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Quotes literally out of the trial brief I read to the Judge in court and handed to her:
- "Purchase and Sale Agreement: while sold as-is, such contract does not permit Seller to fail to disclose defects he or his agent/contractors were aware of."
- There is a "duty to disclose the defects to a purchaser if such defects might materially affect the value of the property."
- "Unless the Buyer's reliance on such information is completely irrational or 'preposterous,' a buyer is entitled to rely on the representations of the other party and on the representations of the other party's agent without making an independent investigation or verification to discover the falsity of the representation."
- "The knowledge required to impose the duty on the property owner to give proper notice may be actual or constructive. An owner is charged with constructive knowledge of defective work whenever the owner knows of any facts that would prompt a prudent person to inquire. In such cases, the owner is deemed to know all matters that a diligent inquiry would have disclosed. This is the Seller’s burden, not the Buyer’s."
- "Seller admittedly knew or was imputed to know of many of the defects because they were disclosed in the inspection report he and his agent prepared. Such facts generated an affirmative duty of inquiry and investigation on the Seller, as stated above, since the items were not immediately accessible to Buyer. Having such duty, Seller is deemed to know all matters that a diligent inquiry would have disclosed, and Seller cannot negate such duty by claiming that Buyer should have conducted his own investigation."
- "An owner who hires others to do work on his property has the same degree of responsibility as if the owner had done the work personally. The owner's duties extend to the immediate purchaser of the property and to third persons who are within the area of foreseeable risk."
- "To the extent that owner is liable to a buyer for damages caused by negligent construction, the owner may seek indemnity from the contractor, engineer, or other person whose negligence caused the defect. Thus, the Defendant has recourse against his contractors, agents, and inspectors for any damages incurred in this action."
Proving that you didn't know about it isn't good enough. All the defendant has to do is show that you should have known, or that another party who is responsible to you should have known. Then you can in turn seek recourse from the other party.
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A vehicle VIN. That's pretty identifying when this is going though legal proceedings. I already asked the mods to remove all VIN information until the legal process is over
I only posted the screenshots as temp proof I'm not making this stuff up
I can post screenshots of what my vehicle was listed for on ebay to disprove your 75k theory but I think that's not worth my time. You don't listen.
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You posted the vin. Not me. It's right here.
My Tesla S P85d nightmare. I don't think I ever want another tesla ever again and want to get rid of this junk asap
If the car was registered then that company was the owner. I hope you win the lawsuit and get your money back. Don't let that lawyer be another money pit that you burn. Best of luck.
teslamotorsclub.com
Weird, its almost like you're lying about a bunch of stuff. Like posting a car for sale on 12-31-2021 with 19604 miles for $75,000. Oops.
@STS-134 I dont know what youre not getting about this brother. Real estate and motor vehicle laws are completely different. Might as well post school crosswalk laws as it has the same relevance. Not sure how many times I have to explain that.
I have absolutely no reason to lie about that. And it sounds like you don't understand how ebay works. The buy it now thing should always be higher than a reasonable price when it's accepting offers or in an auction. Auction starting prices are a list price that's different from a buy it now aka max price. If it was a buy it now for 75k that doesn't mean I would only accept 75k. Buy it now is a max acceptance price, not a list price
I'm not making stuff up and I'm not posting more screenshots of stuff that could get me into legal trouble just to prove myself to a troll who will never believe me anyways.
Quit harassing me. Go spend your time on something else.
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trayloader
Member
Give it a rest @Pandas752
this leads nowhere and I´m almost inclined to use the work gaslighting....
this leads nowhere and I´m almost inclined to use the work gaslighting....
The more you personally attack me, the more I'm going to expose you. By the way, I see you're in cuyahoga falls, feel free to reach out as we're in Cleveland if you need help or have any further questions.
The lies just keep coming.
Attached is a picture of your ebay auction on January 9th, with a starting bid of 66k, and a buy it now of $75,000. Auction link:
We see your edited posts of "I've never listed it for $75,000. That is a complete lie!" Stop lying.
The statement above and below was posted January 27th, 2022.
You posted this car for $65,000 on ebay January 31st, 2022.
Auction link: 2015 Tesla Model S | eBay
In this auction, you not only state it has a clean carfax several times, but the picture of the carfax ad is the main photo.
But on january 27th, you had express knowledge that the car was involved in an accident.
Isnt this exactly what you are "talking to an attorney about"? Because you state the dealership had knowledge (somehow) of an accident and diddnt disclose it? But you have PROOF from TESLA this vehicle was in an accident, and yet you are trying to push it off, several times, that it is an accident free car?
Well look at that. I hope you're prepared to be sued yourself. The timeline adds up. For good measure, I sent this entire thread to APX Auto Brokers as I feel there is quite a bit of libel and slander you've pushed here. Feel free to ask your pro-bono attorneys what your exposure is to be sued for that as well.
Good luck!
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Oh good so now we will have your personal info and I can sue you too. I stated I didn't know if it was in an accident or not
Once your personal info comes though in the legal process, I'll be sure to also leave a negative review for your company
I don't think tesla motors will be happy to hear a dealership using their forums to harass, threaten, and complicate tesla owners' lives when they were just looking for advice
Oh, look at that.
In your own auction, of your own autocheck, it states the car was listed AT AUTO AUCTION before APX Auto Brokers had it. But they were the original owner right?? @STS-134 where are you? Read the thread!
