All wiring and outlets/plugs are rated for 30A.

4) Would it be better for me to get the 10-30 plug for the mobile charger, and plug into a 10-30 extension cord? I would still have to limit amperage to 18 A due to breaker size.

5) Last option is to wire in a 50A circuit w/ a 14-15 outlet to the driveway. Breaker box has the rating to handle this, however, I'd rather not incur the expense, as the 18A should meet my charging demand on most instances.


Thoughts?

Thanks so much. Having a Tesla is super fun so far...5 days in.
 
2) I found a 10ft. 10-30 to 14-50 extension cord (Parkworld 885521) that will plug into my 10-30 wall outlet, and provide a 14-50 outlet for the Tesla mobile charger to plug into. I can limit the charge Amperage through the App to 18 A, below the 20A breaker amperage, and within all wiring limits in the circuit. Is this a suitable setup.
Better to get a 10-30 or 14-30 plug end for the Mobile Connector so that it will set the amperage properly for a 10-30 (i.e. 24A on a 30A circuit). The extension cord to 14-50 will have the Mobile Connector set to 32A. See https://shop.tesla.com/product/gen-2-nema-adapters .

But that still leaves open the question of why there is a 20A breaker on that circuit that even 24A will trip. If the circuit has some reason why at most 20A is safe (as opposed to being 30A capable with the undersized 20A breaker that can then be changed to a 30A breaker), then change the outlet to a 6-20 and get the matching 6-20 plug adapter. The 6-20 plug adapter will set charging to 16A.
 
Better to get a 10-30 or 14-30 plug end for the Mobile Connector so that it will set the amperage properly for a 10-30 (i.e. 24A on a 30A circuit). The extension cord to 14-50 will have the Mobile Connector set to 32A. See https://shop.tesla.com/product/gen-2-nema-adapters .

But that still leaves open the question of why there is a 20A breaker on that circuit that even 24A will trip. If the circuit has some reason why at most 20A is safe (as opposed to being 30A capable with the undersized 20A breaker that can then be changed to a 30A breaker), then change the outlet to a 6-20 and get the matching 6-20 plug adapter. The 6-20 plug adapter will set charging to 16A.
Thanks. Figured it would be better to get the right adapter.

Totally fine understand why the 20A breaker is on the 30A circuit. From what I can tell from the 10feet of 10G 3 wire going from outlet to breaker, it should be fine on a 30A.
 
I found a 10ft. 10-30 to 14-50 extension cord

Don’t use extension cords, relocate the outlet.

can limit the charge Amperage through the App

The app (and car) is not meant to be used in ths way on a routine basis. You need the circuit and adaptor to be rated for the same voltage and amperage; it wll tell the car the maximum amperage it is allowed to draw.
 
First thing I would do is have an electrician run a load analysis on your panel. You want to know how much power can be safely supplied for EV charging, given the existing loads in the house (major appliances, HVAC, dryer, refrigerator(s), etc.). That will tell you if 24A is okay, given you want to stay with a 14-30 connection.

If you can't relocate the outlet, or position your car closer, I still would not use an AC extension cord as a permanent solution but instead use a NACS (Tesla) extension. They are pricey (>$200) but should be safer overall. The main objection to using an AC extension cord is that the Tesla NEMA adapters have a temperature sensor built in to monitor the wall outlet. If it sees a higher temperature than "normal", it will signal the mobile connector to throttle back on the power. When using an AC extension cord, you're moving that sensor away from the wall outlet and thus defeating this safety feature. Full disclosure: I myself carry a heavy duty 50' 14-50 extension in my car. It's for emergencies only; if and when I need a charge and there's nothing else in range. That extension won't do me any good at home as I don't think I have a 14-50 outlet anywhere in the house. I don't charge at home anyway.
 
3) Is it an option to swap out the 20A breaker w/ a 30A. All wiring and outlets/plugs are rated for 30A.

Yes. Presumably you are talking about a double pole breaker, right?

I would, however, unscrew the receptacle and make sure it still has 10 gauge wire at the receptacle end and nothing weird was done in between like connecting 10 gauge wire to 12 gauge wire (and thus that's why you have a 20A breaker). I would also make sure the receptacle screws are nice and tight (and same at breaker).

4) Would it be better for me to get the 10-30 plug for the mobile charger, and plug into a 10-30 extension cord? I would still have to limit amperage to 18 A due to breaker size.

Yeah, that'll work. If you got Tesla's 10-30 adapter, you'd be able to charge at 24A with a 30A breaker.

What I would do instead, BTW, is to extend that 10-30 circuit closer to the garage door so that you wouldn't need an extension cable. Just buy some 10 gauge MC cable from a big box store and run the cable along the baseboard or studs, or whatever you have to connect to a new box near the garage door.
 
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New 2020 Model 3 LR here. Perused the forum, and I can't find a decent answer to this. Hoping for some guidance.

I've got a house built in 1988. The garage has a NEMA 10-30R outlet that is original to the house build (assuming for garage power tools). It runs via 10G 3 wire (hot, neutral, ground) to a 20A breaker in the box...

How did you determine hot/neutral/ground? A NEMA 10 receptacle should have 2 hots + neutral. No safety ground...
 
Thanks for the responses all. Super fast responses!!

1. Yes. 20A Double pole breaker. Pic attached. (#14 breaker)
2. Outlet pic attached.
3. 10G wire was physically measured at outlet and breaker box awhile back. Wire diameter was ~.5mm, which is 10G.
4. R/B/W wire. I did not physically check loads on the wires...assumed hot, neut, gnd. But yeah, should be 2 loads and a neut.
5. Garage is drywalled, so trying to avoid running new lines, but can if extension cord option is dangerous.
 

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All right. There's something seriously weird going on here. @FlynHokia, it's like this.

First, for you continuing edification, here's the cheat sheet, straight from Wikipedia:
1710555530030.png

So, what you've got there is a NEMA10-30. That's a Type 10, 30 Ampere connector, fourth row down from the top, third from the left.

Next: As you're probably painfully aware, most houses in North America get split phase. That is, coming down from the power pole, a Neutral, then a Hot that we'll call Hot #1, and another Hot, that we'll call Hot #2.

If one gets out an AC voltmeter, the voltage between Hot #1 and Neutral is 120 VAC. The voltage between Hot #2 and Neutral is also 120 VAC. There's a sine wave of voltage on Hots #1 and #2; but the sines are inverted with respect to each other. So, when Hot #1 is going up in voltage, Hot #2 is going down.

If one puts an AC voltmeter between Hot #1 and Hot #2, you get 240 VAC.

Inside the breaker box, it's arranged so that the first slot is on one Hot bus bar, the next slot is on the next Hot bus bar, then back to the first, and so on. So, a double-wide breaker hits both bus bars, and that's how one gets a 240 VAC circuit.

Now, there's a problem with your setup. And it has to do with amperage. The National Electric Code says that a breaker, the socket to which the breaker is connected, and the wire all has to be able to carry the same rated current. That "-30" means that that's a 30A socket. If someone has a welder or something that says, "24A" or whatever, and it comes with a NEMA10-30 plug on the end of its cable, then it's going to draw 24A at times, at least as a transient. The blinking breaker has to match. That's always been code. I absolutely, positively, guaranteededly state to you that that installation has never seen an electrical inspector. And if it had, they had to bury the body, because the electrical inspector would have fainted dead away had he/she seen that.

There's a very solid reason for this: It's all about the heat. Power dissipated in a conductor, either a wire or the blinking contacts inside that socket, goes as current*current*resistance, where the resistance is the resistance of the metals in there. Further, when power gets dissipated in a metal, the metal gets hot. A NEMA10-30 is designed to provide a path for that heat energy to leave the socket and Go Somewhere Else, like the ambient environment. If it doesn't (say, one puts the connector in a thermally insulated box or something) it'll just keep on getting hotter until it either burns the insulation or melts.