Lol! You're going to sue me now too? Dang it! Your ebay ad dated 1/31 says:
It was originally posted on CARFAX, which confirms that there are no accidents reported on this vehicle.
But your post on January 27th and paperwork on February 4th clearly state the vehicle was in an accident to the tail light and quarter panel.
You realize that's FRAUD right? Misrepresenting a vehicle as no accidents when you have dated proof it was in an accident? Oh boy. This is not looking good for you. Who should get banned?
You're going to leave a negative review for my company that you've never done business with?
Section 5 of the FTC Act 15 U.S. Code § 45 makes fake testimonials illegal. The FTC considers your review to be fake if it is not based on the experience of a real customer.
You are not a real customer. I have this saved. You want criminal charges now too? Jesus. How much further are you going to dig yourself in?
In post #52, OP said only APX had owned it. So something doesn't add up here.
If this is indeed the OP's listing, then the OP is lucky that no one bought it. As I said upthread:
"Unless the Buyer's reliance on such information is completely irrational or 'preposterous,' a buyer is entitled to rely on the representations of the other party and on the representations of the other party's agent without making an independent investigation or verification to discover the falsity of the representation."
If someone had bought it, this could have put the person who created the eBay listing in the same legal doo-doo that APX is in right now, if this was indeed the OP's listing.
Sure. If you don't know about the issues, that's one thing. If you know about them and deliberately try to cover them up, then there are likely additional penalties that apply. Although, given that nobody actually purchased the vehicle on this listing, no one was harmed and no one has standing to sue. As far as what the courts would look at in the particular case of OP vs. APX though, the existence of this listing is irrelevant, and has nothing to do with that case.
Truth is an absolute defense against libel and slander. Of course, it's up to the courts to look at the facts, figure out who is lying, and to assign blame (or not) for defamation.
Right I denied all offers and still own the vehicle. I don't intend to sell it or trade it in until after consulting lawyers because I don't know what I need to disclose since nothing was disclosed to me and I don't know if it was in an accident or how to disclose that without knowing the full facts.
I give up replying to them. They made fake accounts and are just harassing me at this point. They violated multiple tesla motos club forum rules and don't listen. They don't know what BBB is and that people can report mistreatment from their dealership/place of work even if they didn't buy anything from them
What did I lie about? And I can put up ads without selling to get a value on the vehicle. I didn't scam anyone.
If that's scamming then how's apx not scamming me?!
Good choice. If I were you, I'd hold onto the car, and the only way I'd sell right now it is with a notice that says something like "This vehicle is being sold for scrap (parts). Any additional value the buyer gets out of it, like transportation, are to be taken as a bonus. It's not guaranteed to ever drive another mile." That's the only way you can avoid putting yourself in potential legal jeopardy. Of course, I believe it likely IS still useful as a car, but you can't really be sure until you get all of the facts. And the last thing you need right now is another lawsuit to deal with, especially if it has you as the defendant instead of as the plaintiff.
trayloader
Member
Let me sum it up-
OP bought a "deal" he was hoping to "trade up" to the next man.
Somehow along the way he found out (maybe he knew from the start), that this car had an accident.
Then he decided to re-list the car, of course "naive" and on the edge of legality, clean, while in parallel he
CAME HERE AND GASLIGHTED THE COMMUNITY, LET ALONE POTENTIAL BUYERS.
What are you doing here? You whine and accuse your predecessors of the exact tactics You seem to be used to?
Raising hell and painting a bad image of Tesla per-se as if P85Ds are potential foul apples.
WTF
You deserve to be banned.
OP bought a "deal" he was hoping to "trade up" to the next man.
Somehow along the way he found out (maybe he knew from the start), that this car had an accident.
Then he decided to re-list the car, of course "naive" and on the edge of legality, clean, while in parallel he
CAME HERE AND GASLIGHTED THE COMMUNITY, LET ALONE POTENTIAL BUYERS.
What are you doing here? You whine and accuse your predecessors of the exact tactics You seem to be used to?
Raising hell and painting a bad image of Tesla per-se as if P85Ds are potential foul apples.
WTF
You deserve to be banned.
Huh? I literally asked for advice. I never said I was definitely selling it. I found out it was a rental/leased vehicle during the thread and eBay posting
I declined every offer I got for the vehicle and it's not listed for sale. How did I gaslight the community when I repeatedly stated I don't know if it was in an accident or not and at the time of the posting I didn't know that it was illegal to sell without disclosing the accident if it was in one until after the listings were posted
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trayloader
Member
You got what You paid for, as simple as that. It was a fair deal and I would´ve invested the 1700 Tesla quoted for.
But you cannot loose.
It was a rant and not seeking for help. Fog bomb.
I stop posting in this childish thread and hope the mods do their due dilligence.
Get a life and grow up. And leave the cat out of here.
over & out
But you cannot loose.
It was a rant and not seeking for help. Fog bomb.
I stop posting in this childish thread and hope the mods do their due dilligence.
Get a life and grow up. And leave the cat out of here.
over & out
You project a lot. I already stated I can't know if it's in an accident since the damage happened before I received the vehicle and it wasn't specifically disclosed to me before the sale, so the previous owner will have to confirm if it was in an accident.
I'm pretty sure I can sue you for libel defamation now that you published these defamation of character falsehoods about me to a 3rd party without my consent when your other post claims you sent this entire thread to apx. It sounds like you don't know what anti-SLAPP laws are either
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