OK: So, you've got a 20A breaker on a 30A socket. What's the problem with that? Won't the breaker just pop if one tries for the rated current?

This is called, "You Bet Your Life." A breaker is a save-the-day object. It's not supposed to operate unless it's saving the day. People who go for what are laughingly called Nuisance Trips are playing with, literally, fire here: Breakers are thermal mechanical devices that can wear out. If one wears out and it gets stuck open, then, in a way, that's not so bad. No current flows. But if it fails stuck closed, then you no longer have a safety device. Then, if a short occurs, it's house burning down time.

NEC rules say that, with a continuous heavy load (hello, Tesla!) the maximum amount of current on a circuit is 80% of the rated current. That's because when a circuit is running continuously, it's not like there's a sudden slug of, say, 35A when a motor starts up, and 15A thereafter; with a 30A circuit, one should have, when charging a Tesla, 24A (80% of 30A). Running more than that risks heating wires and connectors and such warmly enough that the insulation is degraded.

Now, you're saying you've got some 10 Ga wire in there. I don't know what kind of insulation said wire is running. (And, yeah, that matters, because the insulation is a heat conductor and various different insulations have different resistance to degradation with temperature.) But, a quick look gets you this link.

It says that 10Ga wire should suffice for 30A service. But, like I said, you don't have a 30A breaker in there.

So, this is why you bring an electrician in. Here's the deal: If you have, I dunno, 100A service to your house, there should be the Main Breaker at the top of your breaker panel, and it'll be labeled "100A".

Now, if you get out a pencil and add up the numbers of all the other breakers in that panel, you'll discover that all of the other breakers add up to more than 100A. So, what gives?

Answer: Nobody turns everything on at the same time with the max current on each circuit. There's a procedure for sizing a breaker panel, and it's called Load Analysis, it's NEC mandated, and electricians do this all the time. Your house and breaker panel may have Zero problems replacing that 20A duplex breaker you have in there with a 30A breaker, and the electrician will tell you that. If things are overloaded and you need a Bigger Panel, they'll tell you that, too.

You can get a NEMA10-30 adapter from Tesla, plug that into a Mobile Connector, and put that into the socket. The TMC is pre-programmed so if it sees a NEMA10-30 adapter, it'll tell the car to go ahead and draw 24A. Which You Do Not Want To Do until that breaker gets swapped out for the right sized one.

Finally: There's decent reasons that you might want to quit futzing around with this NEMA10-30 and go for a hard-wired connection, either with a Tesla Wall Connector (TWC) or similar from some other company:
  • If one follows modern code (which.. you might be grandfathered into..) one is supposed to have a GFCI circuit for something going into the garage. On that 240 VAC circuit. Such a beast is $150-$200. This could be a sticking point if you ever sell the house and some home inspector spots the problem.
  • A TMC costs around $220 or so. Tesla stopped shipping them with their new cars because, well, nobody was using them. So, you'd have to buy one of those things.
  • People have discovered, to their sorrow, that plugging in/unplugging NEMA14-50 and the like results in wear-out and melted connectors. Industrial grade sockets last longer but cost, like, $120 or so.
  • So: Total cost of an in-code car charging station is around $500 or so, just for the hardware.
  • My understanding is that a TWC is around $350 these days, has a GFCI built in, and it takes a really long time to wear one out. If you got another couple hundred to run a 60A circuit out to the garage, assuming the load analysis supports it, then it might be $600 or so for the whole business, giving you 48A charging of the car. Or any future BEVs you might end up with.
FWIW, at my place, the breaker box just so happened to be in the garage, there was a spot between the two garage doors for a TWC, so I paid the grand or so to put in the hardware. Back in 2018. Still working just fine.
 
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I understand that it SHOULD have a 30a breaker, but you see this kind of thing all the time. Especially 6-50 and 14-50 outlets with 30a breakers, as welders often have those plugs on them, but have a nameplate rating of 30a.

If I were the OP, assuming that the panel has the capacity, I'd do one of three things:

Change the breaker to 30a and...
1. get the 10-30 adapter for the mobile connector.
2. Change the outlet to a 6-30, marking the white neutral with green tape at each end and moving it from the neutral to the ground bar, if the panel has separate bars for that.
3. Install a wall connector, marking the white conduct as green like in 2..

In all cases, I'd extend the circuit to where I needed it in the garage. You can run conduit on the wall, using the existing outlet box as a junction box. In no circumstance would I use any kind of extension cord to do the job. For temporary purposes, an extension can get you by, but for daily charging, it's just asking for trouble at some point.

Unfortunately, Tesla doesn't sell a 6-30 adapter, so you'd have to buy one from a third party, or go with the wall connector. There's no real reason not to use the 10-30 outlet unless the inspector considers the breaker change and moving the outlet to be a new outlet and won't pass it as a grandfathered 10-30.
 
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Thanks for the responses all. Super fast responses!!

1. Yes. 20A Double pole breaker. Pic attached. (#14 breaker)
2. Outlet pic attached.
3. 10G wire was physically measured at outlet and breaker box awhile back. Wire diameter was ~.5mm, which is 10G.
4. R/B/W wire. I did not physically check loads on the wires...assumed hot, neut, gnd. But yeah, should be 2 loads and a neut.
5. Garage is drywalled, so trying to avoid running new lines, but can if extension cord option is dangerous.
If you don’t want to move the 10-30 receptacle, or install a new one (both of which I would recommend), then instead of getting a 10-30 extension cord, I’d get a Tesla extension cord, like this one:


Or this one:

 
All,

I have to say - I'm totally impressed with the knowledge, feedback, and help here! Looking forward to being part of this community!

As I suspected and based on the feedback, using this outlet is the easy but not necessarily proper way of doing this & it could end up unsafe.

Going to go w/ finding an installer, and getting a proper setup for a L2 charger on the house. Especially given that I can probably run the wire through conduit external to drywall. I did not feel like messing with gutting the wall & removing all of my custom built workbenches in the way to do so (no, they don't use the existing 10-30 outlet...it's just there from previous owner / original build).

I'll update as I get this done!
 
A minor amendment: it is valid to have a LABELED outlet below standard, eg, a 30 A receptacle with only 20 A available. It has to be labeled at 20 A only. My house had one of these, a 14-50 labeled as 30 A only.

My assumption is whoever put a 20 A breaker in knew that circuit could not support 30 A, but it was not labeled or the label fell off. I definitely would not upsize the breaker without authoritatively establishing it can really support 30 A.

Hidden reasons why the line may not support the full 30 A: too tight fit in conduit, too many cables in same drilled hole, undersized/overfilled junction box, etc.
 
A minor amendment: it is valid to have a LABELED outlet below standard, eg, a 30 A receptacle with only 20 A available. It has to be labeled at 20 A only. My house had one of these, a 14-50 labeled as 30 A only.

My assumption is whoever put a 20 A breaker in knew that circuit could not support 30 A, but it was not labeled or the label fell off. I definitely would not upsize the breaker without authoritatively establishing it can really support 30 A.

Hidden reasons why the line may not support the full 30 A: too tight fit in conduit, too many cables in same drilled hole, undersized/overfilled junction box, etc.
Actually: Those NEMA14-50's get abused, more or less, by electricians all the time. And, weirdly enough, this is approved by the NEC.

As it happens, if one looks at the NEMA chart, one will notice that there's 15A 120/240, connectors, as well as 20A, 30A. and 50A. But there's no 40A connectors.

This appears to be a quandary for electricians who have things like 40A electric stoves and the like to install. They can find 40A breakers, 40A wire, and have 40A loads, but no 40A connectors. So the NEC has an exception: For that kind of load, one is allowed to use a NEMA14-50. Presumably with it being labeled.

This is also considered to be at least one of the reasons that a Tesla Mobile Connector, with the NEMA14-50 adapter stuck onto it, maxes out at 32A. Tesla doesn't know if one has that NEMA14-50 plugged into a real, live NEMA14-50 socket backed by 50A wire and a 50A breaker, in which case it could draw 40A (80% of 50A, the rule for a heavy, continuous load) or if the adapter is plugged into a NEMA14-50 socket backed by 40A wire and a 40A breaker, in which case it should draw 32A max (80% or 40A). In the interests of safety, then (if nothing else) the TMC draws a max of 32A.

I would say that your house with a 30A label on a NEMA14-50 probably breaks code and, if you happen to have a TMC, could Light Your House On Fire. If it's really a 30A breaker there, no more than 24A (80% of 30A) should be drawn. It breaks code since, no kidding, there's 30A sockets out there (NEMA14-30, NEMA10-30, NEMA6-30) that wouldn't require a label or any special handling and, with the correct adapter on a TMC, won't draw more than 24A.

And there's Issues with using a TMC on a NEMA14-50 socket that's only good for 30A:
  1. First, a 30A breaker may or may not trip in the presence of a 32A load. These things have manufacturing variations which make them not wildly accurate. In that case, if the breaker doesn't pop, one runs the serious danger of the (cheaper, thinner, 30A wire) dissipating enough power to heat it up to the point where, eventually, the insulation degrades. And, come the day when it is degraded, it'll conduct, say, 10A on it's own, partially shorting through the degraded insulation. And that's how one gets house fires. I AM NOT KIDDING.
  2. Second, breakers are designed to be do-or-die articles, NOT REGULAR SWITCHES. Except for specialized type (magnetic), most breakers on the market are thermal, just like an old-tyme thermostat in one's house, and heating them up and letting them cool off excessively leads to metal fatigue. Get enough of that and the breaker will fail. (Note: Power dissipation in a wire or thermal element goes, nominally, as Current*Current*Resistance - so increasing the current means power dissipation goes up by the square of the current, which means that this is called "living on the edge"). If, after enough of this, the breaker fails open, well, that's relatively safe: One might have a busted breaker, but at least one knows it's broken. But there's the alternate possibility: The breaker fails short. In which case, one doesn't have a breaker any more. One has no safety device at all. Meaning that when (not IF) something bad happens in the car or the TMC, the first you'll know about it is when the house burns down. I AM NOT, AGAIN, KIDDING.
Now, it's perfectly possible to set the car, when it's in That Location, to Not Draw More Than 24A.
  • Are you betting that some $RANDOM software update or other isn't going to wipe that setting?
  • Are you betting that, years down the road, a new or friend's Tesla won't draw more current?
  • Are you betting that somebody won't make some stupid error and clear that setting?
And all this comes under the category of You Bet Your Life. Especially if it all Catches on Fire in the Dead Of Night. And, even if you're willing to Bet Your Life - how about the lives of your loved ones, or any guests?

Using the right sized connectors, wires, and breakers is a matter of belt and suspenders. You really don't want one failure to kill people. This is why electricians are licensed and Are Not Supposed To Make Mistakes Like This.

The "Electrician" who did the original work probably didn't feel like chugging out to the local electrical supply store to get a properly sized socket when he/she had a NEMA14-50 in the truck. And probably didn't feel like changing out the plug on whatever gear that socket was for. And putting those labels on a NEMA14-50 for 40A circuits (which Tesla has covered, see above) was probably second nature.. so why not just label it 30A? And if that 30A circuit stayed plugged in for All Time, who would care?

I posit that You Should. Change out that socket for one with the right default amperage and stop playing with your and your loved ones lives.